Forum Replies Created
Reb Eliezer, I am concerned with your own country, but if I focus on it to much I might end up needing Prozac, so I focus on the states instead. Weird, I know, but it works.
>I am more concerned about Israeli government.<
Sorry, the Chief Rabbi of the CR has declared that one may only be concerned with the affairs of one’s own country.
Joe Biden is mind-bogglingly incompetent.
What else is new?
The article brought up some great points and I agree with him on every one of them.
However, the most important company he spoke about was the Antisemitic Press (AP). The AP is the only company on the list that still promotes antisemitism and works with Hamas, yet the largest frum newsite still uses them as their primary source of articles.
>Trump is using the tragic death of Babbit to advance his own agenda<
The Dems used the tragic death of Sicknick to advance their own agenda (until we found out the cause of his death and then naively waited in vain for the Dems to apologize for their shameful lie)
>Well, two reasons. First, there was an investigation by career DOJ lawyers and prosecutors and they concluded the shooting was justified. But of course, you don’t believe the investigation results done by a “deep state” bunch of lawyers in your twisted conspiratorial mind<
Please please don’t call me a “twisted conspiratorial mind”! Of course I believe that all investigation results of the DOJ are sacred, divine and true! In fact that’s why I believe the DOJ should be investigating the Jan. 6 trespassing and not congress.
> so second, most Republicans are totally clueless as to which rabbit trail Trump wants them to follow on any given day.<
Not even on Jan. 6? Then they must have been acting on their own accord.
> If your screaming about Hunter Biden’s laptop or millions of Martians directed by George Soros voting in swing states, its hard to also scream Gevalt about the tragic fate of some mentally disturbed woman dressed up as a soldier, who broke into the Capital and is attacking police.<
If you’re screaming about me screaming about topics I never mentioned and are off topic, isn’t hard to scream about an event that happened 6 months ago?
>Trump will never appear to answer questions under oath. He will have some “health issue” (acute bonespuritis) which his lawyer will argue precludes his appearance before a Congressional investigating Committee. He might send “Little Donald” to testify on his behalf, or more likely, Eric since he is considered the talmid chacham of the family.<
As usual, most of the events that get Dems infuriated happen in their own imagination.
“How did Ashley Babbit die and why did she have to die?”
Obviously we can’t expect the Democrats to care about her, she was just an evil white insurrectionist who almost destroyed the country by trespassing
The real question is; where are the Republicans on this? Why aren’t they demanding an investigation?
Hi YWNCR, I missed a few weeks so can anyone help me catch up? Have we yet found an answer for the question posed in the OP, or did we just shrug and move on?
@n0mesorah, you’re in good company. Self-sabotaging jews have been around since Yetzias Mitzrayim.
These guys have the perfect solution for you: Get spanked.
Oh so this is all about emergency powers?
There is no greater case against the idea “emergency powers” than the ones used in this pandemic. Just look and Andrew Cuomo who used his emergency powers and very likely killed more than he saved.
By the way @yserbius123, you’re absolutely right, I am a libertarian and the crazy thing is I didn’t know that I was until Covid came.
I guess now would be a good time to start a new thread about the pros and cons of libertarianism, but *yawn* I doubt anyone’s interested.
Floridian portobello mushrooms.
@n0mesorah, let’s get to the point. Do you support YWN not using the AP?
This is a yes or no question.
Okay @yserbius123 let me explain slowly and clearly.
When you asked me why speed limits are different than mandatory masking you were obviously asking why I, the pro-choice position have no problem with speed limits. How do I know that? Because why would you ask why speed limits are different than masking in the government’s eyes? They aren’t different in the government’s eyes! They support both!
So I explained to you that according to me speed limits are “Misuse of public property”. That is my position. You can argue that the reason is flawed, but to say “You are wrong about speed limits… They are to prevent deaths and injuries.”? What do you even mean? That I must accept the government’s reason? Why on earth? This is not even a fallacy, it’s plain false.
But unfortunately it’s not just once
You do this all the time.
You claim that the flu is not comparable to Covid but speed limits are.
