Forum Replies Created
1) Please block my login as I had requested.
2) Old man, thanks for the laugh. The Rebbe ZYA spoke of the fifth son, who is so far from Yiddishkeit that he does not even come to the Seder. I am contrasting that with the second son, and we all know which son that was. Certainly you know that the Lubavitcher Rebbe himself had no children at all!
Your reference to the work of koifrim like Assaf and Friedman has no place on this board either. They’re just as busy ripping up other Admourim and roshei yeshivas as they are with Chabad.
If what those 2 koifrim wrote was true, even they admit we are talking about a case of mental illness. Given sanitation and medical care at that time, any infection could have entered anyone’s brain and caused psychiatric symptoms. We know that about a century later, a man named Theodor Herzl developed a brain infection that he got in a way that we don’t discuss on this site. The ramblings in his book are clearly the fruits of a diseased mind.
In the time of the Baal haTanya, it was possible to contract organic brain disease from infections caused by bad drinking water or raw sewage. Other delusions were caused by ergot, a fungus that grew on flour. So, even if he did have a son who lost his mind and did something crazy, it is not a reflection on anything.
And this is one more reason why I must go. The standards here have fallen greatly over the past few months. “Vehaya machanecho kodosh” is not just a song by Miami Boys Choir. It was why I continued posting here long after I gave up on all other sites, but now, the dark side has arrived here as well.
For the second time, please remove my login and mark my account blocked. I’m not a certain other poster who has a grudge and who will keep hitting the site with phoney accounts. I don’t have the time or the inclination to goof off, and I have no recourse if you do not remove my access, but I did contribute in my time and I ask that my wishes be respected.
Blocked per your request. We hope you will return for peerim
1) This was a wind-up thread but it sure generated interesting responses.
2) I actually think that there should be more awareness of the negative consequences of certain actions, but NOT in the sense of you are chayav this and that. Instead, it should be explained that you, as a Yid, have a tafkid in this world, and by doing (aveiro) you are just not doing what you’re here for.
There actually are some fine mussar songs, from the kind of tacky We Want You – We Want Your Tefilla (Better Shut Your Mouth if You Don’t Want Skila) to the almost frightening song by Reb Moishe Goldman AH about the boy who hit a fellow Yid and chose to come back disabled L”A rather than face Gehennom. I do think we need more psukim set to music, but psukim from the toichecho are not really meant to be sung!
3) Please block my account. I came on one last time to clear this up and to explain this thread, but I can’t justify being part of this anymore. I believe very strongly that we need something called taharas ha’am, in which we keep out and expel those who do not meet standards.
In the particular incident that was the last straw, I have hard, permanent evidence that someone should be removed from the klal regardless of his status – namely that he is a clear koifer be’ikar. It doesn’t concern me personally. I live abroad and he is not going to touch my nonexistent non-mevushal wine, but the klal needs to watch for fakers and those who perhaps came in with good intentions but can’t walk the walk.
I will close by saying that I have noticed a new phenomenon of self-hating “Orthodox” Jews. They are borderline, ostensibly MO but very far from what MO stands for, and they clearly are not happy with themselves. They take their unhappiness out on Yiddishkeit by trying to paint those who do take it seriously and do believe as fanatics. They make a spurious claim that they are the ones who are machmir on bein adam lechavairoi, but you always see them mouthing off about how, lemashal, Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin deserved what he got (chas vesholom), or about some frum person who slighted them. They always take the side of the frei or the nochri against the ben Torah, even if all they know is what they read in a biased lefty newspaper.
These sad souls unfortunately are given a platform to squawk here, and recently it has gotten out of hand. They are the second son, not the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZYA’s fifth son, and since I have no power to “hake es shinav,” I must leave so that I don’t waste time arguing with them.
So, goodbye once and for all. You know where Creedmoor is if you like my humor :). I don’t want to concern myself with real issues in the klal online, except as a satirist on my own blog.
