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“the large majority of frum Yidden are Yirei Shamayim”
Yes. But that does not mean at perhaps the most emotionally stressful time of their lives when they feel that their own well-being and and that of their children is at risk, frum yidden will act rationally and strictly in accordance with the technical requirements of halacha. I’m not sure anyone is suggesting that “the majority” of frum divorces, end up in contentious/bitter secular court proceedings. However, in cases of wholly-inequitable proposals based on the financial history of that relationship (not that infrequent as more women work outside the home as the primary or supplemental income earner) or where there has been any history of verbal/phsyical abuse, don’t expect otherwise “yirai shamayim” to act rationally. Sadly, the frequency of contested outcomes is higher than you seem willing to accept. Further, the statistics from EY you cite to may not be comparable to those in the US and UK where there is much easier access to secular courts to redress perceived inequities).
But since the large majority of frum Yidden have a chazaka of being Yirei Shamayim, the last type of unfortunate situation should be a distinct minority of divorces. But nevertheless an option in the toolbox of Butei Dinim, should it be necessary.
The limited available data I’ve seen and my own anecdotal experience do not support the assertion that the vast majority of divorces in the frum tzibur involve two parties with equal bargaining power and resources willingly submitting themselves to a final adjudication by a beis din and subsequently willing to submit the psak din to a secular court in a settlement context. Nor have you supported your assertion that in 50 percent of cases, it is the woman who is making “unreasonable” demands of the husband or otherwise seeking use the secular courts to “destroy” their him. The halacha is what it is and is not the issue being debated.
UJM: I’ve done a reasonably comprehensive search of the Rabbaniut website (the gov.IL URL followed by “chief_rabbinate_of_Israel” sublinks) and there is NO posted reference to any statement, study, or estimate of any such statistic. Perhaps you might provide the date or the sublink (since we can’t post full URLs) that might lead to this statistic. Tks
Based on his prior comments I suspect the women in UJM’s circle are among those 95 percent of followers of one of the most well known and iconic fashion designers of the modern era who just coincidentally happens to be a musmach of the Yeshiva of Flatbush….(As we know, UJM is the common acronym for Uninformed Jewish Male)
Perhaps the New York Elections Board should simply refuse to certify the election results next month under the provisions of Sectio3 of the Election Law and instead declare the office vacant and leave it up to the state legislature to designate an “Acting Mayor” and sort out what comes next. Never has NYC faced such unattractive choices in a mayoral election (but that reflects the same poor choices we are presented with in most state and federal elections in the past several election cycles). I personally think that Adams is the better of two really bad choices in terms of managing the city going forward.
“This same mecho’oh against men for withholding should also address the women who withhold resolution. And the statistics are alarmingly close to 50-50. So we need not to make generalizations”
Most would agree that each case is unique and we should “avoid generalizations”. However, you make an even more important point that is new to me that “the statistics” prove that women obstruct resolution in roughly 50 percent of contested divorce cases. Could you provide the source of those “statistics” or the name of the author(s), government agency or organization who published those results (since you cannot post a link). Thanks.
Just coincidence but I have seen this Hashgacha
symbolOn prepackaged salads and fruit from California and the southwest. Presumably, they are not machmir onSmall insects. 🕷🕷“is this a serious post??”
Perhaps, if the OP was located in Kentucky or Tennessee and and was having a panic attack that every shayna punim in town would be committed before his son showed some sign of interest in girls beyond his second cousinSyag: Gut voch and I will leave it with a mutual cringe. No reason to aggravate the Mods so soon after Havdalah.
CA: Donnelly is a very agressive prosecutor who will go after Kaminsky on the failed NYS bail reform law. Even though Kaminsky belatedly became a ba’al tshuvah on the issue and voted in favor of changes last year giving judges more discretion to jail repeat offenders, the law is still very unpopular on Long Island and his initial support will hurt him badly, even among Dems.
ADD: My typo….TDS not TSD….the latter of course being the Technical Support Department, more commonly known in most companies as the “Help Desk”.