You made claims about the flu that are outright falsehoods.
You claim that if everyone followed all the rules of the road, lowering speed limits to 10 miles per hour will not save any lives which is just not true.
You distort my words intentionally.
You use fallacies like they’re on your bucket list
You write outright lies.
You bring arguments that don’t even deserve to be called arguments.
Then you use words like “narishkeit” and “shtuch” as if yiddish settles it all.
And then you say that I am throwing a tantrum.
And then you claim that you have answered all the questions.
And then whenever I try to end this infinite conversation you once again misquote me and force to correct you so that you can continue to rave about how terrible pro-choice people are.
You have no argument.
It’s all “the experts said that we should mask and how dare you not listen”.
You still cannot explain why when or why death matters to you.
You are a devout worshiper of “The Experts” and no intelectual dialog can change your mind.
It’s impossible to argue with someone who has such a lose grip on reality and logic.
So all I can do is try not to care as you once again try to provoke me into responding by yet again by distorting my posts, then I’ll have to face the I-told-you-so’s of @syag-lchochmo and @daas-yochid. I now see how right they were when they said “Face reality sir, You. Aren’t. Listening.” and “you have illustrated your inability to have a conversation.”.
If only I would have listened to them sooner.
- Another fallacy. You are using the pro-mask government’s reason to question the anti-mask position.
- Then why is it not ethical to mask for the flu? (Groan all you want, you still have not answered the question.)
Now on to your answers:
- If the speed limit would be 10mph lives would be saved. This is an undisputable fact. Please dig up your sandwich board and set out to save the world.
- I clearly wrote that for CHILDREN the flu is more fatal than Covid. Did you really misread that or are you being dishonest again?
@n0mesorah, I just don’t except the “hamas forced us!” defence. They put their reporters under the mercy of terrorists, What did they expect?
Does anyone really believe that the AP thought that Hamas would let them be honest with their reporting?
Kamala Harris originally was against Biden and then she became his advocate as well as every other Dem that was in the primary.
@health, the Iranians threatening Israel is their way of saying “I’m bored”. Don’t make to much of it.
>I gave you answers to all of your questions<
No you didn’t.
You did not explain why the speed limit should not be lower.
You twice made up differences between Covid and the flu.
You used the meaningless phrase “clear and present danger”.
You made false claims about the flu.
But you never gave a satisfactory answer.
And now you’re trying to threaten me with “I’m not answering again until you answer these two”?
Do you think I need this conversation to continue?
Remember, if we don’t come to a consensus, my position – as the default position – wins.
Ah, but why should we part on such hostile terms? How can we forget all the uh.. good times we’ve had?
So in the spirit of me being a weak pushover, I’ll grant you the answers you so desire:
- Speed limits fall under the category of “Misuse of public property”
- First of all, it’s extremely ironic that you’re asking this question in the very thread in which I expose an “expert opinion” and am found to be right, but I digress.
Suppose we accept those “expert opinions” to be legit, you are still making a severe fallacy when you use science as ethics.
When science shows that masks slow the spread, it means that masks slow the spread. Period. No more and no less. The next question is: Should we be required to wear masks? That question is an ethical one, and no “expert medical opinion” has more authority on it than me and you.
So please keep them out.
Now that I gave you answers to all of your questions, and repeated several of them. I’m not answering again until you answer these two:
- Why should speed limits not be as low as possible in order to reduce deaths?
- Why are the near-unanimous expert opinions of epidemiologists and doctors that children should mask despite the fact that the flu is deadlier for them than covid not enough proof that those guys are just ruthless dictators?
>Now the medina itself has become the biggest joke.<
@n0mesorah, if you’re still looking for lukshen conjectures, here’s a great one.
>Now the medina itself has become the biggest joke.<
>Agreed. I was being ridiculous.<
You’re a rare one. Not many in the CR are willing to admit when they are wrong.
