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Dear Health,
I do not think the Officers where wrong. Just incompetent.Dear Joseph,
” A police officer has either the obligation or certainly the authority to arrest a drunk driver. If the drunk driver resists arrest the police officer needs to enforce the arrest with physical means. And the resisting arrest criminal is responsible for what happens.And if a criminal grabs and obtains an officer’s weapon, the officer is absolutely obligated to retrieve it however necessary.”
Yes! Yes! Agreed!
It was their discretion to book him. Once he resisted, they hesitated way to much and he made fools of them. If you pull a taser do not yell your are going to get tased. Tase him as fast as you can. That is what it is meant for. Do not check if he is still struggling. Hold him down until he is cuffed. Once he get the taser you have to stop him while you have the chance. Stand your ground and get a good shot. Chasing him was absolutely the stupidest part.There was no chance of one cop subduing him. Once he gets away, do not shoot at people in a
parked car.
Why did this happen? Too much hesitation, again and again. Probably because of what was going on around the country. They tried to be nice so there would be no trouble. The suspect was ready to resist. (What a thug. The cop is being nice, and he still did not want to be arrested.) The cops had fooled only themselves. They could not get over their mistake, until they were being shot at.
This is the problem with excessive policing. These officers were no match for the suspect. They relied on his compliance. If you need his help to arrest him, than just give him a warning and put his name into the system. Unless, there is a danger in letting him go. Then it is the Police’s duty to use whatever means, to stop the suspect immediately. In sum, if there is false incentive to arrest people (To pay court fees and bail. Religious or racial oppression. ) then routine arrests become deadly, due to the suspicion of the populace. Once the cop set his intent to arrest (or book) irrespective of the crime, it is just a drop of resistance away from a death struggle. Largely because the suspects are well endowed to resist and the Police are poorly trained. I do not fault the Police. This is their job description, though it should not be.I fault the city councils and DA’s that mak a career of it.Dear Shnitzel,
Will such a voting system be an overall benefit for our communal needs and wants? I could give examples that I wonder about.Dear Joseph,
Intellectual dishonesty is when debunked theories are put out, sources are not examined, proofs ignored, and so on. You mean I am being dishonest, or plain old lying to you. Well, you could just settle it by answering the questions on your position. Perhaps you do not see any inconsistency between putting the man first, and pushing away the woman’s life for someone else’s life.
So go ahead and paint a picture of what you would have done on the Titanic. Suppose you are the sailor lifting the passengers into the lifeboats. The Captain calls out women and children first! The crowds oblige and the mothers come to the front, with their kids about them. What do you do next?Dear Joseph,
Two different concepts of the death penalty. The symbolic ‘Four Deaths of the Court’. And, the social contract such as the murderer without witnesses. The first needs Sanhedrin to be active in the hewed chamber. The second does not. There is zero obligation on Jews to enforce any commandments of non-Jews. The only way it could happen is if the litigant was disturbing the social order. Since there exists a law for a Jew that is a threat to the State, there is no reason to use the Noahide court system. (Assuming there ever was one.)“The infection rates of March and April were much higher than reported.”
How is it mathematically possible to have a higher ‘rate’ than ‘reported’? Rate of tests that were never done? Rate of people exposed? You could politicize science. But when you politicize math, your going to come across as ignorant at some point. Scientific facts are quirky. Empirical facts are not. If you have more people going up without the rate changing much, that would equal a much higher rate. Which should mean hospitalization rate, and refutes your entire argument. But I give up making sense of your post. It belongs with the President’s assertion that the pandemic is nearing it’s end.Dear Joseph,
Whom is a bigger traitor to our president, Mitt Romney, or the Coronavirus?Dear Joseph,
Source please. The Mishna discusses one who murders without witnesses. This is a case non ritualistic corporal punishment. Any court of 23 could enact it as a deterrent. Why would the Sanhedrin resort to the Noahide system when they could use this option?Dear Joseph,
No, I am on solid ground. Saving lives is critical to life centric Judaism. You cannot push away a life, regardless of gender.
I have never defended this to a non-jew. None ever brought it up to me. Some Yidden have mentioned it to me. Sometimes I corrected them, sometimes not. If I can divulge some personal information here, I am a terrible apologist. If someone has a moral question on halacha which I cannot answer, I like to say I am not gifted with Divine Intuition.Dear Joseph,
The crew was wrong to waste time selecting. The first person they grab, would be helped into the boat. And they should immediately move on to the next one. Any extra milliseconds should be used to think of a solution for the people in the back of the crowd. Who could imagine thinking about a hierarchy in such an urgent situation?Who could have guessed that the pandemic would switch party lines just as the president restarts his campaign?
