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  • in reply to: “Kiddush Hashem” Does Not Mean Looking Good by the Goyim #1769090

    Toi
    Participant

    The Gemara in the middle of the last perek of Baba Kama, approx. daf 114-115, when dealing with gezel/to’us akum, is clear that causing a goy to think badly of a Yid is a chillul Hashem. Obviously what they glean from watching us does count.

    in reply to: Hechsherim in Israel #1740073

    Toi
    Participant

    Rabbanut is a garbage hechsher, if you can even call it that. They rubber stamp anything with the shvachest hechsher from america, yoshon or not. Every american chocolate bar (twix, etc.) carries a rabbanut, as do products arriving from the US with nothing but a triangle K- again- rubber stamped by the rabbanut. Anyone who has some silly notion that the plain Rabbanut is a hechsher in anything but name is simply ignorant of the facts on the ground. The rabbanut is so bad that a Rov I know personally as being a tremendous meikel in every area of halachah told someone to kasher their pot when they realized they’d used fleishig rabbanut chicken soup mix. The only people in IL who eat Rabbanut are either not frum or beshitta crazy. The only people who eat it from the US are either ignorant or beshitta crazy. No one, and I mean literally no one, holds plain rabbanut is a hechsher in any respect. I’ve written a lengthy response before as to why. In short, the rabbanut was developed to be a most minimal standard from a legal perspective, so that people could not legally hang up a kosher sign and serve you meat they shot in the head. The body who formed it realized that the people whom they were targeting would not comply with anything approaching rigorous standards, so they purposely made it a terrible hechsher so that at least you couldn’t be served actual tarfus. Only a fool eats rabbanut- it is literally someich on shittos yachids and kulos that are well outside the accepted spectrum of halachah.

    in reply to: Freezer-Burnt: Most boys unprepared for dating or married life. #1665098

    Toi
    Participant

    I don’t comment anymore but couldn’t help myself.

    Just want to clarify this for y’all. Marriage is not the final product, the cookies are.

    in reply to: Happy Cranniversary! #1653616

    Toi
    Participant

    I just checked my sign up date- looks like I’ve been here since exactly mid 2011. Wow. From single guy to married with a bunch if kids. But mostly, just fatter.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1636510

    Toi
    Participant

    Okay, I’ll break my rule one more time, only because rso called me out on it. Answer: I was laying a trap. They didn’t say it, they wouldn’t say it, they’ll never say it, and it should be obvious to all why. See my sign off post.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1636474

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- “Also we see the way the Rebbe treated the Frierdiker Rebbe – on the one hand the Rebbe (the year after the Frierdiker Rebbes histalkus) directed chassidim to bring their panim to the Frierdiker Rebbe and said he’s with us just like before with no difference. The Rebbe even said that if someone says the Frierdiker Rebbe has passed on he is a pere Adam a vilde mentch!!”

    Hysterical. I’ve literally quoted the sichas you paraphrase here as a question on lubavitch practice, and you bring it as a source. Nuts.

    @username, Cs, et al: I’m done. I don’t have koach to point out every logical inconsistency, the scary crazy hanhagos, and research the points I want to make. I have a real, actually very demanding, life, and can’t afford wasting more time. I quit the CR for a few years until relatively recently, and now I remember why. At the end of the day, I’m thoroughly convinced that lubavitchers and muslims have something in common; the muslim concept of Taqiyya. You can google or wiki it if you don’t know what it means. I honestly have come away from these “conversations” more wary of lubavitchers, and see no tachlis in pursuing the discussion.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1636141

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- The rebbe’s hanhogo towards the frierdiker rebbe after death is extremely worrisome- his sichas that concern him are scary, and one cannot but wonder if he wasn’t setting it up so he’d be related to like that, too.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1636118

    Toi
    Participant

    This is great- username (and Sechel)- I’ve never, ever heard a lubavitcher willing to state unequivocally that the rebbe is not moshiach, and I’m glad we’ve actually found a couple. There are still unanswered questions, the practices/shittos that username tried to defend a couple posts ago (all seeing, all knowing, usually =Hashem), but at least we’ve narrowed the playing field from out and out heresy like wolf (and CS, sorry) to shverre taanos on most of chabad, and their inability to curb the “1%” (which I personally believe is something like 80%) from being vocal loony wackos. I’ll ask some more questions soon.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1635064

