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Syag,
thanks for your empathy. I was not put down, I always enjoy coming up with a good tirutz and a teachable moment. Hope that the gabbai learned the lesson and saved someone else from feeling down. Can you imagine if he would ask this of a ger?!the halakhic point is that you are not supposed to research yichus for an aliya. If someone is not a kohen/levi in shul, he is presumed to be isroel. Please correct me if I am off here. May be different from a kohen, as people might use this as a sign that the person is a kohen.
Common, really? so he was not even good at that? reminds me of a sevorah of a 100 years ago I heard of: some American Jews were suspicious of quality of the Torahs coming from Europe. Of course, Europeans would send worse sifrei to America – where else would they be able to sell those!?
so, it is a consumer fault, not only a producer …re: Bobover. I did not come to disagree! I just did not own a shtreimel – and could not afford it at a time! According to his nephew R Twersky, Bobover had a party line that cut his conversation off should his neighbors start theirs. It happened frequently, despite reminders. He would suddenly interrupt an intense conversation in the middle of the sentence, sigh, and say quietly, let’s go and remind them again.
ywnjudy> organizers of the event….most obvious which may be less talked about is: This is an immature, infantile generation, which doesn’t look before it leaps.
I don’t know whether we mean the same thing, but there is a direct explanation here – they went there against health regulation and advice of some gedolim. I am ok with generalizing to the sins of generation, but I don’t understand those who ponder about the even without considering most direct explanation (unless it is done in the context of not hurting people directly affected by the tragedy).
There was a call for a fast on front page here. Do many people plan to participate? There was no hint in the call that this calls to reflect on the behaviors that called the disaster.
RebE: ask your father and he will tell you, go to the zaida, my father and he will answer you.
teaching grandkids Torah gives a person olam haba .. why? the father can teach simply by example and by words. The kid will understand. The grandfather is too far away from grandkids in his experiences (do your grandkids always get your stories about Communist Hungary?). So, grandfather can’t just show and tell. So, he has to elevate the topic and explain the concept in general terms so that he and the grandkid have a common language. So, if the grandfather is able to learn like that, he gets olam haba.
what your Rebbe seem to have joked about is that in most cases there is no such direct transmission – kid asks father, who goes asks zeidi, and then explains to the grandkid. Sholom bayis, everyone does what they supposed to do, but no guarantee of higher learning and olam haba. Go speak to the grandkids directly. Well, RebE, you are talking to many of that generation here ..
Amil.
re: your points on frum women. Women working to support husbands learning is great if it works out for the family. Hope someone is somehow weighing the quality of learning with effect on the wife and children. Not sure where this is going, though. Are you saying that you would prefer to have more money going into third-party childcare in order to support those talmidei chachamim?I guess you can say that Hashem created the world for the sake of the Torah and then taxed the goyim to pay for childcare for little yidden while their father is learning… I would like to see a good source before agreeing, because there are a couple of thing that bother me here:
1) can we advocate something that is detrimental to society but good for a small group of us, even an important one?
2) if someone wants to learn, can he benefit from (and even advocate for) taxing other people to support his lifestyle? There are other, traditional, ways – live in poverty, sign up with a Zevulun, marry a rich girl, work for two hours a day, learn for eight hours after working for eight hours …
maybe you were leading somewhere else, then please clarify
Amil,
we were discussing overall policy in the country. I think it is a Jewish thing to strengthen families – whether for Jews or non-Jews. I do not doubt that many women would benefit from childcare support. My point was that Democratic policies consider increasing female workforce as a specific great thing, dismissing the value of mother staying with kids. For example, there are (I understand, never used them) some tax deductions for (legal) childcare expenses, but I can’t find any for parents doing it themselves. Maybe I am missing some – please let me know.I always felt a little sad when you fill out online taxes, get some credits for kids, and then you start seeing credits decreasing and then going away with all the income filled in. Like, why did I just lovingly filled out all the names and DOBs?! There is no reward for that in olam hazeh?!