Dear Health,
You could just make up history to assume you had a valid opinion. Had I known your criteria of real quick was three weeks, I could have been more helpful. Though it is worth mentioning that the National Guard was not called to Harlem and the violence subsided in less than a week.Dear Joseph,
1 See above #1876354
1a I do not know a practical application. Same
1b There is no reason to assume the Mishna or the SA have a practical application in mind. It is teaching concepts and principles. Not fundamentalist rituals. #1876721
1c It is possible that before industrialism, to rescue a life required setting out to fetch help. Which would entail a decision of whom to get and who to treat. Which is similar to what I made up in #1876356
2 #1876757Dear Syag,
I agree with you about getting out. People should get out now. Especially if we have another shut down later in the year. I side with the OP that the community fighting for camp seems out of place.
Empathy and mourning. Make it seem like it was a big deal, even if you made the best of it. Some yidden got the worst of it.Dear Joseph,
I know of no source that we are supposed to enforce the Sheva Mitzvos. If we would be running the government, then we would be required to uphold whatever is the social contract over the non-jewish poulation also.Dear Common,
A million percent. If I could add, I did not know about these people until adolescence. It is weird to hear ten a year-old in cheder having ‘frum’ opinions about these things. I do not think it is good for our communal morality.Dear Joseph,
You cannot pas over a Jewish life for any mitzvah including saving someone else’s life. [Saving your own life is discussed in BM 58] Therefore when you have a group of people in a life threatening situation you are required to save the first one you come across. You cannot push away (or pass over) one life for another. And for sure you cannot start inquiring is there a Kohen here? Ein kan kohen. Yaamod…………Dear Luna,
Maybe. The CDC put up guidelines for camps a month ago.Dear Meir,
The crisis has abated for the moment. We took a big hit. Do not pretend that everything is normal. Lack of coronavirus was never an indicator of communal strength or happiness.Dear Mkylb,
I agree. The optics are terrible. I do not think our community is cognizant of our appearance.Dear Lower,
Agreed. We are not in crisis mode. We should be in empathy and mourning mode.Dear Syag,
I fully understand that the great majority of a household with confirmed cases were most probably infected. But even if we assume the real number is 15 times the amount of positive tests, that only equals to at most a third of the population. Which means that we are have twice as many vulnerable people as the total of the first wave.
in short –This ‘everybody got it already’ is untrue and scientifically fantastic. Disease does not work like a machine. It has to be continually suppressed until it is eliminated. Additionally, the math does not add up to the majority of the population anywhere. Not even close.Dear Someone,
Thank you! But that does not tell us about the property owners (assuming there will be any) at that time. If they will be paid from some fund, then it is a worthwhile investment.
Why do you assume that there is no prophecy today? And why would one prophet be interpreting Yechezkel? Would that not be his own prophetic understanding?Dear Joseph,
Yes! Which is why the SA went from a handbook to 25 volumes. With countless additional writings and notations. By the Titanic, you would have been obligated to take the closest person and put them in the boat first. Regardless of gender. Please find a case more likely than the one I gave you.Dear Syag,
Referring to?Dear Joseph,
Proper. What does that mean? Not every case is the same. I was in a car that the was let go. Above you wrote that the Officer chased him so he would not have to use a ‘deadly weapon’. Unless that meant the taser. Which leaves an Officer chasing an armed suspect who just shook him like dust to tell him nicely that he is under arrest. Maybe you think we need more cops like this. To me , it is clear that he has no clue how to actually fight crime.Dear Health,
Watts, just one city of many. Besides for being the symbol of the race riots of sixties. I do not know any cities that the National Guard stopped the riots ‘real quick’. If i find one or three, I will let you know.Dear Health,
My point was written about your point, not about your implications. It was pointing out that what you though RebE implied was implicitly against his point. If you would have followed his point, you would not have challenged what he implied. therefore, it was pointless of me to counter your point with my point, as you pointed to my implication instead. I apologize for not clarify any implications. I just wanted to avoid tiresome redundancies.Dear Syag,
I read somewhere that he was trying to complete parole. It follows there could not have been a warrant for his arrest……Dear Health,
It seems like you think the role of law enforcement is to nit pick every infraction until everyone is registered in the criminal databases. It follows, that the Police should be trained to arrest as many violators as possible, so they can appear before a judge. Therefore, cops should not waste their time gathering evidence and doing surveillance to arrest hardened and vicious criminals. They should be out on the streets finding people who would not resist, and cite them for blocking their own driveway or spitting in public. A lot of rookie cops agree with you. Every Police veteran that is not a union prop, despises you.
