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Avira > Rav Tendler was also not a talmid of MTJ – he was in YU.
You are continue disparaging R Moshe. Now, he did not even read the shidduch resume. Could you please stop.
> In April, the U.S. Department of Energy announced that it has awarded contracts for all of the initial 30 million barrels it put up for sale as part of President Biden’s historic Strategic Petroleum Reserve Release.
Very creative. Every Dem’s solution (to the problems they created) is to spend down something. Why not encourage people to work/ to produce? Why not encourage domestic oil & gas production at the same time as all green energy and deal with Russia first and global warming second?
ujm, we discussed this shidduch story here. In the 2nd hand version I heard, possibly she approached him for “help with chemistry”, if I remember correctly. This does not contradict tht he was coming there for a reason, of course 🙂 Apparently, after they already met, R Moshe approached his Beit din haver R Tendler Senior and he approached the son. My deduction was that Miss Feinstein hinted that to her father somehow …
Whatever it is, Avira who does not seem have researched this topic seems to be stuck in the stira that R Tendler is a Zionist and R Moshe is not, therefore some great tragedy might have occurred. Is it maybe possible that R Moshe was OK with a S-I-L that holds different opinions from the Rav himself?!
jackk, thanks for the updates! Breathtaking. I hope the gingermint was obtained and DNA analysis done. Do keep us updated if something else important happens.
Syag > You seem to have this point of gravitating towards rabbis who step over the line
This might be a bias of the discussion here. Not many people here disrespect Rashi, so I don’t really need to comment on this. And when I quote, say, R Twersky, you don’t object, so you don’t notice that. When I quote someone I know personally, I have a fair mixture of those who have a more traditional or more modern derech. For your benefit, I mention person’s derech sometimes.
My personal derech is to learn Torah from anyone who knows it well, whatever his derech is. And I am offended, in turn, by people who disparage someone just because they happen to disagree with them. I saw enough of Talmidei Chachamim on all sides of politics who do not behave like this.
This is very enlightening threat: economy is a complicated subject and it is possible to come up with lots of technical explanations that support you – look at oil production, disregarding economy growth, etc. You may be basing your position on reading some biased sources that come up with these funny numbers. Given complexities, look at the big picture: Dems discourage oil industry in multiple ways. Thus, when prices are so high, it is partially their fault. You cam justifiably claim that it was a rational policy to, say, close all coal & gas in Germany and it “only” fell apart because of unpredictable Russians. Merkel still refuses to admit her fault, saying “at least I tried”. The answer is simple: if you put priority on possible near-term dangers, you will do all possible to mitigate possible harm. If you don’t, it is your fault. It is probably easier to see on the above German case that is being ridiculous, but situation in US is similar.
> Moetzes itself chooses which new Rabbonim to invite i
Moetzes selects moetzes, but they are gedolim because they have followers. Moetzes does not have a mechanism to enforce their opinions other than moral authority.
As Reagan zogt: recession is when your neighbor loses his job, depression – when you lose it, and recovery – when Jimmy Carter loses his. He was right then, he is right now.
We do have an option of either recession (if rates will be raised high) or inflation (if not), or none if they will be raised “just right”, or both …. The actual result is in part depends on controls that Feds and others apply, so a prediction is based on your understanding of their actions. Larry Summers brings a good analogy: a car that started skidding may fall off left shoulder or right, depending which way the wheel will be turned in panic. Presumably, the more inflation goes up, the more Fed will be trying, so the chances of ending with recession are higher than getting Weimar-type hyperinflation.
Avira, exactly, you have a proof that R Moshe raised great children who presumably chose great spouses. People, even gedolim, can disagree. Stop bad-mouthing those who happen not to agree with you.
RebE, indeed Yiftach is your answer: it is not who learns the most, or runs a bigger tisch, but who can solve the problems of that generation
Instead of direct call that requires good connection, use voice messages such as WhatsApp
This is repeated ridiculous motzi shem ra on r Moshe. You are claiming that r Moshe got himself an inappropriate chatan out of all numerous humble students he had. You are disparaging either his own judgment or his parental abilities. Given that his sons became hoshuve rabonim, I don’t see a reason to think his daughter is different.