“If you want to extort me and take money just because goyishe law says you’re entitled to it (even though she didn’t work for it at all, and even if she was working her wages go to her husband…”
Yasher koach…true enlightenment cloaked in daas torah.
TSD ranks only second to Covid as the major affliction to a large percentage of our society. It strikes w/o warning, is manifest with a variety of symptons, and the large percentage of victims seem to be concentrated in certain zip codes. In the NYC area, for example, the highest infection rates are reported in Riverdale, the upper West Side of Manhattan, and slivers of 5T and the Jersey Suburbs. I’ve heard there are various Stage 3 clinical trials in progress for “conversion therapies” but so far not a positive outlook for a long-term cure.
ADA: Tshuvah for TSD?? Its rosh chodesh mar chevshan, not Adar
CS: We used to have regular provocations by the gadol h’trolls by the name of Joseph post here regularly and there was never any reticence to respond given the extremely well articulated and infuriating substance of his assertions.
UJM: If the welfare reform proposals of the most conservative members of Congress were adopted, federal welfare payments (housing/SNAP (aka “food stamps) tax credits etc. would be consolidated into an income-based block grant program with work requirements and caps for the number of “additional dependents” that can be added to each family unit until they have established their ability to reduce “long-term dependency”. While these proposal (which are unlikely to ever be adopted) were crudely targeting long-held stereotypes of generational welfare recipients in the minority community, there is no “carve-out” for ehrliche yidden in certain communities which actually have the highest welfare dependency ratios in New York State.
The issue of taxpayer subsidies to certain political subdivisions in NYS has been a political third rail for decades as these communities vote in a block. I’m not sure it would affect “wide swaths” of yidden but the notion of delaying the start of a family or linking your family’s growth to your ability to pay for their food, school, housing etc. is a highly sensitiive issue and goes well beyond “shidduchim” at ANY age.
This is not a thread on welfare reform policy so I’ll stop here.Steady decline in the number of “progressive”, “MO”, “liberal-Dem” “apikorsim” posting here over the past year or two….getting very lonely. Several possible theories have been postulated but most likely scenario is that most have been sidelined by long-term chronic effects of TDS. There still are no vaccines or therapeutic drugs authorized by the FDA that have shown efficacy and safety.
CS: Correct for a change. One of the most progressive U.S. states, Massachusetts, authorizes marriages for boys at 14 YO and for girls at 12 YO.
Flyer: “one CUP sugar”??? Is this some Ungarisher recipe promoted by the Diabetes Society? Could you also share your recipe for Gefilte Fish
Its sad that even within shloshim, there cannot be a “quiet period” where there is some deference to the niftar and the truth squad can wait to “set the record straight”. Rav Tendler, A’h, was a great talmid chacham who achieved greatness in secular matters and contributed much to klal yisroel. Some of his positions were indeed controversial but in all cases were well informed, well reasoned and well documented.
If 95% of the kids are all wearing the “SAME brown koplech”, maybe that guy isn’t such an “idiot” (assuming he/she has found a way to monetize his/her fashionista theme.
Sorry, but “Paris” is no longer where the “fashion-conscious” younger generation gets its inspiration. For today’s hipsters, the runways of Milan, Tokyo, Seoul and even NYC (Bryant Park Show outside the NYPL) are where the new trends are quickly identified and copied in knockoffs that show up in discount stores and online retailers within weeks. Even in the frum neighborhoods, you may see certain colors and accessories featured in these shows adopted within the confines what is deemed tziniusdik. Even frum kids want to be “cool” while not standing out or violating the unwritten dress codes of their yeshivos or BYs.
AAQ: Thanks so much for sharing these fascinating insights about the Rav, A’H and his relationship with his shver. At a time when our gadolim and poskim are being asked to opine on increasingly complex questions on the intersection of science and halacha, having a Rav so fluent in BOTH was certainly a net positive, although not w/o occasional controversy.