There is no requirement to arrest people who have driven drunk, and are sleeping it off in the car. Happens all the time. I trust the opinions of the CR participants more than what Hollywood thinks is good TV. I looked it up. There is no way you could arrest someone to see if they committed a crime. Gray area here. But if he would have woken him up and just cuffed him right away, the by standers would have started a riot on the spot. [Except that the Officer would have been thrown fifteen feet by Mr. Brooks. Did you really not notice how big he was?]Dear Joseph,
Once the person is safely off the road, (i. e. he was not pulled over) the Police can let him go. Happens all the time. In this case, they do not even know if he drove impaired. Besides for the cop telling him to move the car.The Officers chose to arrest him, and they have to live with their choice. He chose to resist and he died for it.
A taser is not a deadly weapon. You wrote that above. When Police hold it, it is non-lethal. When used against Police, it is deadly. Well, I could sort of agree considering these two cops bumbled for the greater part of an hour over how to get a drunk out of the way. I wouldn’t let them touch my water gun.
Dear Yserbius,
I am not sure what your associates are doing. But I have met kofrim that are otherwise very observant Yidden.Dear Ben,
To summarize your point. ‘We have to politically oppose those that have radically different ideas and cultures than us, because it will affect how we raise our families, the curriculum, and the morality of our surroundings.’
And to quote, “This political opposition is trying to force (REALLY?!?) us to acknowledge as equal and just things that are anti-Torah.”
I consider this faux piety. If political entities in this country can affect our steadfast hold to our own religious values, we need to reexamine our commitment or our value system. For if such trivial things are weakening our grasp of the Truth, then we are not really holding on.Dear Lower,
This is basic shmiras hanefesh. I could look into it, if you want sources. But I am surprised that it could be controversial. Anybody else thought I over stated the truth?Dear Health,
The cop did not move on. he decided to arrest him. A breathalizer is not an investigation. He took one. Tell him he cannot drive home, he should call someone to pick him up. You would think the police have more to do than deal with a drunk. Did you see how easily he schooled two officers while he was on his stomach with one hand holding the taser? One cop couldn’t have cuffed him in his sleep. Besides, could you cuff someone just to detain them?Dear Joseph,
Absolutely correct. But the concepts of the sugya do not play out that way in real life. Practically speaking, it is likely that a man will die while we are saving a woman in accordance with halachic precedence. For the reverse to actually occur, is far less likely.Dear Haimy,
ARtscroll and Mesivta do not fill in the blanks. They are doing something else. Gemara can be learned effectively without Rashi. You need to decide what are you focusing on. The Gemara itself? Or only as a stepping stone to everything that was written after?Dear Som,
This law puts the obligations of society back on these people. They cannot do whatever they want and claim ‘I identify like this’ or ‘I was made this way’. Anything that a man and a woman would get fired for, they could also be. This should be precedent for many bizarre legal battles that are coming out. A cornerstone of normalcy was finally set down. Be happy about it. I think one day it will overturn same ex marriage.Dear Ration,
Correction. Satmar’s opinion is based the three oaths. Not the other way around. Actually, this was the chiddush of the Minchas Elazer zy”a. We say Satmar, because of a notable disciple of the MNE went on to demonstrate the the Holocaust was enough of a reason to change his opinion.Dear By,
“Truly hopeless” or “too good to leave”? Make up your mind (once, not twice).Dear Som,
Do you agree that this is not a major issue for our community? About the transgender employee for the religious institution. Scenario one. Competent janitor. A lot of the janitors in yeshivos today, are odd characters. One yeshiva used do have a janitor that was a former priest who had jail time for murder! Scenario two. Competent maggid shuir. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. If all our mosdos would do serious background checks for all employees, we would avoid these issues. And some other ones.Dear Health,
You claimed that they brought in the National Guard and ‘it stopped real quick’. I already pointed out, that kent State galvanized the anti-war movement. You said we should discuss the race riots. well here goes…….1964 Harlem Three days of rioting. National Guard was not called in.
1965 Watts Six days of rioting. National Guard was called, and turned it into a war zone. Martial law. Absolute curfew. Snipers. It took a month.
1967 Detroit Around 100,000 members of the National Guard. Made it worse. Lost control of the city. LBJ sent the Army.I am not sure what you want to say about the Sixties. But whatever it is, it seems to be a small part of the historical record.
Dear Health,
He thoroughly answered your question. If you want a specific statement, you can post it yourself. But, I can give you a statement. The FBI was in charge then.Dear Two,
Why are there close to zero new cases? We closed down so much for so long, that when we reopened there where very few active cases. (Let’s guess that we were about the same as March 1st.) Nothing like Purim is happening now. Additionally, BMG and other super spreaders are nowhere near their usual numbers. Schools have been open for about two weeks on average. Many at risk people are still staying home. Some low risk people are distancing and wearing masks. It took three weeks for the numbers to be noticeable. And another three weeks of mounting cases to really make people aware of the magnitude of the pandemic. Six weeks ago was lag baomer. While we are not holding our breath, this is not ‘proof’ to not wear masks. As far as I understood the CDC, masks are not going to solve everything. It will help slow the spread.The other discussion of Black versus White in this country.