When the credits suddenly survived after Trump tax reform (even at the expense of SALT), I called kids and showed them that Fed Gov now appreciates their value! I guess I should also appreciate Obama’s letting them stay dependent on us ad shesh veesrim ..
> aren’t voting laws the states’ jurisdiction and not federal?
not if you a liberal. American constitution is an unequitable product of slave-owners that prevents us from moving towards the happy future as fast as Cuba and USSR O’H.
Btw, can we do a show of hands? whose yeshiva taught enough of material to appreciate US federal system?
and everyone else’s searches too, so ywnjudy has a point
you may think of how you searchfor example,
“meron” patient injured hospital
or
“meron” patient condition hospitaltry “meron” “blood” victim to read uplifting stories about people donating blood …
use double quotes to mark words or sentences that “must be” in the response
RebE > as never asked, are you Jewish
n0 > We should not assume he is Jewish to let him marry another Jew.and this is how it supposed to be, as far as I know. RebE may look more Jewish than I do, as once ina while I run into gabbaim who mumble while walking – Kohen? (me – nodding no), Levi (no), Isroel?
As this last question (whether asked on purpose or without thinking) just is halakhically inappropriate, I would nod a little so that he might think I am again saying “no” and suddenly stops in his track and ponders implications. I then ask back – and why did you ask?
RebE, if you are a Kohen or a Levi, or wear a shtreimel, you may get a different treatment.
An example of the opposite, when I stayed with a Bobover friend for shabbos. When the Rebbe Z’L walked in and saw someone dressed differently, he ran to shake my hand before his followers.
n0mesorah – I don’t know whether we can read their psychos correctly. Again, take into account that Biden is more polished. He is a politician. That is all he ever did. He does not need to run after cameras and tweet, they respectfully come to him. Trump had to fight for the spotlight even when he was a president. Yes, he had personal tragedies. He needs to be respected for that. And yes, he is willing to say what is needed to get elected or achieve his other political goals.
One sign of who the person truly is – is what the person does when he has a free choice, that is he is not benefitting from what he says or does. That is why it was sad, but instructive, to hear Biden and others disparaging Trump’s vaccine efforts. He would not lose much by acknowledging what was done, but he did not. Well, maybe I underestimate what the left-wingers would say, I don’t know.
Another siman – look at the children = they follow parents and often lack skills to pretend like parents do. Biden’s 50% good, 50% bad. Happens. Trump seems to have at least one very bright, 2 reasonable good and active, and two seemingly pareve. The latter can not be by chance. The guy has to have some values. Or maybe some of his wives.
Another siman – what we do not know. I am amazed that all investigations did not damage Trump (so far). To be in NY real estate business and then have FBI, NYT and other 3-letter agencies after me for years – and nothing criminal so far, just minor infractions? Should be presumed a tzadik gamur until proven otherwise in the court of law. What would a similar effort show on Biden, given that he was not involved in (legal) business, who knows.
>> The tateh is the one who learns and davens.
how do you darshen “Shma beni mussar avicha, v’al titosh toras imecha”?
RebE> machloket between Magen Avrom v. Sma’s wife
Women in my family have no problem understanding the difference between nerot shabbos and yom tov. Maybe this is a good example where halakha makes sense according to education of the generation.
Hard question, worthy of Rabbi Yermiyahu’s chicken legs: if the husband is a direct male descendant of Magen Avrom and the wife is a direct female descendant of Sma’s wife – how does their daughter light? [wife obviously does according to her female masorah]
I am proposing the answer: she lights by her father when she is in his house out of respect (mother needs to also respect father), but follows her mother after she marries. Teiku if she divorces and comes back to her house.
Can we find a middle ground:
yes, women can fulfil themselves without engaging in pilpul. They frankly have more important things to do!
and yes, they now have opportunity and time (thanks to men who invented dishwashers, etc) to learn more and those who want can pursue it. My daughters heard most of the agadot, and many halakhot, that they overhear from my zoom yomi before in Jewish schools, they just organize them differently – into packs of instructions instead of philosophical ideas.does YWN have a economist on staff to verify postings 😕
>> During Trump’s 4 years there was inflation,
inflation was 2.1%, 1.9%, 2.3%, 1.2% with being 2% or slightly below is considered good.