And to leave on a happy note – here is my first Arba Misois Beis Din niggun. I’m not sure where the music is from but check out some Belz, Nadvorna or Satmar albums and you’ll find the right tune:
“Bo-reye arba misois byse din – hee yevooreykh es ha-chusson
Bo-reye skila vegam sreye-fo – hee yevoorech es ha-kallah!”October 27, 2011 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm in reply to: Do Online Halachic Discussions Cause Some to be Nichshal in Aveiros? #868027
It is preventing a michshol. All halachos of loshon horo are superseded by physical or spiritual pikuach nefesh, outside of leftyland where they hold by the Chofetz Chaim when it pays them to, but they consider him a benighted black hatter (chas vesholom) when his psak or eitza does not suit them.
This is my last post here, ever. I came here, despite the many attacks on my Chassidus and my Rebbe, because there were standards here. After this censorship of my post, I realize that there are not– and goodbye once and for all. I am about to add the coffee room to my filter.
All they agreed to was that the DRIVER could not enforce seating…..but it isn’t even clear in the case of this moiseres that the driver did that (we don’t take her word for much). I have been on many non-frum sherut taxis in EY where most riders were frum and we ourselves arranged our seating. The driver is not going to enforce mixed seating either.
And you don’t know what the company’s next move is. My guess is that if rabbonim ossur the bus because it becomes mixed seating, or if the clientele becomes uncomfortable, something will happen.October 27, 2011 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm in reply to: Do Online Halachic Discussions Cause Some to be Nichshal in Aveiros? #868021
No, it is emes. Not mosheemes but emes Moshe.
“Licensed private van”
So I guesss that is what they or their competitor will become if customers want the separate seating and they can no longer provide it. Leave it to a Yiddishe kop to figure out. I’m not in the US or in the transportation business but any US code is full of loopholes.
BP has far more political clout than the non-English speaking and often non-citizen population of Southeast Queens.October 27, 2011 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm in reply to: Do Online Halachic Discussions Cause Some to be Nichshal in Aveiros? #868018
It could – but only among young and inexperienced Net users. I, for one, can tell a kid looking for attention or a confused kid or malcontent with one eye closed. I know not to engage those types in debate but rather to make it clear that they are worthy only of sarcasm and mockery.
Like the small but vocal left-wing’s fighting Torah-true Jews over what the left doesn’t consider valid by claiming they are keeping chumras in dina demalchusa dina and ben adam lechavero to justify themselves because they put Modern before Orthodox? That has to be stopped, but it will stop in a generation anyway when the loudmouths’ children make whatever choice they make between modern and Orthodox.
Do you mean “Excision of Your Zayin?” I will happily lend you and any other anti-Semitic troll that book, after I explain its concepts to you in a very dark alleyway.
No one from the community complained. This was all the work of an outside provocateur looking for a journalistic scoop which she did get.
Side-to-side might have been better, but no one minded until this cholere, who probably could care less for anything but her 15 minutes of fame, came along. She would have gotten her scoop with side-by-side as well.
On the other hand, bnei yishmoel pere odom that follow the religion of a certain warlord who would today be arrested for pedophilia are suing a Catholic college so they can have a room without crosses! They will probably win, unless the college capitulates first as so many do because of fear of Islam.
“Had someone done the same to expose an African-American practice, everyone would be crying “racism.””
As far as I know, they don’t have official racial policies.”
LOL if it weren’t so sad.
Health, I know of what I speak. You are in dreamland. It will all be forgotten, things will go on as they always did, and unless some passenger acts the way the sikrikim do, no one will interfere. The driver knows who pays him, and it is the Jewish franchisee. The Jewish franchisee, if he has a Yiddishe kop, can go private even if he doesn’t use the exact same route. Another Yid can bring in private service on a similar route – I never took that bus but it looks like a relic and I’m sure someone can do better.
Votes are involved too, and the Chassidim of BP make and break candidates. They happen to be huge Federal, State and City taxpayers, despite what self-haters and semi-frum holier-than-thous think goes on in BP. Those banks on 13th Avenue can’t accept dirty money, and laundering is not easy since 9-11. There are so many banks there because there is so much clean money, mostly Yiddishe gelt, to be handled in BP.
The bus company pays money for that route so it can serve its local customers who are members of the same community as the bus company owner. Regardless of the law, it is not a fair one as it blocks the rights of the customers to have the service they want and need. Ignoring it is the same as ignoring the old laws of the USSR against shechita, matzo baking, and opening shuls. I would half-understand if Sikriki types started to enforce the rules 6 months ago, but this kind of seating was the rule for 20 plus years, and the wannabe sikriki in BP drive cars with flashing lights LOL – they don’t ride the bus!