    Toi
    Participant

    Here you go folks, this is who CS would like us to base our understanding of rational chabad on. Mods, this is not a link, I left out .html at the end. Enjoy folks. Like I said, CS just keeps digging herself in deeper and deeper, this is insane. And don’t cry foul that I’m quoting beis moshiach. You supplied the name, I just found his speech.

    link sends to main site so removed
    beismoshiachmagazine .org rabbi-reuven-wolf-my-fateful decision

    And to chossid, and the others, if you cannot see why my posts above are accurate, this sure should clear up any doubt.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1635032

    Toi
    Participant

    So CS, to humor you, I did about 7 seconds of research on this guy. I don;t care about anyone’s background, I care about who he is today. If someone was noraml and went kooky, you can usually assume he’s super kooky. And let me tell you, he’s super kooky. He calls the rebbe “king” he proclaims that to mekabel the “king’s” “malchus”, you need to say “yechi hamelech”. You thought I’d take this bozo seriously? If someone told me to be mekable R’ Shach ztzl as the king, and to say yechi hamelech on R shach, I’d write him off as utterly insane in a heartbeat. Crazy people.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1634788

    Toi
    Participant

    @username- Your taynos are not relevant at all to this conversation. (Besides the fact that the answers are simple) My questions about lubavitch are on ikrei emunah, not laxities in practice. Shaving and proclaiming a mortal man to be running the world aren’t exactly questions on the same footing. At best, you honestly have questions, as irrelevant as they may be, posed to discredit the other side of the argument, and attempting to win a debate with character assassination, which doesn’t work anyway. At worst, you’re purposely diverting or attempting to hijack the conversation, because you don’t have answers, but if you can make us look bad, you don’t have to answer either way.

    As an answer to this:

    “IS A SIGN OF WHAT THE MOVEMENT BELIEVES IN.

    My point is that there’s no real “movement”. I’ll give you a Mashal. Take Breslov. There are Na Nachs and there are Yerushalmim. Is it a Yerushalmi Breslover’s fault that Na Nachs exist?

    (WE ALREADY SAID THAT WERE LEAVING LITVAKS OUT OF THIS)

    You see, I’ll understand if a guy from Meah Shearim, who is in Kollel learning all day and keeping all the Chumros feels that by becoming Lubavitch he’ll go down in Ruchniyus. I’ll argue with him over it, but I’ll understand.

    What I don’t understand is when people who keep less than we do complain how “Lubavitch isn’t frum!!!!” Yes, we may not be as sheltered, and Tznius happens to be an issue. But 95% of the people complaining about us aren’t Chassidishers. There are tons of people, who are more Maikil than Lubavitch in pretty much everything except for Zman Tefilla and possible Tznius (it depends against which Lubavitchers your comparing to).”

    It’s important for you to understand for full disclosure, that the world at large (certainly the litvishe posters here) do/does not regard you as another chassidus, one that happens to have drastically different hanhagos than other chassidusin and happens to missionize other jews to join their sect. Would that be the case, the whole “anti-lubavitch” movement would never have started. That’s why your argument above will never be taken seriously. It’s not like another chassidus that may be meikil in some areas and more machmir in others, (or have wacky nanachs that we think are out of their minds) prompting a discussion as to whether we’d be frummer if we were like you or not. Frumkeit is not the nature of this discussion.

    We have serious questions, and more accurately, very valid suspicions, about some practices/shittos your chassidus holds, that no other chassidusin subscribe to. These concerns include basics in emunah and hashkafa. There is some sort of sinister agenda, chassidus-wide, to try and “educate” frum, often frummer, yidden about alternate systems of belief. Our gedolim have come out in great force against lubavitch, and honestly, other lubavitch posters throughout the course of this thread have only served to shore up and strengthen those suspicions. They have proved proficient at either outright lying to avoid a question, or doublethinking/doublespeaking, and misleading posters as to the true nature of their shittos to make their view more appealing to the uneducated. So please, answer the very serious questions, without obscuring the conversation with stupid taynos on litvaks, or step aside and let someone else (profess to) do so.