>> real wages were stagnant
reached pre-carter levels for the first time, equal to SIX term of Clinton and Reagan taken together, with Obama thrown in for free, all in ONE term:
median earnings went
Trump: from 110 to 120 (with 1980 being 100). +10
for comparison:
Obama – from 107 to 108 +1
Bush II: from 104 to 107 +3
Clinton: 98 to 104 +6
Bush 1: 102 to 98 -4 (decline all the time, not just depression)
Reagan 98 to 101 +3 (flat, then up, then down)
the plot modestly stops mid-Carter, showing 104 to 98: -6
[using FRED Employed full time: Median usual weekly real earnings:LES1252881600Q]Exactly, Biden is copying Reagan indeed – Tear down this wall, comrade Obrador! He also took a VP who insulted him.
seriously, I saw articles saying that Biden indeed is copying Reagan’s _tactics_ – doing bidding of your base early while you can still do something. The difference is that Reagan came with an approach he was advocating for a long time, while Biden went from harsh prison sentences to equity, refusing to answer questions in between. If you send me examples of Reagan refusing to state his positions during debate, I’ll lookm more into that .. Ok, he misdirected from his age to his opponent youth and inexperience.
n0: Regarding the current pandemic, the chaver will be better off just by not mingling with all the unmasked amei ha’aretz.
yes, I think so too. It is just feels very uncomfortable in our times to consider a swath of Torah-observant Jewry to be in a such category. We are all feel close together being beseeched by outside forces and internal challenge from Reform, socialists, etc so that the classical idea of am haaertz sounds foreign. I think Gemora has dual feelings towards Am.H – we can rely on them doing certain things, we remedy demai, not fully reject it, the person who ate at R Yannai …
Mishna uses language “ein ledavar sof” – at some point, you can’t worry about secondary and tertiary effects. So, when you compare COVID and flu, you should come up with some numbers and degrees of separation and maybe you can then see differences.
CTLawyer, I am not trying to criticize the learned lady, just trying to analyze the situation:
shul is giving her an honor to teach. Why refuse? More importantly, why laugh? I agree with Syag.Teaching Torah should not be for people who are otherwise not employed. She should have taken on the challenge and bill them accordingly. Take them to beis din if they dont pay. Oops, this is probably not correct. If I learned it correctly, the beis din would have to come to the lady’s house instead of requiring her to show up.
This would have been a teachable moment for everyone!
the story I liked about Biden & religion (hope it is true, and not lifted from Kinnock): a nun made fun of his stuttering. His mother came to school and kicked the nun’s bonnet off suggesting she does not do it any more. This might explain, if not excuse, his expected stifling of religious schools from all his handouts.
RebE > Biden is more religious than Trunp.
He does often sound sincerely religious. But you have to remember that Biden spent his life in politics, focusing on messaging and scheming. He can recite slogans smoothly and knows which segments of population he addresses. Trump is focused on action. Was there anything religious in his strengthening of Yerushalaim, or was it purely political calculation?
We have midrashim about various rulers – Alexander, Cyrus, and worse ones, relating to Hashem in some way, especially when their actions affect Jews and Eretz Israel.
When thinking about that, you probably need to think about people when they are at their best, not their worst. When Trump is for his own ego, or when Biden pretends that he couldn’t find vaccines under the table in the oval office, there is nothing religious there.
Ctlawyer, it was wrong for her to laugh, she should have simply billed her rate. I am sure the shul would appreciate Torah enough for a measly 400. The halakha is you can charge for missing work, not for teaching, and also if you hire someone without asking for a price, you will have to pay the reasonable amount.