Your assessment is a vote in an indirect election system. One vote can be wrong, but overall will of people will be better: if they are not neviim, they are bnei neviim
For dem defenders: Biden said that he will shut down oli industry. Now, you are saying government has no role, it is all markets. So, either he, and you, lied then, or you are lying now.
The government has a role in setting up fair markets and when it doesn’t, things go wrong.
Yabia > Who decides who is and isn’t s Gadol?
You do: you ask a shaila of your Rav, and your Rav when he is not sure asks another Rav; people at the top of this shailararchy are the poskim. You are always free to ask a different Rav, or your Rav can ask a different one.
Note that your questions also determine the subject that the poskim are writing about – l’havdil the same way as the topic author in CR determines what the rest are kibittzing about
jackk, thanks for doing the holy work of watching it for us and summarizing here the most mesmerizing episodes. Truly appreciate it!
Moses Montefiore was aware of the ban, and tried to abide by it – he was in a fully closed box, carried around by the Muslims. He was still pelted in the best knesset and said that he won’t do it again. This was in 1855, at the end Crimean war with British having an upper hand. in 1856, Ottomans formally allowed Temple Visits (with individually paid for tickets). Baron Rotschild went up several times despite being admonished by Rabbis, including R Kook. Theodore Hertzl did not go in respect to the ban.
I understand there are other issues here beyond the machloket:
1) where is prohibited area. It seems that modern archaeology can rule out some areas not being in the mikdash. Just make sure those who make determination are not motivated by politics. I did not see charedi poskim addressing this issue, do they? maybe they do not think that current archeology reached definite conclusions.
2) political implications aggravating not just the locals, but a billion of Muslims worldwide. This seems the main factor for the negative psak … Position to ignore that billion is definitely political and , while understandable, is very risky and should not be in hands of some crazies who can’t even get to Knesset on their own.
n0, I agree. But what kind of community are you talking about – are these working parents with limited Jewish education, or are the parents yeshiva-educated themselves?
If the former, then maybe continuing educating parents should be a priority. As they say “a father who tells his son to learn [rather than learning himself] will raise a son who will be telling his son to learn”
In the latter, then something is wrong with the educational system.
TLIK, interesting idea of changing Chazon Ish priorities oveer time. This makes sense. This also implies that the strategy would change further with time and differ depending what kind of people you are talking about. Community is more complicated now than in 1950.
One Rav after making Aliya was immediately asked – which party he is for (at the time when several hareidi parties were budding). He replied – party of Moshe Rabeinu.
Avira > you’ve seen rabbi sacks go through gemara sugyos
I was not sure whether I should put the reference, I should have heeded Chofetz Chaim’s psak not to praise someone publicly, unless he is a universally recognized tzadik, as there will always be someone finding fault… But I figure out we are doing it here for the sake of learning.
To answer your question, I never met R Sacks Z’L. I did not search videos for him learning Gemora sugyos, because I was interested in other issues that he covers, so I can’t comment. As a reference, not as a proof, I heard from very traditional Rabonim commenting that R Sacks had an amazing ability to connect to modern intellectuals (These Rabbis did not comment on his knowledge of Rishonim).
Your concern would be valid if I limit myself to learning R Sacks essays exclusively, but I did not. I can assure you that I read R Avigdor Miller Z’L also (and listened on tape borrowed from kollel before we had divrei Torah online).
n0 > entirety of our chinuch system needs a lot more investment – and not just financial
we should acknowledge that we now have more investments than probably ever in history, whether financial in some schools, in obtaining gov funding, or in numbers in other schools. This is a tremendous success of post-WW2 communities. I think further progress should be more in re-directing our efforts to increasing quality.
your observations are correct as of last yea. it is a fact that Poland is now fully invested in supporting Ukraine and Hungary is the most pro-Nazi. Here is a quote from British press. If you have recent info that contradicts it, please provide.
“We cannot understand the logic of profiting from the war, from the blood and sacrifice,” one Polish official told reporters ahead of the most recent EU summit, when the temporary reprieve for pipeline oil was agreed. At a small protest outside the Hungarian embassy in Warsaw on Saturday, protesters depicted blood flowing out of a mock oil pipeline.
