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AAQ.. Good points but perhaps its my clumsy use of terminology. A rav or askan may not be “doing an averah” nor will he always be aware that the type of behavior described by common saychel in his OP and others posters may have caused pain or stress to the aveilim (or in the other context, embarrassed baaeli simcha). Neither the OP nor subsequent posters in this thread suggested that this happens on a “regular basis” but this kind of stuff DOES happen. I would imagine that the immediate remedy is generally to focus on providing support and comfort for the aveilim and not to confront or give musar to the offender.
Save the Halloween stuff for Purim…..
There is an old Texas expression, “all hat, no cattle” that was meant to disparage those faux cowboys who tried to use a wide-brimmed Stetson to establish their credentials. I don’t think that was ever an issue within the frum tzibur since the size of Borselinos or Shteimlach was never highly correlated with lamdus or gadlus.
Nisht: I promise not to refer to you as a “chashuvah poster”.
And yes, I’ve unfortunately experienced exactly what I described. And no, its no disrespect to the vast majority of rabbonin and askanim who conduct themselves with the utmost sensitivity to the occasion to observe that unfortuantely, as the OP noted, there are as surprising number who don’t. A ben torah (chashuvah or not) can sometimes act like a jerk just as a poishete yid can act with great sensitivity, charm and respect. Hopefully, you will only know from simchas so you will never have to deal with shivahs and aveilim.“Between us Drs, I have no idea who Joe Rogan, Gupta, CNN are exactly, and what it has to do with the price of cholent in China”
Perfect inverse relationship.
Chinese hospitalizations in September 2021 from COVID are DOWN over 88 percent compared with September 2020…..While I don’t have hard data, I suspect if you asked Rebbitzen Dini Freundlich who runs Dini’s restaurant in Beijing (and who I can personally attest makes an outstanding chulent) she will tell you her costs have skyrocketed in the past year. (P.S. she is the wife of Reb Shimon Fruendlich, the chabad shaliach in Beijing) .So, someone just realized that even the most “chashuvah” rabbonim and askanim can sometimes act like jerks? It happens all the time and makes you wonder why they are referenced as “chashuvah” or have other various honorifics imputed to them. I have been to levayahs where the hesped is more about the person giving the hesped than the niftar, shidduchin where the mesader kidushin stumbles over the brachos because he was “mesamach” choson v’kallah before the festivities officially began. That’s life. It happens all to frequently. Not much you can do other than find ways to quietly intervene and lessen the impact of such boorish behavior on the the aveilim, baalei Simcha etc.
Ask all the horses whose quality of life have been immeasurably improved with this miracle deworming drug. No real side effects other than more fleas. All those interested should line up at their local vet.
“we are not to waste our money or forego opportunities that are allowed according to halacha, especially if in doing so no chilul hashem would arise”
No clear what you are saying. Do you think its ok to “steal’ IP from a goy or defraud the government if those actions are not per se recognized as “ganavah” under halacha and there is no liklihood of being caught so therefore “no chilul hashem”. Or are you saying exactly the opposite which I think is what you meant (i.e. ganevah is ganevah).
YouTube music has heimishe singers?
UJM: Depends on your definition of “heimeshe”.
We just happened to download a few Yitchak Mayer Helfgot and Avram Fried singles we couldn’t find anywhere else….If your looking for Streisand and Neil Diamond, even better.
Reb E: I would trade “style” for 1/10 of your substance. You consistently amaze with the scope and depth of your torah knowledge
“Why is Mishpacha magazine allowed?”
YO: I haven’t seen an edition of Mishpacha in a while but my recollection is that the stuff they advertise doesn’t rate high on the Gashmiyus Meter.Reb E: Thank you for the honor but in the immortal words of R’ (General) William Tecumseh Sherman when he was being considered as a possible Republican candidate for president in 1884, he declined, saying, “I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if selected.”
“have been, and for the most part, continue to be the only real media”
Syag: Selective and misleading quotes are part of what you seem to be lamenting but please read my post again. You failed to include my predicate which was to say that TO MANY AMERICANS, [the MSM] have been, and for the most part, continue to be the only real media..” Thats absolutly true, now matter how misguided or naive you think they may be. There are still tens of millions of Americans who watch/listen/read to the MSM news outlets (aka NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, WSJ, NYT etc) notwithstanding your obvious emoji skills.
Sorry, but Wolf Blitzer didn’t invent “alternative facts” (aka millions of Muslim terrorists disguised as Mexican murderers and rapists carrying Gucci luggage streaming over the border). ALL the news networks now exercise selective coverage of facts (or ignore them completely) based on what they think will hype their relatively low ratings. Fox no longer make a pretense of being “fair and balanced” and MSNBC’s notion of the latter is inviting a lefty to “balance” an even more extreme lefty. At least with YWN, I come away with a smile, sometimes a laugh and always with a new torah thought from a few really, really smart posters.