One Rav in CT in fact claimed tongue in cheek that he went to law school do that he can ask for a higher salary as a Rav for missing workN0, I am not calling to 19th century idea that Torah can be reduced to health regulations, but that a haver holding by taharah will likely avoid a lot of unhealthy contact. Halakha takes medical facts into consideration: we feed cohen godol before yk so that he reduces bathroom trips…
Ys, maybe people respect medicine. When a doctor tells a person to keep a diet or have medicine, compliance is high. But somehow math doesn’t get same respect. So individuals make quick computation about invisible danger based on an article headline and can’t imagine what else is there. R Twersky said that one needs to learn physiology to appreciate miracles of Hashem,
I would add statistics to that. After all, a miracle is a low probability event, so to appreciate them, one needs at least one graduate course on order statisticsAmil, analysis coming out of administration and related economists is that we “lost” decades of progress with women now staying home more because schools are remote
Proposed remedies are to subsidize childcare. Women being at home with children is considered a bad thing..
This ignores the fact that at least 30 percent of children now stay at home even where schools are open. Wsj had an article that kids missed kindergarten, might be ruined for life, and a significant portion of comments protesting and suggesting that socializing and learning with the family may be also good.How do we understand connection between laws of Tumah and transmission?
There are things that do not fit or go beyond, but there are lots of things in halakha that are good for health. Consider number of people coming to Yerushalaim from different places. This is perfect transmission center if no precautions are taken. Maybe things like eating Pesach by family, natilat yadayim, keeping kodesh separated by several degreees, are all pro-health. Maybe even Pesach Sheni is an incentive for people not to cheat and come b’Tumah?And here are some numbers on civilian labor participation rate (LPR) for men from 20 years old to put current events in perspective:
men:
Bush II: 76.6 to 75.9 in 2008, falling to 75.3 in Jan 2009
[-0.2% per year]
Obama: slowly going down to 71.7 (-4%) in 2016, consistently over whole 8 years, not just after recession
[-0.5% per year]
Trump: staying same until Feb 2020, -3% in 2 months March/April, +1% in 2 months, then stable
[-0.5% per year even with COVID]
Biden: same for 3 monthsSummary: nobody made things better in last 20 years
Bush decreased LPR by 1%, 2008 recession by 1%, Obama by 4%, COVID by 2%,Maybe it would be more precise to take men of prime working age, say, 30 to 50 and do it separately by race and education
One month does not make it a trend and seasons are indeed out of sync. At the same time, I heard people making predictions about words that will be used and predictions are, worryingly, coming true:
“unexpectedly” (about unemployment rate)
“modest” (about expected inflation, Sec Yellen)
so, this is worryingalso, I suggest we look at _male_ unemployment rate and labor participation rate (that includes people not looking for jobs). Biden administration feels compelled to make all women work – providing payments for childcare but, seemingly, not by mothers themselves. I think we here would agree that those women who would like to care of their own children should be supported to do that rather than forcing them to “contribute to economy” instead.
n0, I agree on most points you are mentioning. Some comments:
Lack of education in Pale: it was very attractive to get education. If you are a doctor or a merchant at certain level, you were even allowed to live in central cities. Whom do you think R Yitzele _Peterburger_ was a Rav of? (in truth, the only thing he liked there – streets are clean so it is possible to think Torah while walking there). At that time, education correlated heavily with conversion and assimilation.
Value of education now: it is well possible to go study gender studies and then appeal to the government to forgive the debt. As any tool, it has to be used correctly. A lot of professions ensure comfortable life-long middle class employment – engineering, software, accounting, office management, nursing, therapists, technicians … Are there dangers here? I think they are less than in previous generation.. We have Jewish colleges in NY and NJ, we have online degrees. Maybe we need consultants within the community who can guide students towards right approaches. Of course, lack of necessary skills at high school level may be a problem.