Try stopping any Islamic or African-American practice, including such beautiful demonstrations of civilization as the Crown Heights Labor Day Massacre, I mean parade, where bystanders of all creeds risk getting hit by stray bullets. On the other hand, one moiseres, or one call by a self-hating Jewish neighbor, can put an end to anything from a private sukkah to a simchas beis hashoeva to bus rules that were in operation for 20 years.
Yes, Shein, it sure is.
The Admou”r meCreedmoor has 300 quintillion selves that argue with each other. If you want, I can get you an appointment with him, but he accepts only Iranian toman, EBT cards and food shtempelach for kvittel gelt.
Is it a kiddush Hashem or a chilul Hashem when an ostensibly frum Jew who does not keep certain chumras or minhagim that others do tries to make it hard for those who do keep them to do so, because he feels that they make us look bad in front of the goyim?
The Chilul Hashem was made by the non-Jewish provocateur who went on the bus just to expose something that the passengers wanted and agreed to based on the perfectly valid views of their rabbonim. This bus has been that way for 20 years and no one complained. That provocateur is no better than the Dutch moiseres who told the Nazis where the Frank family was hiding. She would have done the same in those circumstances.
99% of the passengers who use that bus are frum Yidden. The other 1% are probably cleaning ladies who depend on frum Yidden for their daily bread.
Had someone done the same to expose an African-American practice, everyone would be crying “racism.”
In the end, passengers will continue to sit as they did. Glares and stares from passengers will make those who want to make trouble feel uncomfortable. The drivers just won’t be able to enforce anything.
Alternately, the company will ditch the franchise and the new operator or the MTA won’t make a penny on it because the old operator will get all the Jewish business. The new one will make do with the occasional Polish cleaning lady who lives in the Polish neighborhood on the outskirts of BP and cleans homes in both BP and Willy.
Springbok, that was the public service counter ad to the Dubek ad referenced above.
Is it Kiddush Hashem or Chilul Hashem if there is an abuser in the community and we dont turn them over to the authorities?
Depends. If we take care of him by ourselves, and he never molests again, and has a chance to rehabilitate himself somehow, then it is a tremendous Kiddush Hashem. I don’t know if this is possible with molestors. Beating a molestor to a pulp and shipping him out of town minus certain organs is actually a Kiddush Hashem as well if a molestor really has din rodef, because it scares anyone else with the tayva into getting help or at least into getting out of the community.
If he is just allowed to go on molesting then we know what that is.
As for the parking spot: Far too many disabled placards are handed out to able-bodied people whose doctors agree to get them recognized as disabled on ridiculous technicalities related to minor chronic conditions. Because of the extra placards and plates, they started to set aside far too many spots for “disabled.”
Kiddush Hashem – leaving a note on your car saying “Day and Time: I had to run into X for an emergency. I’ll be back in 15 mins. If you need this space call Y and I’ll come right over.” Anything else – grey area.
Onegoal – that brand name would be “Abstinence!”
If you are chayav sreyfa and you put your tongue inside your cheek before they pour the lead, will that stop the execution?
When is the next Lipa-circus production? I want to speak to them about having an arba misois beis din act or perhaps to produce the next one myself davka as an arba misois beis din awareness day program.
Shticky, that was an old ad for one of the E”Y Dubek brands, perhaps Time. It appeared in the charedi press and was very controversial.
When smoking was allowed on planes, I actually smoked Marlboro menthols (available in Europe) without inhaling the tobacco into my lungs, because cigars and pipes were never allowed.
My favorite brand of cigarettes is actually Hawaiian High, aka Marley’s Marlboros.
I am waiting for the new Samsung to reach here (the Nexus that works on the new Ice Cream Sandwich version of Android).October 25, 2011 7:52 am at 7:52 am in reply to: A Shul that's a blend of all the new successful Shuls, for BP #823088
Boro Park has become far too Chassidish for something like this to succeed there. I was away from the US for 13 years and when I came back 5 years ago I found that the old BP I remembered had become more and more like Williamsburgh. I heard far more Yiddish, especially in the stores, and saw far more Yiddish ads of the type I associated with Willy.