>1. The AP has reporters on the ground in Gaza. After that it is conjecture. Except for the parts that are false.<
In a 2014 article in The Atlantic a former AP reporter claimed that “Hamas fighters would burst into the AP’s Gaza bureau and threaten the staff—and the AP wouldn’t report it (This also happened.) Cameramen waiting outside Shifa Hospital in Gaza City would film the arrival of civilian casualties and then, at a signal from an official, turn off their cameras when wounded and dead fighters came in, helping Hamas maintain the illusion that only civilians were dying. (This too happened; the information comes from multiple sources with firsthand knowledge of these incidents.)”
So this isn’t just me, it’s reporters who worked for the AP.
But we still use the Associated with Hamas Press as a source of news.
And when somebody finally points it out, not only do we get crickets from CR members, but we also get people telling us that there is “nothing for you to get excited about” and it’s all “lukshen”.
And then we wonder why anti-semites think they can get away with violence against jews?
>@MadeAliyah There should be limits to government control but the government also has a right to excessive control when there is a clear and present danger. The COVID-19 pandemic was a case of clear and present danger. Speeding is a case of clear and present danger. The regular flu season is not. Driving 25 down a residential street is not. Simple as that.<
Define “clear and present danger”.
The only definition I can see in this context is “The things that I want to use in order to control your life”.
>@MadeAliyah And yet you still haven’t addressed why you are OK with the government mandating how fast you can drive.<
You still haven’t addressed why you are OK with the government allowing me to drive at dangerous speeds.
Oh, and you also still have the burden of proof.
> Why is that any different from you claims of “govern my face”,<
Because I don’t drive with my face.
> “civil liberties”<
Again, I never said that.
Also, how dare you call for a death penalty for the maskless!!!! DO YOU HAVE NO SHAME??????!!!!!!!!
> and “power grab”? It’s something you are personally doing that the government is preventing!<
But I highly suspect that you only want me to answer so that we can get sidetracked over the answer and ignore the fact that this is a scenario that is problematic for both of us in an argument in which you have the burden of proof.
Nice try though.
>>@MadeAliyah That’s a lot of words for addresses nothing about my main point. — Your main point is that masks save lives and I have addressed that too many times.
>>You keep trying to derail the topic by pretending that my concern about COVID is hypocritical because I’m not equally concerned about the flu — It is hypocritical.
>>when I’ve already made myself clear that the two are not comparable. — No you haven’t. You also seem to think that speed limits are comparable but the flu isn’t. 🧐🤨🤔
>>You keep repeating “the burden of proof is on you” over and over again like it’s some massive shtuch — Not a shtuch just reality.
>>and completely ignoring the fact that the proof is out there in what the CDC and Misrad HaBriyut have been saying. — What have they been saying?
That masks slow the spread? I didn’t disagree with you on that.
That they should govern my face? Nope, don’t agree.
>>Your main issue is that you don’t feel like the government (or my “power grab” whatever that means) — Clarification: when I say “you” I mean whoever is demanding that I mask so in this context it’s the government. (I suppose you know what a government power grab is…)
>>has a right to mandate that you wear a mask, even if it does a lot to protect people. You have yet to address what, exactly, is the issue here since the government mandates things like that all the time, such as speed limits. — True, but we all agree that there should be limits to the government’s control. Masking is one of those as evident in the flu issue and speed limits are not. Why the difference? Good question, but it’s a question for both of us, so why don’t you help me out?
@n0mesora, well done. You managed to steer away the conversation from the AP working with Hamas (yes working, you cannot have reporters in Gaza without the cooperation of Hamas), into a petty squabble over wordings and “lukshen”.
Here for example is how the AP reported the overwhelmingly Arab rioting in Israel in which a jew was muredered and many others were lynched and one arab was lynched by jews:
As rockets from Gaza streaked overhead, Arabs and Jews fought each other on the streets below and rioters torched vehicles, a restaurant and a synagogue in one of the worst spasms of communal violence Israel has seen in years.
The mayor of the mixed town of Lod, which saw the worst of the violence Tuesday, compared it to a civil war or a Palestinian uprising. Arab experts and activists say the violence was fueled by unrest in Jerusalem that has brought Israel to the brink of another Gaza war, but is rooted in deeper grievances that go back to the founding of the state.