JackK: To many Americans, what the Trumkopfs refer to as the “MSM” and “Fake News have been, and for the most part, continue to be the only real media. Fox went all in for Trump, than had a falling out after they called Arizona for Biden and for a brief period in 2020 moved a bit more towards the middle of the political spectrum. Earlier this year, faced with ratings losses to OAN and NewsMAx, Murdoch seems to have pivoted back to MAGAvelt. OAN and NewsMax are totally bizarre, with the latter alternating between the “Pillow Guy” fantasies and live coverage of the Cyber Ninjas doing their imitation of an election “audit” with the soundtrack of the Village People “Macho Man” playing in the background.
YWN news stories are generally substantive and reasonably factual. My objection has always been to the rewriting of the headlines and stock photos used to grab attention. But again, its their website and they can format and editorialize however they want.“”You can’t take a page out of Joseph’s book and just throw things on people’s heads in the name of holiness”
Azoy…so the Gadol Ha’trolls, aka “Joseph”, has been resurrected as Avirah. Who would’ve guessed….
RR: If the FAA and military, after several decades, still can’t figure them out, than its clear that we need to consider bizarre conspiracy theories. While everything else these days seems to be in short supply, fortunately, there is no shortage of the latter (aka MTG’s well thought out theory about Yiddeshe martians with lasers circling over the Western states deliberately starting forest fires).
Jackk: Even Spicer subsequently acknowledged he lied about the inaugural crowd size after saying he was included anyone in yenavelt who might have seen it on the internet. A day later, the highly respected KellyAnne Conway insisted that Trump and his spokesman were relying upon “alternative facts”.
The YWN new site pages are designed to attract and “engage” a generally frum and politically conservative readership across demographics that have some liklihood of clicking through to the paid advertising interspersed on those pages. They do not hold themselves out as independent journalists. There is always some “spin” placed on a news headline cloned from the wire services or originated independently from third-party sources. They’ve been around for 12 years, notwithstanding multiple new market entrants, so they are obviously doing something right.What does “Yeshiva World” mean?
Its the name given for an “Internet advertising services” business which filed a trademark application with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office back in 2008. This trademark is owned by Yeshiva World LLC domiciled in Suffern, NY. The USPTO website notes that “the foreign wording in the [trade]mark translates into English as seminary”.
In simple terms, 13 years ago it was a name selected for an advertising supported internet news site, nothing more or less.“Sorry to take the fun out of things, but that’s just how things are.
YSerbius123: Actually, thanks for a very informative post. I would also recommend anyone interested in the subject R’ Lamm’s essay which I read years ago and found to be an engaging overview of the issues, most of which I had never thought about.
R’ Lamm, Z’l was niftar about a year ago but he wrote that article in some RCA publication over 50 years ago, just prior to Neil Armstrong’s telling Houston, “The Eagle has Landed” (aka the the first Apollo 11 moon landing). Not much changed for several decades and suddenly within the past several years space travel and extraterrestrial life are back in vogue. Most of what he wrote about then has great relevance today.Not surprising. Same outcome in similar comparative studies for other religious groups. One recent study showed Evangelical Christians were generally “happier”, “less stressed” etc. than their non-evangelical Christian brethren with common theme that they left all their issues in the hands of “G-d” who would ultimately resolve their issues.
Apparently, the lead spaceship sent out 12 exploratory spacecraft ( (their own version of the Meraglim) to assess whether there was intelligent life on Earth. Unfortunately, they all ended up landing by some freak coincidence in Red States and several in close proximity to MAGA rallies. Needless to say, their report back was negative and now they are in stationary geosynchronous orbit waiting for futher directives from the gadol h’martians (or whatever title he goes by). To them, its one big “Covfefe” (hamayvin yavin).
UJM’s childish (and repetitive) rants aside, YWN clearly has an editorial perspective and is not bashful about expressing it across the site. I’ve previously kvetched about the selection of the often bizarre stock photos about the subject of a particular news story where those photos have no nexus with the substance of the story and are clearly designed to be unflattering. However, its the absolute right of media/website ownership to express their views on people or events in whatever manner they choose just as its our right to visit other sites which align more closely with our own views (although I don’t find that type of echo chamber especially helpful or entertaining).
In the end, I am reminded of what Benjamin Franklin once said: “Never argue with anyone who buys [virtual] ink by the barrel.”“In this neck of the woods, going off topic or on a tangent is par for the course…”
Memo to file: Its much easier to go OT if you wait until post 51 so you are on a “new page” continuing the thread and don’t have the overhang of 49 prior relevant posts which sort of make your OT comments look really tangential
The ehrliche poskim can debate the issue until z’man moishiach but the reality is that more girls today ARE learning talmud than ever before both in school and increasingly. in one of many regular online weekly learning sessions and podcasts. The pro/con arguments summarized above by damoshe are very informative but ultimately aren’t going to dissuade a baas yisroel who wants to learn and has found an appropriate venue.