My reading is that she is worried about being excluded entirely based on her background. She says she is “more frum” and and ISO a “more-yeshivish” type guy but not clear she is looking for a 24×7 shteiger or something a bit more in the middle.
But whats the difference? My only point is not to worry that some will arbitrarily dismiss her entirely because of the transition part rather than being in a strictly frum family from day 1.While you state that you’ve transitioned from MO to a bit more of a yeshivish hashkafah, you still sound as if you’ve retained some individuality and associated desire to find someone who is comfortable with your background. Thus, any guy who would exclude you entirely from consideration based on a superficial resume is unlikely to be someone you would have wanted to be with anyway. Retain you independent thinking and decision making and ultimately you will find your soulmate. Much hatzlacha.
“The Midrash explains that when one bores a hole under his seat. he effects everyone in the boat.
Totally agree, even if everyone in the boat is wearing a PFD. However, there are exceptions when bowling (boating??) in Kiamesha Lake (the topic of this thread) since boring 3 holes in the ball is generally a prerequisite to success in rolling the ball down the lane (Lake??) and knocking over the pins. I understand the mashal to a boat but not sure how it applies to the matter at hand.Arrogance and “Hyoocirsy” have become the hallmarks of BOTH parties and on any given day or issue, one will spike the meter more than the other but over time, I would submit it evens out. The sudden and seemingly silent abdication of 100 years of Republican party principles and philosophy to a narcissistic self-indulgent leadership wrapped in neo-facist populism and nationalism (aka MAGA) certain rises to the level of the mindless and internally inconsistent “socialist” hyperbole of the rejuvenated “progressive” wing of the Democratic Party. Trying to score either side on the arrogance and hyoocrisy meters on any given day is a fools’ errand. As I’ve maintained over and over, the sensible middle of the American body politic is on life-support with a negative outlook for long-term recovery.
Harav: A toevah firetruck wouldn’t get too far in certain neighborhoods so there would likely be a much greater loss of life and property
Reb E: Why do so many of your postings have the following small print below:
This reply was modified 59 minutes ago by YW Moderator-29 👨💻.
This reply was modified 52 minutes ago by Reb Eliezer.Would those 136 missing comments be restored if the thread title was changed to “Barack Obama: Ohev Yisroel” or would that result in the AI software used for screening posts going into meltdown?
Syag: Now that surprises me but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. I’ll translate the punchline when we meet in Gan Eden.
Note to file: Some of the best jokes, even from the frum velt, still require a degree of rewording to satisfy local CR editorial standards. Perhaps not always as funny but better than another thread on vaccines, TDS or the latest Eidah Hafganos.
“just looking at one guy/////You have the chutzpah to speak of a Rebbe that way and then complain about how people speak of yours? That’s your chinuch?’
Syag: Lighten up. I don’t think Nochum in any way meant to be disrespectful. That is just how some communicate in the abstract. And obviously he is expressing HIS own opinion and experience which may not be nearly the same or as extensive as yours. I understood his point as a simple one which I also share. For younger folks, a Fabrengen is more interactive, casual, perhaps more music and potentially moe spiritually uplifting than a Tish where there is more of “lecture” style of communication and chinuch with less interaction and might even feel like an extension of the a seder at the yeshiva or kollel. Again, your experience may have been exactly the opposite.
MB10….Baltimore also has a Litvish kollel in case being m’gayer is an option
Can we just stipulate that Chassidish rabbonim are bigger fashionistas than their Litvish counterparts.