Gefilte: Then, years down the line, he doesn’t has such a passion anymore, but decided to stay in kollel as a means of supporting himself
I wonder whether it is time to use modern means to follow up on these questions – surveys, assessments, third party certification, “ratemykollel”. In olden times, learners or poor who reqyire help would be directly observed by benefactors. Rambam says that we feed a visiting poor person in an emergency, but otherwise check out first whether he is a trickster. In modern times, there are so many opportunities to misuse funds, people should not be put in the “lifnei ever” position. For example, giving some funds and hoping they will learn ..
As Gemora says, the best way to spend a sudden inheritance is to buy thin glass (that will break), silk clothes (that will rip) and not supervise the workers. As Torah is our nahala, and learning is avodah, the same should apply. Or, to quote a non-Jewish tzadik talking to a non-Jewish Rushah: “trust but verify”.
I am somewhat confused by the discussion of contradictions with Hilchot Shmita. This says that every person with a _giving_ ruach should be like Shevet Levi, dedicating himself to the education of Jewish people, and gives a brocha that such a man will be zoche to get what is sufficient for him like to Leviim and Kohanim. In the previous paragraph, he says Leviim did not have land, just towns, no mention of them living of payments. Note that “ruach nedava” may be opposite of taking, as expounded by R Dessler in “giving and taking” essay
By looking at the whole sefer, seems like Rambam objects to taking money for learning or teaching (Oral Torah) to keep learning pure and not use it as a source of income. Seems like he objects to direct payment for learning, not generic “tzedoka”, but Rema in YD 246:21 says – someone who is not working and supporting himself from tzedoka, so in his minds , tzedoka is same as paying. Rema further gives 2 famous kulos – first for the Rav of the city, so that people would not look down at him, and some even further – to accept willing donations for learning (this would not include Israeli taxes that are not volunteered). He then goes back to say that despite the accepted kulos, those who are able to work and learn, it is midat hasidut and present from Hashem to be able to earn an honest living and learn.
Maybe the reason Rambam does not mention tzedoka option but only payment for Torah, because he addresses it in metanot aniim, saying that everyone should try working, even as Talmid Chacham or a Kohen. He also says that it is asur to get non-Jewish welfare in public before using Jewish sources.
Overall, judging by multitudes of later sources that say this Rambam is difficult to hold by, there is a definite license to not fully follow this for those below midat hasidut. Some of Rambam’s warnings can be observed in practice in each generation to see how much one can contradict Rambam’s advice – is the Torah becoming bizayon in the eyes of multitudes? does this lead students becoming listim or doing other avonos?
this may depend on the particular community, not just esim – do simple folks see your community as takers or respect your learning? does your community force others to support or donors line up at the door?
excellent posts above on approaching multiple-choice. I would suggest do online tests that help you determine what areas you need to work on. I am not sure about Regents, but Khan Academy has SATs and similar tests with such diagnostics.
> Who says that the Lithuanian approach is appropriate bichlal?
Litvishe approach went thru rigorous testing. The fact that Jewish learning flourished in a very small and poor country over centuries stands for something. I am with you that this was never intended as a mass movment and that, for example, Sephardi Torah should be seen as inferior.
amom,
I understand your question and an excellent suggestion.
To answer your question – everyone cares about Learning and people in kollel are our nation’s front line. A similar situation is that a machlokes about one building in Yerushalaim gets more interest in the world than a big war in Africa. So, you should be proud that people care about your family activities, whether supporting or criticizing or giving you suggestions. I don’t think you would prefer an alternative when nobody cares. As a 19th century author writes: if the Czar understood the value of learning, he would put a soldier near every Jew. [not for protection, but] if a Jew gets distracted, the solider will kick him with the bayonet.As to work & learn, I think you are right. It seems that working professionally one day a week should be enough for humble living, leaving 5 days a week to learn. Do we know anyone like that. I am told that some Persians used to do that – they’ll travel to remote areas for several weeks, buy exotic things there, come back, sell them abroad, and then learn the rest of the year.
Rabbi Lord Sacks Z’L (who prolonged his life by a year beyond what the doctors could do, by pre-recording a year of Divrei Torah). He is a baki of connecting sugyot to world philosophy and history.
maybe this will help: Rambam may be looking at the same issue from different criteria. For example, in one place recommends to sleep 8 hours and wake up at sunrise, and in another – that real learning happens during night. This works together only during winter at most latitudes. So, one advise is for those who want to be healthy, another – those who want to be learned and you can’t always achieve both.