Maybe Kensington is more of a place for this – close enough to both BP and Flatbush for some people to walk over but with more of a mixture of residents.
BP needs an Airmont shul – culturally Ingarisch-Chassidish but open and not tied to a particular Rebbe or chassidus.
‘shudders’ If you want to see why NOT to play with gematria, enter ????? ?? ??? into Gimatria.net. (MBD doesn’t use the net so he will never see this, and it is not his full name in any case.)
And yes, Shoulson is unfortunately neither of the tzadikim nor of the benonim. The Lubavitcher Rebbe ZYA asked him why he does not write good things about Yidden in his papers. Another Rebbe of note, who left us more recently, would probably have told him – Shygetz Aross.
Metro – Ponim Chalashos was back as of 2005, in the form of a small and very unprofessional Xeroxed edition for a ridiculous $3.50 which made it the same price as Mishpacha back then!
I was out of the US when the original publication folded – someone brought us a copy in 1993 because a sad situation in our city made it into the rag. I cannot believe the little pisher started up with Shomrim – at least he finally got what he deserved.
He was indeed an extortionist, and he was very successful. He changed sides to whoever paid him the most, and he turned on former friends in an instant. He will certainly merit to publish and edit the Gehennom Gazzette.
Any good gematrias for Chaim Shoulson? 🙂 I don’t remember whether he spells Shoulson in Ivrit with a vov or in Yiddish with an aleph and a hay between the samach and the mem…I mean the samach and the nun! (Actually I don’t even remember if he was Shoulson or Shoulzon – samach or zayin.)October 24, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm in reply to: Temple Beth El in BP ought to become an Aish Kodesh type shul! #822280
Rental can pose problems – but how does the shul keep the lights on? The old architecture is not energy-efficient in any way and the heating and AC bill must be nightmarish. If they can rent it out as a hall that is always best – a second kehilla does result in problems at times even as a renter.
Regardless, there is no reason for a new, alternative shul to start with a huge building. That is a recipe for failure – it means they will have to depend either on a big organization (unlikely in BP) or a big donor (more likely) who will in the end want things his way – and that means his rav and his hashkafah.
The best thing is for a grass-roots shul to start small and build itself up from the roots. Alternately, someone needs to find another Lipa in BP – that is a businessman or professional who is not a rov but can take care of the gashmius of an informal shul at least in the beginning. Someone like that can keep it open to all who are interested and let it develop as necessary because he himself is not a rov or a representative of any organization.
Restricting myself to humor and occasional follow-ups on old, less controversial posts. I can’t keep up and I don’t want to get involved in the controversial threads.
LOL yes Metrodriver – that one was from an old and unlamented loshon horo broadsheet called Ponim Chadashos. It was in turn taken from someone’s PEERIM Torah in the community that was then associated with Shygetz Aross. I was shocked when I first saw it until I realized when Ki Sissa is usually read. I then had a good laugh as I realized where Ponim Chalashos got its material.
Since then I have occasionally spoken on 14 Adar regarding whether Ki Sissa is what is brought down in the hyliger Ponim Chalashos or whether Shiksa Arann should be substituted for Shygetz Aross. I’ve come up with goodies of the sort that are kasher lePeerim only, like Shiksa Arann representing actresses and supermodels who embody the shechina whereas Shygetz Aross refers to lowlives who represent the yetzer horo.
Usually I need to fuel myself with 96% alcohol (gematria tzav, as in a parsha that is sometimes read Purim week during a leap year) before I speak about such lofty matters.
Itche Srulik – I have hardly seen isha written without a yud.
LOL. Joseph is a normal Yid who for whatever reason did not fit in here, so he started to act crazy to get attention or to get some sort of revenge against the mods.
In this case it wasn’t warranted, as this board is basically well-run and fairly moderated. However, I did the same myself when a group of misfits took over an information board that I once frequented and turned it into a social gathering for their clique of losers and wannabes.
My privacy was breached by one of the misfits, a socially inept fellow who did not even know that what he was doing was wrong, and after that I did what Joseph did – signed up all kinds of screen names and engaged in dialogue between them just to make things hard for the misfits. Later, the board became a haven for Eurotrash anti-Semites as well (although the owner was Jewish, she had more screws loose than an old Model T in Havana and all she wanted were hits to prove to her sucker advertisers that people read her site, so she did nothing to stop them), and at that point I really started to have fun until I got banned altogether.