Violence flared again Wednesday night with a wave of apparent revenge attacks. In Bat Yam, a Tel Aviv suburb, a large crowd of ultranationalist Israelis pulled a man from a car who they thought was Arab and beat him until he lay on the ground motionless and bloodied. A hospital said he’s in serious condition without identifying him.
If the above article is not overtly antisemitic, I don’t know what is.
Oh and just a fun fact if we’re on the topic: according to Wikipedia – The AP gave the Nazi regime access to its photo archives for its antisemitic propaganda.. They evidently haven’t changed much.
So once again, well done for your support for the Antisemitic Press. Ismail Haniyeh would be proud of you.
>@MadeAliyah You literally addressed none of my comment. — So sorry. To compensate I’ll do a line-by-line responce
>Why are speed limits not attacking your personal liberties? — I never mentioned “personal liberties”. The problem isn’t my personal liberties, the problem is your power grab.
In regards to speed limits, as I said it’s your problem too. You should be fighting for lower speed limits, after all, you wouldn’t want anybody to die because of innconveniences, right?
>Why should masks have not be required? — Why should they be? (The burden of proof is yours)
>You just keep harping on this flu narischkeit, — It’s only “narishkeit” because you have no answer.
>pretending that it’s as dangerous and infectious as COVID — I never did. Please stop putting words into my mouth, it’s getting annoying.
>like it’s some sort of massive shtuch on the whole masking requirement. — It is.
>While you admit that masks saved lives, you still are dismissive of it and claim that it shouldn’t be required — ✔️
>because of “personal liberties”. — ✖️
>You can’t just ignore the pandemic, it actually happened and masks really worked to slow it down. — K.
>What is “default position” anyway? — I’ve explained it enough.
>Some dream where people can do whatever they want? Like drive over the speed limit? — ✖️
>So let me get this straight. You admit that masks directly saved lives, — ✔️
>perhaps even many lives. — Define “many”.
>You admit that you wore a mask when required — ✔️
>and it wasn’t that big of a deal. — ✖️
>And that far less people would have died had everyone listened to the governments when they were requiring masks. — Define “far less”.
>And yet you still think that some nonsense called your “personal liberties” takes precedence? — Again with the “personal liberties”?
>Where are your “personal liberties” when the Shiltoin HaKoifrim demands you pay taxes? — You got me there, let’s get rid of taxes too.
>Or those chauvanist Rabbis insist that women wear long sleeves in the summer? — Tznius is Halacha. Masking isn’t.
>And your conclusion is utterly ridiculous. The AP would not even take notice if a frum site switched to Reuters.<
I disagree. YWN is the biggest frum website.
Even if they don’t notice, why are we furthering the reach of a media outlet that operates under Hamas?
>lets start calling out the Jewish elected offiicals who gave a tepid defense of Israel or np defense at all<
True, but how can we demand that they unequivocally defend the jewish community if we ourselves turn a blind eye to the AP outright working with terrorists?
>All of the AP’s competitors are as bad as they.<
Do they work with Hamas?
For goodness sake, the AP is working with the terror group that has the genocide of jews in it’s constitution. Why are we hearing only crickets from the jewish community???
Speaking as someone who made the move, I certainly had no illusions of safety. Eretz Yisrael is the home of every jew and there’s no better place be.
How is big tech censorship “free speech”?
I don’t get the OP’s question.
>I read through a bunch of his old posts including his first one, and I did not find that Made Aliyah ever made a specific case against wearing or legislating the need for masks.<
The argument began in https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/anti-face-mask-ywncr.
The thread is five pages long.
@yserbius123, the Default Position cannot fly out of windows, is not intimidated by words like “global pandemic” and “millions literally dying” and does not evaporate as soon as “experts” command it to do so. It is just a default position.
If all you want to tell me is that masking slows the spread, it’s okay, I got it, I never disagreed with you on that.
We disagree on whether that would require me to mask. As I have shown repeatedly the need to save lives does not always require me to take action, as evil and selfish as that may sound.