So, in this case, if you are optimizing learning than listen to hilchos of learning. The other one may be according to R Leff.
big? bochur > You dont see anything wrong with learning Gemora from women?
Rav Yehuda laughs off some arrogant request for learning comparing him with Beruriah and her great ability to learn a lot from multiple teachers. He is not recommending to learn from Beruriah, but it is at least a testimony that multiple teachers would either admit Beruriah into their class, or teach her one-on-one (with presumably the Rebetzin sitting and knitting nearby).
If you want to apply this sugiya to modern times, you will be better off learning opinions of, say, R Moshe Feinstein and his relatives – a cousin and a son-in-law. You can also peruse CR.
I agree on need for attention to individual students. One of my kids’ Rebbe irked me with his written feedback “he is getting used to my teaching method”. But, practically speaking, public education requires simple and cheap means and it is often better to have the best Rebbe give a class to hundreds of students than 100 mediocre ones to teach 1-on-1. Also, discussing “yeshivos” in general is as useful as lumping Columbia and Lower Podunk U as “universities”.
3 morning Torah brochos correspond to 3 stages – early exciting one, long middle one, and the final one when you mastered it. So, definitely learning small amount of material b’yiun should happen first, so that the student knows the depth, and then you apply same, or maybe a little less, depth to get broad knowledge. Then, you may want to become a master in some limited area that fits your character, whether it is karbonos, business, kashrus – at least to the level of being able to contribute to CR without being flamed down.
> Hungary has made great friendships with Poland
I don;t think this is true any more. Poland is cutting off Hungary due to Orban’s pro-rus-nazi policies. poland shows that it is possible to be against western-European liberalism and still make sense. Maybe the difference is that Hungary seems to be currently centered around one man, while Poland has healthy politics, so they are not getting to dark corners (at least right now).
RebE > for me it does not give a good taste when Orban is so close to them.
You are seconding your famous neighbor – Von Neumann. When he was a kid, he lived several months under Communist insurrection and then escaped and helped most of his family escape right before WW2 (and was in Germany for some time before). He stayed focused on both Nazi and Soviet threats as a result, even tried to join US Army to do more math work on munitions (he was rejected because he failed an exam on discipline and re-did it several weeks after he was not eligible by age anymore)
Is shomer peshayim Hashem discussed in S’A or other sources, or is it just an asmahta for irresponsible behavior? I hope the former, and I have a bunch of questions, any sources on this?
1) who is pashut enough. For some reason, a lot of humble people are claiming an honor when it excuses them some simple inconvenience, while same people would ask for a shishi otherwise.
2) Is pashut about intellectual abilities or separate by area of knowledge? If R Kamenetsky claimed it, even if for a minute, reluctant to quit smoking, maybe the latter
3) We learn from Avimelech who was not polite to Avraham starting conversation by asking about Sarah. If he were to claim he did not learn derech eretz, the answer is – Avraham was teaching about it and he had a chance to enroll. So, if someone has intellectual ability, he might not have an excuse to not find out how cholesterol works or whatever. Maybe one can claim that he is too busy with learning and chesed.
4) Does this work when the danger also affects others, such as dangerous driving, coughing, ? Can I be pashut on behave of others? Do they also have to be pashut,, or can I endanger life of professor or a Talmid Chacham I am driving, or who might be driving near me? What if I will be protected but they will not and I become a murderer? Or will my protection convers them like a comprehensive insurance policy?
Avira > how dangerous things that are done by a large amount of people are not actually dangerous – this is based on shomer pesayim Hashem.
Maybe this is an explanation: why is Hashem protects peshayim and, presumably, does not protect people who know better? The fact that knowledgeable people are not protected means that the danger is present and presumably a smart person would have to avoid it. BUT, how would a simple person know a difference between a true and a false danger (false positives). He can trust his senses on obvious dangers when he sees a tiger or a car damaging a victim, but what about remote dangers where connection between cause and effect are not obvious. So, if you tell a simpleton to beware these, he’ll fall prey to all kind of superstitions, rumors, environmental propaganda. His life will be consumed in avoiding black cats and plastics. He will be advised to spend his time doing maasim tovim. If every climate protester would simply bring food to the neighboring elderly, the world be better, and cooler, of. What do you think?