Many people who live in inner cities, are not interested in owning a house in the suburbs. They enjoy being in an apartment building with hundreds of people. They find personal life boring (or painful, depressing). They are just fine making a few dollars and enjoying life. White people can do this without any fear. Black people have a lot of challenges. The system that built America into a superpower, does not require every american to partake in the economy. A person can dedicate his life to whatever goal he wants, and there is enough wealth (and debt) in this country to cover for him. [For example, long term kollel.] Alternatively, one can ‘float’ around, and survive of the american bounty. For Black Americans, floating around the country before WWII was suicidal. [Blacks stayed in their suburbs and then migrated to the cities.] They never learned how to use the system. (Even when they where included in all the benefits of American Government.] Today, a white person showing up in a random neighborhood does not arouse suspicion. A black person does. Black people did not have whom to contact when they where wrongfully accused. Blacks have major issues with being arrested for petty crimes, and living their life in and out of Jail, bail, and no trial. But the main point is, that inner city black neighborhoods, have life values that are incomprehensible to their respective city councils. They face biases that are not founded in reality. Not only are they deemed a threat because of their size and demeanor, the hardened black criminals escape detection. Because all they have to do is avoid a certain stereotype, and the Police won’t even notice them. And you end up with a bunch of regular black kids being charged for the same black sociopath’s (or sycophant) crimes. And, there was no way for them to clear their record. In sum every Black person without a steady job is assumed to be involved in criminal activity, Imagine if that was applied to Lakewood!
There are two separate discussions about Black versus White inequality in this country.
Most of the conversation on this site, deal with ‘living the american dream’. While Blacks today still face a serious task for upward social success, so does everyone else. It can be argued that Blacks face more difficulties than Whites. But it can easily be countered, that every successful group in this country, had to overcome formidable challenges to get where they are today. There is a tangent here, about bias against successful people because of the communities they come from. As affirmative action grew, this topic has become more convoluted. There is no easy understanding, it is complicated. We cannot go back and clarify all the causes of Black/White inequalities since emancipation. We cannot deny them either. It is a stalled debate.
There are many different takes on how to restart the debate, without going back to slavery. Here is one that I remember from a black activist in the seventies. ‘America has served as a melting pot for every race. For centuries, Blacks were denied entry into american society. Blacks were also denied the ability to form their own society. Americans have to decide, should Blacks melt into America, or compete with it?’ This is very debatable.Addendum – If somewhere of to your left a man is calling for help, and somewhere to the a woman is calling for help, what do we do?
If we know they are both drowning we go to the left. Not a practical case. And as a matter of fact, neither case happened to me. Never heard of it actually happening to anyone. I made them up,Dear Joseph,
I do not want to burst your bubble, but there is practically no scenario (Besides for one example explicitly mentioned in the Mishna.) where you let the woman die to save the man. Car accident? Go to the one who took the biggest hit first. Drowning? Closest to the rescuer. Fire? Closest to the rescuer. One dose of medicine? See above. Hospital? Whoever was admitted first. Captive? Redeem the woman first. Death row? See above. Stuck in a foreign country? See above. Shelter? From a riot: Woman first. Starvation: Same. Poverty: Same. Cold: Whoever comes first. Heat: Same.
The man comes first when it comes to giving him a job, lending money, charity, returning a lost article, et cetera… If the woman actually dies because you gave the man some money, I would be suspicious of your over zealousness………..Dear Syag,
The fear is the opposite. That half of those that were not infected in the first wave, would be infected in the second wave. Which is a humongous number.Dear Joseph,
“The original Jewish property owners will reclaim all the property that was stolen from them by the Romans and all the other gentiles that seized Jewish property in Eretz Yisroel over the last two thousand years.”WHAT?!?
Do you have a source for this? There is a whole sugya (Gittin 58) about how to buy land from the Romans in regard to the original owners. Besides, land conquered in war was universally considered legally acquired, until recently. ‘Occupied territory’ was at the discretion of the occupier. (Not sure when. 1948 UN? Maybe somebody here knows.) As far as I know, the halachah has not pivoted on this, and conquered property is legally owned. And, who are the original Jewish property owners? How would they prove it was theirs? According to your fiction, the land could belong to the Jews who were conquered by Sancheriev or Nebuchadnetzer. Or, perhaps even earlier conquests.
Maybe you meant something else.