There is no food to eat in Gan Eden??? No Thursday night chulent, no mozti shabbos pizza? bubkis?? Than why should we struggle to be shomrei torah umitzvos….sounds more like gehonom
“marriages are a not a thing in Gan Eden…”
Says who?? Most guys won’t be able to tie their shoes w/o varbeshe direction and a large percentage would starve to death the first week
It takes years to develop the trolling proficiency exemplified here in the CR by some of our “senior” posters. At the outset, I would reject the notion that most of these problematic posters are bored, post-pubescent yungerleit who tune out of the morning seder to publish some outlandish bubba meisa or rhetorical question to aggravate the rest of us. Second, the level of daas torah and secular scholarship exemplified by posters on both sides of most issues discussed here generally, although not always, only comes with years of life experience and study. That leaves a few hard-core posters who seem to blindly throw out political and halachic hyperbole about Trump, misogeny, anti-vax pseudo science etc and wait (hopefully in vain) for an impassioned response. The latter group I suspect are in the 18-30 yo bracket.
The big mystery to me, and perhaps others, are the personal profiles of the MODs who exhibit wisdom, grace, patience beyond their youthful exuberance but simultaneously in possession of an eagle eye ability to immediately spot and nuke inappropriate innuendo.Aside from AAQ’s rather obvious point, even if you could find someone willing to engage at that level of compensation, what you pay for is more likely than not, what you will get.
“Whats the difference between Passaic and Baltimore?”
180 miles and 3.5 hours of driving time
Passaic is roughly 20 miles (30-40 minutes driving time) from 770
Baltimore is about 200 miles and 4 hours driving time from 770. I’d also guess that Baltimore is more like Lakewood in terms of Litvish versus Chassidish.
If some of the prior postings are correct and the husband-wife relationship from olam hazeh is broken, will there be a NEW SHIDDUCH CRISIS in olam haboh or will the maalachim also function as shadchanim and assure all the women in Gan Eden find a new beschert. I guess that all depends on whether or not a greater percentage of women make it to Gan Eden then men.
Last time I checked, Passaic would not be considered OOT by any definition, unless you are operating under a somewhat parochial assumption that the United States is an island off the coast of Brooklyn.
“The whole shampoo industry is a scam..”
Not if you carefully followed the instructions on the shampoo bottle.
1. Wash
2. Shampoo
3. Rinse
4. Repeat
You need to follow ALL 4 steps, and most stop after no. 3For the latest and greatest, consider the new Samsung Galaxy Flip3. It is virtually indestructible and gives you easy access to hundreds of apps from glatt kosher to total treifus with multiple filtering options. And the 5G version is your for less than $1500…a bargain!
Easier to “network” with your chavrusah at a Fabrengin, typically better music and easier access to the food and spirits.
“the main New York popcorn importer for New York is on a pig farm”
Gevalt alert, code red!!!!
Why is this being hidden by the media??? Who knows what else might be smuggled into New York through a chazer farm w/o being thoroughly vetted by a reputable hashgacha.“The requirements that the knees be covered at all times in public…. isn’t anyone’s “vision of Tznius”; it is an absolute obligation.”
Actually it is someone’s vision, and a distorted one at that, in multiple cases we have read about in recent years, including here on YWN, where misguided zealots endow themselves with enforcement authority and have physically and verbally abused women who most of us would agree are meeting commonly accepted tzinius standards based on their vision of a more rigorous standard. Most frum women actually go beyond the minimum standard and when visiting another community with more rigorous standards, seek to conform with “minhag hamokom”. For some, that may not be enough. Harassment of even young girls standing outside of a BY or walking in the park by these self-appointed tzinius vigilantes are becoming all too common .
Syag: Your reading intention in to my comments which are NOT implied. Narrow point that objective halachic standards are increasingly distorted and expanded beyond intention and behaviors that manifest that subjective and vigilante type behavior are being normalized.
P.S. I’ve never said that “an inch less” than halacha is “good enough”. Good enough for whom??? I have said we shouldn’t marginalize those of our brothers and sisters whose observance may not be 100 percent but rather seek to provide positive incentives for them to keep growing in their yiddeshkeit, but ultimately its a personal decision.” tell him that Torah is actually very very easy to keep…”
Perhaps at a fairly superficial level. Obviously, if it was so easy, we wouldn’t have that many of our brethren going OTD. For some its can be a real challenge and thats what the OP is all about.