The board has nothing to do with any of my interests now (I was OTD at the time and it was a board for expatriates in a city where I no longer live), but ironically the misfits were forced out in the end and made their own board for their little social cabal.October 24, 2011 10:30 am at 10:30 am in reply to: Temple Beth El in BP ought to become an Aish Kodesh type shul! #822270
Actually, if BP does need another type of shul, why DAVKA does it have to take over the building of an existing one? Most alternative shuls start in basements or homes and then move on to properties of their own.
Someone probably should start an alternative shul in BP – and fast. But even if Beth El were available, it would be far too much for a new shul to handle.
On the other hand, if Beth El (which I don’t remember at all – my connection with Boro Park was mostly Sunday shopping) is practically empty, renting space to an alternative minyan might be a good idea for it to keep itself going.
The one on top for mois yumos is a perfect slogan to write on a placard when marching in front of the home of a child abuser of the Mondrowitz variety.
The second is not a phrase which is used and the fourth is not standard spelling.
And Shygetz Aross(300+10+3+70+90 + 1+200+6+10+60) = 473+277=750 – there has to be something for that one!
Well – this one is for real:
Lamed = 30
Yud = 10
Pay = 80
Aleph = 1
Shin = 300
Mem = 40
Ayin = 70
Lamed = 30
Tzadi = 90
Resh = 200
851 for Lipa Schmeltzer (as he himself spells his name officially in Yiddish)
Hay = 5
Aleph = 1
Dalet = 4
Mem = 40
Aleph = 1
Shin = 300
Resh = 200
Yud = 10
Tzadi = 90
Resh = 200
851 for Ho’odom Asher Yatzar
Lipa is undoubtedly the first singer to ever record a song called Asher Yatzar, even if it is NOT what we expected when we first saw the title on the album cover!
I may have inadvertently been the inspiration for the song title (long story – I first wrote about Lipa singing Asher Yatzar in a parody review of Kineinehora as I got hold of it during civil vacation week in 2006 when I had plenty of time to joke around. Then, someone started to circulate a fake single cover of Lipa in a kisse singing A”Y, which I claimed was a real promo for Sanobol kisse cleaner in a fake interview with Lipa on Creedmoor) – and guess which aliya I got this past Shabbos…..October 23, 2011 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm in reply to: Temple Beth El in BP ought to become an Aish Kodesh type shul! #822231
Heichal Menachem comes to mind. They are actually not interested in pushing Chabad but rather in having a shul where people feel comfortable. The only problem is that those who feel comfortable in the HM shul at present are seekers of another kind – very haimish, Chassidish people who no longer feel they want to daven wherever they grew up because of machloikes in their original communities.
I think Airmont (yes, as in Reb Lipa’s Shtibl) is more of a model for what BP needs than either Aish Kodesh or Heichal Menachem. Both AishK and HM are more intellectual in approach; the BP marginal crowd is looking more to feel wanted and to enjoy davening than to have a rov who can really explain things. I’ve only been to HM once and what I saw was a (very mixed as far as origins and affiliation) crowd that was really into heavy-duty learning and therefore just as unattractive to the segment of the BP community that really needs and is crying for guidance than a regular shul would be. Aish Kodesh really isn’t geared to the BP crowd either.
Lipa would choke (literally and figuratively) in the air of BP but there must be someone who can run a shul like that in BP, even if, like Lipa, he lets others handle the rabbonus. The closest shul I know of to what BP probably needs is Rabbi Fund’s minyan in Flatbush.
I mean that that if you circle the shul 9 times a ????, you receive 9 shots. The men are vomiting and/or sprawled out over the floor. It’s disgusting, repulsive and a real Chillul Hashem!
That is ossur. That rov should be put under supervision on Simchas Torah and not allowed to run hakafos in his own shul. Knowing what you can handle, maybe going just a bit past it and singing and dancing as your inhibitions melt away is fun and amounts to elevating the mashke. Vomiting or rowdy behavior is ossur. Anyone who knows he will end up that way if he drinks should not touch mashke even on Purim, and any rov who encourages that is far, far out of line. Most rabbonim know who can handle 9 shots and who can’t, and sometimes they warn the guys who can to keep a very sharp eye on the mashke (especially the strongest stuff) and never to let it get into the wrong hands. They also know not to let the 9 shot guys get much past 10.