We have been through multiple threads where it has been established that many gadolei yisroel in their generations also had acquired significant secular credentials. Gadlus in daas torah and secular scholarship are not mutually exclusive and in many cases, as you note, quite complimentary.
From a purely personal perspective, I frequently gain considerably more insight into daas torah here in the CR from some incredibly knowledgeable posters on divrei torah than in many more formal shiiurim and learning venues. Having acknowledged their gadlus in daas torah, I feel an obligation to occasionally enlighten and/or inform their views on contemporary political matters or at least offer a differing perspective than the usual echo chamber on some issues.
Certainly, everyone (except the big time resident Misnagdim)will acknowledge that time expended in having the Rebbe memorialized in the form of a Google Doodle cannot in any way be characterized as bitul torah. (As an alternative team-building effort for those misnagdim with time on their hands, consider supporting the effort by Gov. Noam in South Dakota to have the profile of a mysterious orange blob added to Mt. Rushmore).
Taken to its illogical extreme, any time spent beyond that necessary to engage in essential life-supporting functions (presumably including earning a parnassah) is bitul torah. Just my own hypothesis, but I would suspect that most posters would not automatically be shteiging in the beis medrash were it not for their addiction to the CR.
“Also there’s crazy censorship in YWN?
Its called “MODERATION”. Thats why the MODS earn the big bucks.
On a serious note, I’m surprised at times the degree of tolerance exhibited for quite extreme statements (at both ends of the spectrum) which make a useful point but might have been framed more eloquently.Same here! Seriously though it is hard to keep everything out and still allow room for disagreement. Sometimes things get through that shouldn’t, and sometimes we hope a responsible response will be even more effective than an edit.
Whether it was implicit in original postings, or simply clarified in later postings, its encouraging to hear that a wife in a demonstrably physically abusive relationship can readily obtain a get from the beis din, notwithstanding here abuser’s objections. Unfortunately, the situation materially changes when the alleged abuse is verbal or emotional and the husband objects. Absent black and blue marks, welts, swollen eyes etc. the victim of non-physical abuse must elicit testimony from third-parties to overcome her abusers objections to offering a get.
Trump would actually have had a better argument if he had retained legitimate election experts and lawyers to press his claims. Instead, he went forward with the biggest show and clowns ever assembled in the history of American election litigation starting with Guiliani, Ellis and that world-renowned dog-pillow expert, Mike Lindell to lead the charge. Even otherwise sympathetic Trump judges, including SCOTUS, threw them out of court on both substantive and standing grounds. In depositions, Crazy Rudy claimed he “knew nothing” about election laws in the states where he appeared to claim fraud and also said he had no obligation to undertake even minimal diligence or verification of the allegations he included in his filings. As to Lindell, the guy seems in desperate need of professional intervention (along with his chevra in the Cyber Ninjas of Arizona fame)
Edited
Is there a yiddeshe version of “Groundhog Day”??
Jenna Ellis was back on OAN this weekend to reveal that she and Mike Lindell now have “irrefutable” evidence of election fraud that will result in the five key swing states revoking their certification of the Biden win and Congress, in turn, will inovke the 25th Amendment to restore Trump to office prior to 2024.
And no, I’m not creative enough to make up this kind of meshugaas that sadly is believed by millions of the Trumpkopfs.Philospher: Well said. Contrary to the apparent belief of some trollsters, conforming to halacha and being a mentch (even as defined by the social norms of a frum community) are not mutually exclusive. Again, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
“The entire YWN is also bittul Torah…”
Except of course watching movies/videos of archived “asefas” with chashuvah rabbonim screaming that the internet (including YWN and other social media sites) are l’chatchilah ganz assur, much less bitul Torah
“Ujm, will you also sell your underage daughter to whomever you want because you could do so according to halacha?”
There is consistent theme repeated in multiple treads by a small group of posters who seem determined to pontificate on the supremacy of halacha over logic, secular law, common sense and contemporary societal norms.