Just don’t take him to CatsKills!
Most likely he is a regular Katz – Cohen Tzedek.
n0, apologize, it is late tonight for me to go into the Rambam (even as the Rambam advises that best learning is at night, but who pasken like Rambam !?) – but my understanding was that Rambam thinks it is a disgrace for the Torah scholar to rely on charity, that is making other people to work instead of him. Obviously, this means that he himself thinks that his learning is more important than learning or any other mitzvos by other people, and he also causes other people to begrudge him and belittle Torah scholars.
I understand Brisker Rav brings these 2 Rambams, and concludes that 1st Rambam is for “general audience” and the 2nd for “yehidim” like Rashbi (and, presumably, Briskers).
Interestingly, Mishna Berurah takes an _opposite_ approach saying that we are too weak to work and learn, so if given just one choice, we should learn. chofetz Chaim himself was selling needles first and his seforim later on. I am not sure whether he has a position on using government funds, I don’t think Russian or Polish governments paid for Radin yeshiva.
Also, to paraphrase Mishna Berurah, as he conjectures that Rambam “at his times” would agree to learning for money, I am thinking that Mishna Berurah would agree “in our times” to work for a day a week and then learn for the rest while living modestly.
Seeing spiritual causes does not take away a need to respond to physical world. Gemora is full of discussions what does or might happen in various cases and they respect knowledge of agriculture, science, etc. It is not a routine answer in Gemora to say – stop worrying about it, let Hashem take care of it.
Avira, an interesting point re: species. But as we established that R Hirsh is not infallible, we would need a better source. Say Rhinoceri (sp?) are big enough to be seen on satellite imagery. It would not be impossible to search whole earth images for them (if not found – should we presume that they live in someone’s basement?).
Even within the camp that supports using Zionist money for Torah learning, Rav Schach advised against accepting 100% funding from Begin government, warning that there will be a time when someone like Lieberman will “want his money back” and the system needs to be able to survive that. Why “frum” people do not listen to gedolim, I don’t know.
But the expression may be a hidden brocha, like this is a brocha of being like fish, or better to be like reed than like cedar (Yevamos). Mushrooms grow everywhere, often stay together, require water (Torah) and not a lot of government support.
Syag,
it is not just my interpretation. It is a minority opinion, but with Rambam, RebE, and a majority opinion in Bavli on “my side” v. Rashbi and a lot of modern poskim, we should give both sides some respectful hearing.reach out to Oorah and sign up for their summer camp ASAP, you’ll enjoy it and hopefully find friends there.
Vot dezision? Throw the bums out.
People need to make sure they can handle what they choose. I often see working people (doctors, lawyers, and other simple professions) who come both to hashkoma minyan and at 9pm to learn at kollel, and also there are people who live holy lives of learning and teaching and whose heads are worrying about where they can earn money to support their families. I don’t know percentages, but one should evaluate his own (and family) tolerances and be realistic in their lifestyle choices.
In theory, in modern world, one can spend 4 years to learn a good profession and then work 1 day a week (or 2 hours a day, if you prefer) and have a great learning life. I never met anyone following such an obviously correct way. R Lebowitz says that one YU student suggested a similar idea – be a lawyer full time until 40 and then retire, and Rav advised against that.
> “A person’s brain isn’t fully developed until he’s 25, cut him some slack
This is not an insult, or a joke, but a medical fact. your frontal cortex continues developing executive functions, and the more you organize your thoughts, the better it will develop! (this is one of the reasons of draft being for younger men who are mature physically, but do not value themselves yet).
It would be an insult to say the opposite that your brain will not develop further ….
PS I also want to express my appreciation to the mods, who are always great at censoring others and are also the sole readers of the majority of my posts!
Syag > You must really love money or just be soo hung up on these thriving kollelites
I oresume this is for me. You are right – I am really concerned for the honor of Torah. I have no ill will to those who thrive in kollel. As they say, “my best friends went to kollel” and I learned a lot from my local Roshei kollel and some of the youngelites.
n0 > The first passage may seem like studying instead of working is idleness.
I don’t understand this as “idleness”, but as not being proper to charge for it. Does Rambam paskens somewhere that a rich person can not sit and learn!? In fact, he himself learned while he was supported by his brother, and went “into professions” when he had to.