All Chassidim of all types know about the cherem. Next misinformation?
MO as people define it here means very simply – putting Modern before Orthodox and misdefining modern to mean bending and sinking in observance to match the times. That was true 50 years ago. It isn’t true now among the leadership, except in YCT which is fringe. Probably the real YU definition is that Torah and secular knowledge are on equal footing, which in turn is a spin of Rav SR Hirsch ZT”L’s hashkofoh.
You can be fully integrated into the modern world (usually for parnosso reasons) and wear a Samet hat, payess and a reckel down to your ankles, and you can be an ignoramus about current affairs and technology and not know how to use the Internet and wear a kippa sruga that you take off when you walk into a treyf restaurant to have (whatever your rov 30 years ago told you you could have).
By the way, this is my last serious post here until Chol Hamoed Pesach. Of course I will be back in Adar for humor posts, as well as at any other time if current or community events warrant a few satirical or joke posts.
I have too many responsibilities in the modern world and in the (most charedi segment of my) community to be really involved here.
I am sure those who do it have no idea of its source, and it could just be a coincidence that it is done by others for the wrong reasons.
I know a very reliable rov who has some strange way of counteracting the ayin horo that seems to clearly have pagan origins. He doesn’t know that because it was handed down to him over the generations, he doesn’t charge for it, and it is in the geder of people believe it works so it does. I would not ask him to do whatever he does for me, but I would not tell anyone who asks me about him to avoid this if he offers it.
Because of screwy insurance reimbursements, you will probably do better as a nurse practitioner or PA than as a doctor, especially at your stage in life.
actually – hereg because it makes your head fly off!
What about hitting a rock with a stick? That segula does have a mekor but it had disastrous results for someone who used it when he should not have……….
keeping their aravos fresh?
It’s late here and I almost read that as “keeping their aveiros fresh!!!!!!”
Regarding aveiros, I am an expert.
Regarding aravos, I can’t help you. We have an aravos tree on every block here and I take what I need except on Hoshana Rabba when I pay kids from our community to cut them as is the tradition here.
I was in Otisville today to visit the hymishe prisoners for Sukkos, and let me tell you, a dank tzi der Basheffer far Otisville (Thank G-d for Otisville).
This time I met Feivish der Fireplace Fabrikant. He tells me: “You know, I have 2 businesses. I make fireplaces and install them to people’s livink rooms, and I’m a real estate investor.”
So I told him: “What are you doing here? Two honest businesses and you should be out working and making money.”
And he tells me: “Well, times are hard so I decided to make my two businesses into one. I take a buildink and make it into a fireplace by openink up der ges-valve and lighting eppes a match oder myne lighter. Den I tells de insurance I need a few new livink rooms because dey blow up and dere’s no more room to put a fireplace.”
And I say to him: “Now I understand. And all I have to say to that is – a dank tzi der Basheffer far Otisville!”
(Another version of my Otisville joke, based on “Thank G-d we’s got penitentiaries” by a certain deceased comedian whose name is best not remembered here.)
Yes. In EY, disaffected young people turn to very extreme forms of “tshuva” more as a rebellion against the emptiness of the mess the tzioinim made than out of real belief. Some have been through drugs, Eastern cults etc and this is just another try to find a place in the world.
They develop the belief later, but usually it starts with a desire to escape. And what they are escaping is the sickness of secular “Israeli” society.
Left wing MO and an over-emphasis on kollel were both horaas shaah. Left wing MO is falling apart on its own – but so is universal koilel. The former was necessary to prevent losses when it was socially very hard to be frum, and the latter was a must to produce an American-born frum leadership (leaving aside the deals made in EY for army exemptions).
I think the divide is between those who are frum first and part of their general society second, versus those who try to bend frumkeit to match secular social and moral norms so that they can blend in while keeping the bare essentials. The first are guided by Torah and daas Torah – the second by the society around them and dass baal-habayis.