As for the flu, please stop spreading deadly misinformation. The flu can be transmitted even without symptoms, therefore we should mask forever, never bring children to meet their grandparents and leave the house only when absolutely necessary. Do you want the death of another human being on your hands!?
In Halacha your argument is even weaker. The only basis on which to rely masking is Lo Sirtzach. Yet here the flu problem is stronger since you cannot make up a point in which the numbers justify unmasking – as you have done multiple times. Here you must bring halachic source which explicitly states the amount of lives that you are allowed to kill with your “barefaceness” and la’anius da’ati there is none.
I ask you again: How many more posts do you need to prove your position?
Okay so I was right in the OP.
Even according the CDC the vaccinated don’t need to mask and Fauci was just making up excuses.
>@MadeAliyah We’ve already been through this<
We have indeed been through this and you still have not shown me why you totally lose it over Covid deaths yet you would yawn and continue when you hear of deaths not caused by Covid.
>The speed limit should be low enough that the only way to cause loss of life is by sheer recklessness or extremely unlikely situations which no amount of laws (except those saying no leaving the home no matter what) can prevent.<
Nothing to comment on this – unless you think people care more about dying from “sheer recklessness or extremely unlikely situations” than the good ol’ flu…
>And no, the burden of proof is still on you<
I don’t think you understand how the burden of proof works. My position is the default position. What do I mean by that? If we had never had this discussion, we each would have made our own choices – which is my position. Yet you want to change the status-quo, so please tell me why we should do so. If you fail, the default position remains.
> pretty much everyone who is knowledgeable about the subject says that wearing masks saved lives when COVID is rampant and people are unvaccinated. I can’t post links on YWN, but you can check the CDC or Misrad HaBriyut website yourself for proof.<
(You know exactly what I mean…)
>So nu? Why didn’t you wear a mask before you were vaccinated<
For the most part I did mask. (I live in Israel in case you forgot)
Okay @yserbius123, let’s agree that this is getting out of hand. You’ve spent way to much time attempting to prove your point and you’re no closer than when you started.
How much longer do you need to present your case?
When does it end?
>@MadeAliyah With that sort of logic you can apply it to the police stopping people from speeding. What right do they have to prevent you from exercising your democratic right to drive as fast as you want?<
But with your sort of logic the speed limit should be as low as is needed to ensure that no fatal accidents happen at all.
So comparing masking to speed limits is a problem for both of us.
But only one of us has the burden of proof…May 14, 2021 11:07 am at 11:07 am in reply to: Pro-Palestinians Nearly Killed a Jew today in Manhattan #1974439
>Israel has a modern army yet Hamas still attacks.
Not saying not to have guns, but don’t assume it will solve the problems.<
That’s because they are not using their guns enough.
Terrorist-funding Joe wouldn’t be happy if they did.
>You have been constanty complaining that Joe and Nancy are supporting the Arabs, so now you take for granted tbat they do not<
They do support the Arabs, they send them millions of dollars.
Aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!! There’s a cockroach in my house!!! Reb Eliezer @laskern can you please call Joe or Nancy and ask them if I have the right to kill it?
Reb Eliezer @laskern, we don’t need Pelosi to tell us whether or not we have the right to defend ourselves, we need her to call Sheikh Yousef Biden and tell him to stop funding terrorism immediately.
>The CDC has no authority to force and enforce anything. Nor are they trying. Pre-covid, they were the best information on public health.<
I was talking about the Misrad Habriyut and I only mentioned the CDC because I was responding to someone.
So I stand corrected.
>Who is trying to frighten you about freedom and democracy? That seems to be the real danger. And they convinced you to completely parrot their line, without you realizing that your free thinking has been played.<
The Washington Post. They have been telling me that democracy dies in darkness. I didn’t realize what a danger they are until you opened my eyes. Thank you.
>Now, with that in mind, can you please defend your position that wearing a mask is a personal choice and if it makes you uncomfortable you can just not wear it?<
I don’t need to defend my position any more than you need to defend your position when I demand that you must eat spinach every morning for breakfast. You want me to mask against my will, you need to provide a solid reason.