The generic response typically converges on the counter-question of whether “just because you arguably CAN do something per halacha”, that doesn’t make such actions either obligatory, moral in a larger sense or otherwise reflect on your “power” to harm others. In a world where increasing numbers of frum young women are gaining advanced degrees so they can earn a parnassah for their families and in many cases allow their husband to learn part or full time, it is mindless to keep invoking the notion that all her earnings accrue to the husband absent the conditions noted above regarding a mutual consent for the husband to forego his obligation to support the family etc. (unless of course, your only motive is to see how long it takes for someone to rise to your troll).“the large majority of frum Yidden are Yirei Shamayim”
Yes. But that does not mean at perhaps the most emotionally stressful time of their lives when they feel that their own well-being and and that of their children is at risk, frum yidden will act rationally and strictly in accordance with the technical requirements of halacha. I’m not sure anyone is suggesting that “the majority” of frum divorces, end up in contentious/bitter secular court proceedings. However, in cases of wholly-inequitable proposals based on the financial history of that relationship (not that infrequent as more women work outside the home as the primary or supplemental income earner) or where there has been any history of verbal/phsyical abuse, don’t expect otherwise “yirai shamayim” to act rationally. Sadly, the frequency of contested outcomes is higher than you seem willing to accept. Further, the statistics from EY you cite to may not be comparable to those in the US and UK where there is much easier access to secular courts to redress perceived inequities).
But since the large majority of frum Yidden have a chazaka of being Yirei Shamayim, the last type of unfortunate situation should be a distinct minority of divorces. But nevertheless an option in the toolbox of Butei Dinim, should it be necessary.
The limited available data I’ve seen and my own anecdotal experience do not support the assertion that the vast majority of divorces in the frum tzibur involve two parties with equal bargaining power and resources willingly submitting themselves to a final adjudication by a beis din and subsequently willing to submit the psak din to a secular court in a settlement context. Nor have you supported your assertion that in 50 percent of cases, it is the woman who is making “unreasonable” demands of the husband or otherwise seeking use the secular courts to “destroy” their him. The halacha is what it is and is not the issue being debated.
UJM: I’ve done a reasonably comprehensive search of the Rabbaniut website (the gov.IL URL followed by “chief_rabbinate_of_Israel” sublinks) and there is NO posted reference to any statement, study, or estimate of any such statistic. Perhaps you might provide the date or the sublink (since we can’t post full URLs) that might lead to this statistic. Tks
Based on his prior comments I suspect the women in UJM’s circle are among those 95 percent of followers of one of the most well known and iconic fashion designers of the modern era who just coincidentally happens to be a musmach of the Yeshiva of Flatbush….(As we know, UJM is the common acronym for Uninformed Jewish Male)
Perhaps the New York Elections Board should simply refuse to certify the election results next month under the provisions of Sectio3 of the Election Law and instead declare the office vacant and leave it up to the state legislature to designate an “Acting Mayor” and sort out what comes next. Never has NYC faced such unattractive choices in a mayoral election (but that reflects the same poor choices we are presented with in most state and federal elections in the past several election cycles). I personally think that Adams is the better of two really bad choices in terms of managing the city going forward.
“This same mecho’oh against men for withholding should also address the women who withhold resolution. And the statistics are alarmingly close to 50-50. So we need not to make generalizations”
Most would agree that each case is unique and we should “avoid generalizations”. However, you make an even more important point that is new to me that “the statistics” prove that women obstruct resolution in roughly 50 percent of contested divorce cases. Could you provide the source of those “statistics” or the name of the author(s), government agency or organization who published those results (since you cannot post a link). Thanks.
Just coincidence but I have seen this Hashgacha
symbolOn prepackaged salads and fruit from California and the southwest. Presumably, they are not machmir onSmall insects. 🕷🕷“is this a serious post??”
Perhaps, if the OP was located in Kentucky or Tennessee and and was having a panic attack that every shayna punim in town would be committed before his son showed some sign of interest in girls beyond his second cousinSyag: Gut voch and I will leave it with a mutual cringe. No reason to aggravate the Mods so soon after Havdalah.
CA: Donnelly is a very agressive prosecutor who will go after Kaminsky on the failed NYS bail reform law. Even though Kaminsky belatedly became a ba’al tshuvah on the issue and voted in favor of changes last year giving judges more discretion to jail repeat offenders, the law is still very unpopular on Long Island and his initial support will hurt him badly, even among Dems.
ADD: My typo….TDS not TSD….the latter of course being the Technical Support Department, more commonly known in most companies as the “Help Desk”.
“If you want to extort me and take money just because goyishe law says you’re entitled to it (even though she didn’t work for it at all, and even if she was working her wages go to her husband…”
Yasher koach…true enlightenment cloaked in daas torah.
TSD ranks only second to Covid as the major affliction to a large percentage of our society. It strikes w/o warning, is manifest with a variety of symptons, and the large percentage of victims seem to be concentrated in certain zip codes. In the NYC area, for example, the highest infection rates are reported in Riverdale, the upper West Side of Manhattan, and slivers of 5T and the Jersey Suburbs. I’ve heard there are various Stage 3 clinical trials in progress for “conversion therapies” but so far not a positive outlook for a long-term cure.
ADA: Tshuvah for TSD?? Its rosh chodesh mar chevshan, not Adar