The first group are defined as charedi by some. Still, you’ll find plenty of the former in MO, especially in YU. The latter are more socially frum than anything and you’ll find them at the margins of the yeshiva and chassidishe velt. Nevertheless, they are far more prevalent in the MO world.
However, those who profess the second as an ideology are found only in MO (and RZ in EY, where you still have a hard core for whom tzioinis is more important than Torah to the point they believe that Knesset decisions have the force of Torah).
Learning vs working? No charedim work? Hmm..who owns B and H, Eastern Union, Hirsch Wolf and Co, Madison Title, all these car leasing offices, Americare etc…and who works there? Even in EY, the people who have the shops in Geula and Rechov Rabbi Akiva look 100% charedi to me (never mind Leviev and other top charedi entrepreneurs).
Because you can’t deal with crazies. The leadership of Chabad is in a court battle to get control of 770 and clean it up, but the issues are so convoluted that they’ll never win. People like me don’t set foot in 770 anymore. I left NY altogether, but when I lived there, I must have gone to 770 twice in 2 years (for simchas) after my first bad experience there.
Look at the pics of the Chabad Simchas Beis haShoeiva in CH this year. No flags. Last time I went, which was about 6 years ago, the meshuggeners took out their flags and were ignored. The die-hards are crazy and no one risks their lives being beaten up for the sake of getting a looney to put a flag away.
The strategy by and large is to let local yellow flag guys burn out, which they do eventually. A kid who waved a flag at 16 goes out on shlichus at 18 and knows no one wants to see his flag, so he stops believing in it once he gets used to not waving it.
EY and Israelis abroad (the source of most of the problem outside EY) are a different story. The medine has created such a social, political and moral mess that lunatics of all sorts rule the roost as people look to them to escape the mess that the zionists and worse yet, the post-zionists, have made of EY.
Yellow flag, NaNach, NK, phony mekubalim, neo-Carlebach, very strange mystical movements among the settlers, even Elior Chen and burqas – and many non-Jewish ‘spiritual movements’ – all a radical response to the malaise of secular EY. Wrong answer to a very real problem.
??? If anything, Torah im Derech Eretz davka (as opposed to living a Torah life and working, which probably was the norm until the haskila came around and led people astray) is the 200 year old movement.
The old system was closer to Williamsburgh or KJ Satmar – the town rav ran a single kehilla, and you could take it or leave it. Even the village oisvorf was part of the kehilla, albeit perhaps its laughingstock.
If you took it, you were taken care of as much as possible when hard times hit and expected to contribute in good times. If you left it to go to a big city or emigrate, you were on your own but often found people from the same place and established a shul and small kehilla in your new place of residence (later more like a meeting house with no frumkeit especially on the Lower East Side, but look at all the shuls called Anshei-some unpronounceable name or any of the pre-American Chabad period Tzemach Tzedek shuls in the US and you’ll see what I mean). If you were an oisvorf, you hung around anyway and you were perhaps known as Shmerel der Oisvorf, but you were still part of the kehilla, just as the town gonif remained within the kehilla but was known as a gonif.
And as usual Zahavasdad blows it again. Many charedi BTs have contact with their families and plenty of MO do not. Nevertheless, only the Satmarer Rov Reb Aron holds that American-born Jews who are frei are not tinokos shenishbeu (I agree with him until it comes to people who are 30 or under, and who really are confused by all of the crazy New Age ideas out there regarding Jewish identity).
Gebrokts? That’s Chassidish. Charedi BTs who go through Aish or Ohr Sameach don’t give up gebrokts. Got news for you – not all Breslovers avoid gebrokts either – they hardly have any unified minhagim. Mode of dress? Maybe – but how far is a dark suit from regular business or professional attire? Again, Chassidish is not the only choice for charedi BTs and it is not even the usual choice. Chabad and Breslov are not as “charedi” as some Litvish communities are. Bostoner chassidus is certainly not hard-core charedi and neither is Reb Michel Twerski’s community in Milwaukee.
ItcheSrulik, what does Lakewood have to do with it? My friends are shluchim in a very well-known gambling town and while they have bailed out and tried to straighten out an occasional oisvorf (OTD or outwardly frum) from our world, most of the people they’ve helped with such issues are frei. I assume their colleagues who are near reservations where gambling is legal often help addicts or those who went in over their heads as well.