Businesses in the community: I am all for that. We do need more Jewish business interacting with each other. If our ethical/business values are strong, all Jews (and non-Jews) would love to sign up Jewish accountants with arbitration according to the local beit din. Trump said that, so some people see value… but when work opportunities in the community are limited, it is not healthy. A lot of people see chinuch as an only job venue. This seems to conform with halakha – make teachers numerous and poor but provide best value for teaching children. Except, the key halakhic instrument is missing – unrestricted competition between teachers. Instead, we mostly have schools that “sell” teachers as packages and partition the market between each other by hashkafos. So, we end up with (some) unworthy teachers who are not happy themselves and are not helpful to kids. Many of them would have been great accountants.
Earning a living – It is not problem to be poor and learn Torah whole day. I don’t know – is it popular? Make your shabbat like chol – and Rabbi Akiva knew what it means to be poor … How many people skip shalosh seudos in order not to rely on charity? I think being an erliche Yid (old fashion value, I know) precludes relying on taking money from others, whether Jews or state.
n0mesorah > very few people in our communities that had a who cares attitude from the beginning. People acclimated along the way
interesting observation. I concluded the opposite. Excluding first several weeks, maybe, after that I saw that people made a quick initial decision and stuck with it throughout. Maybe communities are different. Mine consists of multiple subgroups coming from different places, and each reacted differently and mostly consistently. I tried first to be helpful without being intrusive, coming early before minyan opening windows, but as COVBID increased and behavior stopped, I gave up.
>> you are killing this thread.
point well taken, sorry to ruin your travel plans… But I hope that we come up with some positive lessons from the pandemic, but I see that most people are just eager to get back to the routine (this is relevance to the thread). For some reason, Hashem disrupted our routine. Maybe your answer is to appreciate greater what you had previously – simple enjoyment of flying in a crowded airplane and feeling brotherhood with the humanity. Ok, this is something. Wonder whether people will ditch other lessons, like beauty of spending time with their children, and rush back to their previous routine. There are overall trends saying that many, not all, people prefer changed work routine. Hope there are similar trends in the Jewish community, leading us to further strengths.
MadeAliyah, I think Yserbius is making a point that flu transmission is symptomatic (there is also existing immunity – thus adults being more protected). So, flu transmission wuold go dramatically down were the people/children stay home when visibly sick. Maybe you are right and after this pandemic, there will be more understanding or even shaming of people who contribute to flu pandemics. Or maybe more chumros in natilas yadaim …
We might be in general exposed to a lot of stuff that we are not paying attention to. When my older kids went to school first time for K (in a small school), being solely at home previously, the whole family was continuously sick with multiple symptoms for 6 months from getting the whole load in one shot.
>> who cares mentality is starting to settle in
My question going forward: with so many people who had “who cares mentality” throughout pandemic, is it acceptable to stereotype people?
It is a difficult question, and I am not asking it lightly. I had previously no problem learning or davening with any kind of Jews, as long as davening is halakhically acceptable, and even wider variety for learning. But I don’t see how this question can be avoided except by closing eyes.
Going forward, I would not want to daven with people who were not careful or retzihah. I don’t know about my own prayer capacity, but I am immodest enough to think that my chances are not enhanced by davening with possible/potential murderers, but maybe even decreased for the sin of associating with such people. With learning, I am OK with them being in same class, but I have a problem with teachers – I would prefer not to waste time and potentially learn bad Torah as they obviously missed something in learning.
So, can we accept evidence from this site, videos from funerals and shuls, personal testimonies about groups of people for the purposes of avoiding them? That is, I am not making any judgment about them, just avoiding. Is this same as not doing business or shiduch with someone questionable without accepting lashon hara as true?
TLIK > There is no halacha that a boy should be dependent long term on anyone
> pay far more attention to … money related issuesmaybe these issues are connected? If the man is not capable (taught) to earn a living, then he has to rely on the shver. This might have been reasonable in the 19th century Pale, but, from basic principles, most people should be able to have a decent job or business and be able to learn without relying on family, community, or government welfare.
Could it be an unintentional result of the success? Keeping community apart from society undoubtfully helped to keep Jewish community intact through European haskalah, American melting pot, and Israeli hiloniyut. But the closed communities lost a lot of basic Jewish values while trying to survive. This is akin to side effect of medicine.