The CDC and the Misrad Habriyut are overstretching their authority in ways that should frighten anyone who cares about democracy and freedom.
Your local doctor and all the doctors you’ve spoken with can provide you with the data and their advice, but do not and should not have the power to force you to do anything. If they did, you would be eating spinach every morning for breakfast.
Your Rav and your local Va’ad HaRabbonim should be listened to, by you.
(A thousand published papers is a lot indeed. If you read a thousand published papers, who am I to argue with you?)
And now @yserbius123, the burden of proof is with you. Please go ahead… 🎤
@yserbius123, let me clear a few misunderstandings:
1. You admit that wearing a mask will protect other people from COVID-19, yet you refuse to wear a mask because it’s a minor inconvenience. That’s your position in a nutshell.
That is absolutely not my position.
The reason I brought up the flu analogy is to prove that people cannot be forced in all instances to take actions against their will to protect others. As terrible as it may sound, this rule is necessary for a functioning society.
So why did I complain about how uncomfortable masks are, before I asked the flu question?
Let me provide you with some context:
In https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1925736/watch-biden-says-he-wants-nation-to-wear-masks-for-100-days.html someone claimed that “All chareidim in EY seem to manage masks”, a comment that made me make a YWN account, correct this nonsense and write a few posts in the CR about how uncomfortable masks are. I then left the thread only to come back later for an attempt to explain the anti-mandatory-masking position in a more fact-based way. I never used inconvenience as an argument since.
(I did point out that inconvenience is a matter of opinion, but only because you kept insisting that it’s not. I did not use that as argument.)
2.Please defend that position
That’s not how it works.
I am not asking you for anything. You can wear a mask, wear two masks or wear none at all, I honestly don’t care.
You however, are telling me to mask, therefore the burden of proof is on you.
Ah, but this is case of saving lives you say? I have shown you that that is not always a valid argument, especially not in the case of masking.
Now the burden of proof is yours again.
I’m all ears.
It’s not that I don’t “care” about people dying from the flu, it’s that the link between me not wearing a mask and people dying from the flu is tenuous at best (as opposed to COVID where there’s a very strong link and correlation between mask wearing and dying).
According to the CDC: a) flu can be transmitted before symptoms appear and b) masks can prevent transmission of the flu.
I would ask you once more to explain why masks should not be required for the flu in order to save even one life, but only a fool tries the same thing twice expecting different results.
I am not being unreasonable, nor taking your words out of context.
And I am a flamingo.
You have made it absolutely clear on multiple occasions that your convenience is more important than keeping other people safe in some sort of bizarre perversion of “Im ein ani li mi li?” I can sit hear quoting your comments all day, but I think this one:
@MADEALIYA: HOW CAN ANYBODY DEMAND THAT PEOPLE SHOULD WEAR A MASK TO PROTECT OTHERS?
really drives the point home.
Do you even realise what you are saying? I spent pages explaining why nobody can demand that others should wear a mask and instead of refuting my points, you decide that I shouldn’t be listened to because I said that nobody can demand that others should wear a mask. This catch-22 is your way of avoiding the question. But two can play at this game:
How about we don’t listen to you demanding that we mask because you are demanding that we mask?
@yserbius123, we can go in circles forever and we probably will if I don’t give up.
If you are interested in having a discussion, I’m all ears.
If you just want to force masks on all faces and spew some name-calling, fallacies and lies on the way, I’m out.
So far you seem to only want the latter, so thanks for your time and I wish you all the best.
>I think Yserbius is making a point that flu transmission is symptomatic<
CDC link removed
“Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.“
@yserbius123, I would go for the usual line-by-line response but I think we are getting far to side-tracked. Let me try to sum up our discussion as I see it, so that hopefully you can tell me where I’m wrong and how to get out of this infinite loop of that’s getting us nowhere.
– In Ihttps://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/anti-face-mask-ywncr I asked you why Covid should not be treated like the flu in regards to masking.
– In the next thirteen posts you failed to effectively answer, eventually saying that you would be ready to admit to not caring about flu deaths and that there is a cheshbon to be made in each case. (Not once did you suggest that “Wearing a mask is pointless if you’re doing the minimal needed to protect others from the flu”)
– At that point I asked you if we could wrap up the thread as we seemed to have come to an agreement. Since you did not answer, I assumed that we were done.
– But we were not done. Apparently you are still outraged that a) I had said “How can anybody demand that people should wear a mask to protect others?” and b) I am inconvenienced by masking.
– I could address those two issues, but what’s the point? You are trying to discredit my arguments by discrediting me as a person and that’s just wrong. The truth is the truth no matter who says it.
– Now back to the flu. I don’t know where you are getting your numbers from nor do I care. According to your logic the entire world should wear masks even to save one human being. How could they put their inconvenience before protecting others? So the infection rate is irrelevant, if masking for the flu will save at least one person – and I’m sure you’ll agree it will – it’s worth the inconvenience.
>MadeAliyah, he said that Israel has done well. Is he lying?<
No. I might disagree with the authoritarian methods they used, but Fauci doesn’t care about pesky stuff like “rights” or “freedom”.
He did say some strange things like “you had a couple of things in your favor… you know what it means to stick together as a single unit” – which is unfortunately not quite true, however I wouldn’t call that ‘lying’ I’d call that ‘talking beyond his area of expertise’.
>Fauci has been a distinguished medical expert for over 30 years<
That’s exactly the problem. He is the most celebrated doctor in the country, yet he openly admits that he is lying to the public.
@jackk, I’m afraid you have been lied to. Many Israeli arabs have better lives than Israeli jews.
They have cheaper and larger homes, don’t serve in the army, and can get away with almost anything without being caught.
In fact Israeli arabs have more rights than arabs of any other country in the Middle East. (Read that line again)
About your question would any Jewish Israeli be willing to live under such conditions? here’s a better question: if the roles were reversed, would any Jewish Israeli act like the Israeli arabs do?
>After all the ztaros in Meron that unite us we should prepare for a day of unity from happiness.<
I was just sharing my thoughts and I am in no place to give anyone mussar.
However, I beg of you all to think deeply about the spiritual cause before the physical cause.
I will now get off the soapbox, thank you for listening.
@lakewhut, thank you for sharing your honest feelings. You’re not alone and I know that many others identify with every word you wrote, so please let me share the thoughts of a simple jew in EY.
Not feeling tzaar from the tragedy is understandable. To you the victims are no more than a picture and a number, they had no impact on you when they were alive so deaths have no impact on you either. All this is again understandable, you are human after all.
What is not understandable is when we skip the tzaar because we found the reason for their deaths. “This was waiting to happen!” or “the kever was a breathing hazard!” are easy ways to calm any uneasy feelings we might have that forty-five people were killed in one night. If this was a natural event, why should we feel bad? People die of old age too, don’t they? Death is inevitable!
Therefore I ask you to stop for a minute and ask yourself some uncomfortable questions:
Is it natural for forty-five people to be crushed to death in one night? Is it ‘unsurprising’ that a Chosson’s friends attended his levayah instead of his chasunah? Or that a father came to Meron with three sons and left with only one? Is it unsurprising that a four-year-old was flung from his dying father’s hands? Or that a bochur carried his friend’s dead body away from the scene?
Yes, there are guilty parties, no one is denying that. But the question we should be asking ourselves is; what are we supposed to make of it on a personal level? This is not some mussar point for a mashgiach to tell his yeshivah. What happened in Meron was a slap in the face of the entire jewish community. In the largest annual gathering of jews, forty-five children, bochurim and fathers, from almost all backgrounds , died an unnatural death. Do we really need another wake-up call?
Unfortunately you’re right.
I came back from one of the levayahs yesterday and checked the news to find comments like who is at fault? The police who held back in carrying out their duty, or the Israelis who compare the Israeli police to Nazis?
I don’t think we should feel anger. I think we should truly feel bad for all the people who are so cold-hearted that they can use a tragedy to badmouth their fellow jews.