>> she can be a Rebbetzin before getting married as Vashti argued that she was a queen before marrying Achashverus.
indeed, Esther became Mordechai’s Rebbe, and her husband was not just not a Rav or Rebetzin, but mamash a goy.
I agree – there is no reason to check references. I never checked them for any of my wives, and they all had wonderful personalities.
We had a discussion earlier whether Warp Speed was important for vaccine succes. Hard to argue alternative history. Now, Curevac vaccine is in the news and provides an answer: it seems to be another German pioneer company that was looking at RNA vaccines 7-10 years before BionTech Moderna. They are finishing Phase 3 in Mid-May, 6 months behind others. Here are events according to the NYT service article:
– they first got … $15 mln of funding .. considerable amount of cash was not there.
– March 2020: Trump tries to pay them $1 BLN. CEO resigns … (sounds like he was interested)
– June 2020: Germany invests $360 mln (3x less of Trump’s initial offer)
note that German government already knew amount of investment in US and Phizer/Moderan already starting phase 3
– Dec 2020: starts Phase 3 trial …It is clear from this narrative that American business approach mattered, we can’t fully differentiate between role of warp speed, general R&D approach, business initiative, presumably each played a role.
Of course, Biden administration found their “niche” – rather than assisting those great companies, taking their IP by force and give it away. Praying that this will produce good results.
Maybe it is mida k’neged mida for Pfizer CEO for, possibly, delyaing phase 3 results until after the elections. Thought he was smart, but Biden is smarter!
>> Under Reagan. we had the highest deficit at that time,
RebE, please define “we”. I am sure you were managing. _Government_ had deficit because they returned money to the people and spent some to affect the world. What did we get for that money? We freed (a large part of) the world from Communism, taking away major supplier of sonei israel in the middle east; leading to ~ 2 mln Jews to leaving USSR; freeing whole Eastern Europe. All these millions of freed people surely increased demand eventually!
yutorah as a list of different speakers on the daf, many are fast, but maybe some fit your requirements
businesshalacha has a list of shiurimMaybe, we should have candidates signing their plans under oath. While Mr. Biden publicly denied progressive plans in the debates, now Bidenistas point out that all these policies were somewhere on the website, so why are we surprised…
>> Isn’t this something that young adults do for themselves?
We are surrounded by te society where people generally can not figure it out for themselves, so this is something that Jewish community is rightly focusing on. Head in a class on giur, that there is a subgroup of non-Jewish women who convert because they see the beauty of Jewish attitude towards families.
RebE >> Supply side economics, voodoo economics, has been shown that it does not work.
I think a lot of proofs are heavy on rhetoric. First, a strawman (or an exaggerated claim of pro-suppliers): reducing taxes will increase collected taxes (quickly). Then, you can show that this is rarely true. this is, of course, is a crude logic of a roman tax-collector – how much can I farm from people?
In truth, the first question is simply – would society be more productive with less taxes. According to wiki, Greg Mankiw _criticizes_ suppliers saying – ” “Tax cuts rarely pay for themselves… about one-third of the cost of a typical tax cut is recouped with faster economic growth”
In plain Yinglish, this means that if government returns $100 to the taxpayers, taxpayers will generate $133 from it. Or, if gov takes $100, it leads to a collective loss of $33 ….
Given that government spends almost 40% of US GDP, we are talking serious money lost here …Can you suggest _any_ policy that can help poor without throwing away 1/3 of it? (and 1/3 is average, the worst of policies are even less efficient)
then, it should be implemented before doing what we are doing now.PS to conclude, this may depend on the status of both speaker and listener. If speaker can be assured that listener will understand him correctly, then he can say it.
Maybe what people are bothered here is a slight for the human tragedy in favor of a theological explanation. As in Yoma 23, where one Kohen stubs another while competing for a job, and the father of the dying one says – look, he is still alive, so if you take the knife out now, it will be tahor. Next question – did they take tahora very seriously, or did tey take murder too lightly? A similar question may be asked for someone using a korbon comparison – the speaker may be trying to elevate, but he runs a risk of sounding callous.
if you can download a file of the shiur, many players will allow you changing the speed of playing it. I think VLC does
> Why is the inequality between the rich and the poor constantly growing?
maybe it seems so because we all are becoming richer and also have more access to information?
also, you may be looking at most recent events:
Indeed, According to ourworld of data income inequality, income of top 1% in UK was 20% of GDP in 1918, went slowly down to 5% in 1980 and back to 15% in 2005, fell to 12% in 2009. In US, it was 20% in 1920s, went down to 11% in 1977, and went up to 20% in 80s and 90s and stays there. Other former British countries show similar pattern in the 20s century with the bottom at 1980.
France, Japan, Spain, Denmark peaked in 1920s at 20-25%, went down to 5-10% in 1940 and stayed there. I wonder how much inequality decreased after USSR disintegrated and communists started owning a lot of things openly, instead of keeping it all secretly.what about longer history? Gini index in UK stayed between 40 and 50 between 1700 and 1910, lowered to 25 in 1977 and went up to 35 in 1995 and stayed there
a quick search shows estimates that Augustus owned 20% of Roman Empire, Genghis Khan and Chinese emperor Shenzong owned 30% of world GDP.
so, things are much better now.
RebE >> Some states care and others don’t. what should the Federal government do?
by Reb Adam Smith, free enterprise is good by definition as every exchange is considered beneficial for both sides. If you destroy the freedom premise, you destroy this underlying guarantee of success.
except the most egregious cases, many Americans can – and do – vote with their feet. So, you can be in a state that taxes and distributes profits and provides free health care. There will be some moral hazard though – businesses will move to other states and people who want services will move to yours. So, you may want to establish some residency requirements – no welfare for first 3 years in a state. Most of people in your state will be happy with your policies and you will be re-elected with 90% of votes. Those who don’t like it will move to another state.
Alternatively, you can try to take over federal government and force your love onto 50% of population that disagrees with you.
I can understand the taavah (and gaavah) that socialists and progressives had 100 years ago when they wanted to immediately save the world by taking over countries. But, by now, you should be humble enough to know that not every good-sounding idea works, so why not try it in some states?
I think the same idea works for Jews, as a nation. We are to show other nations that with Torah, we can build a great society, both respecting working people and helping poor, so that they can learn and emulate us וְאָֽמְר֗וּ רַ֚ק עַם־חָכָ֣ם וְנָב֔וֹן הַגּ֥וֹי הַגָּד֖וֹל הַזֶּֽה:
paticipant, look up Radak on naarim ketanim from Yericho confronting Elisha
Maybe exact level of fairness is unsolvable. How about some basic principles:
– we get government involved only when there is no free enterprise solution
– we get federal gov involved only when this issue is not solvable by states
– when we get gov involved, we try not to destroy free enterprise
– we solve problems of higher priority first. Save people before penguins. Deal with commies before killing oil productions.I think we can agree on a lot of things as long as we liit ourselves to such basic limitations
>> If these communities are so welcoming to newly observant outsiders, I definitely will give them a look before I settle down.
I understood the story that they presented themselves as regular members of the community moving from another country, not newly observant. Maybe I misunderstood.
participant – lack of headwear: a lot of hair – Eliahu, lack of hair – Elisha, eaten by bears – member of trade union.
>> a’ you should listen to a random person
> random person in the Yeshiva World coffee room is not the gadolMi hu haham? halomed mikol adam, that’s YWN! And – as we learned in another thread – haham gadol mirav …(ve adif minavi)
on a more serious note: if your parents are not giving you their opinion – maybe they don’t want to push you one way or another. Maybe ask them, or grandparents/uncles, more open-ended questions – what does it mean to be ready/ not ready in your circles? be able to support family? graduate degree? emotionally stable? become tired of learning? when did people in your family get married and how they feel about it later?