    in reply to: Why no גזל שינה? #1634785

    Toi
    Participant

    Can you bring a mekor for the concept of gezel sheinah?

    in reply to: @Chabad Shluchah Please Explain Why Davening To/Betten a Rebbe is Okay #1633401

    Toi
    Participant

    LOL

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1633339

    Toi
    Participant

    username- the minchas yitzchak isn;t a source for what chabad does. He’s not condoning davenin to a rebbe and having the rebbe answer you/provide the yeshua. He’s “handling” the rebbe acting as a meilitz yosher- I already pointed out that CS admitted by omission this distinction is true.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1633190

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- Please cite where belzers write to their interred Rebbe to answer their prayers. Notice how your post trying to discredit my arguments didn’t say “No you moron, we’re not asking the rebbe to answer our tefillos, Hashem answers tefillos, Rebbes are, at most, a meilitz yosher”. Because you wouldn’t say that, would you, because that’s exactly what you are doing, and you know it. If you can show me any belzer that davens to his Rebbe for the yeshua, waits for an answer/yeshua from his not living Rebbe, I’ll be maskim. Disclaimer: Not gonna happen, cuz they don’t daven to dead people, except to be a meilitz yosher, which you already admitted, by omission, that you do. Which is A”Z. The only answer you might try to give is betten/mimutza michaber, which we already discussed is predicated on the rebbe’s sicha of atzmuso areingishtelt in a guf, which we’ve already concluded is kefira (as in goes against the Rambam’s ikrim), so that’s a bad road to go down again.

    @Chossid- Please answer, why Chabad desired to open a chabad house in kiryat sefer, the frummest chareidist community in the world, where there is no kirv to be done and no one to be mekarev, leading me to logically conclude that chabad’s desire was to spread chabad’s belief system within that community, and that’s scary and weird, because what exactly are they trying to do to those people? Also, please explain the video where Cunin (again, one of, if not THE most influential chabadsker on the west coast) proclaims unambiguously that the rebbe runs the world. A)What’s that supposed to mean? B) Why would no one in Chabad be mocheh or seek to explain what he possibly could’ve meant? Also, please explain what Moshe Kotlarsky, one of the bigwigs of the shluchim kinnos meant when he said “may the Rebbe look upon our gathering favorably, his presence is here with us now and may he grant our requests” at the annual kinus (quote from chabadtalk.com, seems the quote was edited out of the kinus CD, wonder why)?

    Put these concerns to bed, and I’ll chill out. Real answers. No doublespeak. No evasion. And honestly, I won’t even bother with the rebbe being moshiach now (CS tried skirting that until it became obvious by omission as well, not surprised), let’s just straighten out the basics.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1633303

    Toi
    Participant

    Great Chossid, it sounds like you’re open to conversation. I have a longer post that looks like it’s still being modded, so I’ll wait for that to go through with my questions before I address your points, explaining where I disagree with what you said in the above post. I hope it goes through soon.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1633194

    Toi
    Participant

    @Hoffinger- Classic chabad evasion: tough question= sinas chinom. Gotta love it.

    I don’t hate you, I want you to answer basic questions. Can you do that for me?

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1633051

    Toi
    Participant

    “but because they have been taught (and I was too – Boruch Hashem I managed to rid myself of it) the weird skill of believing what they want to believe.”

    This is what I’ve been saying the whole time- Cs and others have this unbelievable ability and proclivity to orwellian doublespeak, and it’s terrifying.

    @Chossid- I’m glad then, that I got you to come out of the woodwork. Maybe you’ll supply some honest, direct answers to the questions that other lubavitchers on here seem to avoid. I’m honestly interested to see if there are coherent explanations; when I continually backed CS into a corner, she decided that my posts were too full of hate, as opposed to too difficult to answer, and stopped answering me.

    “We are not davaning to them cas vesholom, we are asking them that they should ask Hashem to give us brochos.”

    First off, I’ve never heard of anyone, ever, writing letters to tzaddikim who have passed on, besides chabad, so no to that one. In terms of davening, we’re not discussing davening that someone should be a meilitz yosher, which is still a hot topic of debate among the poskim, but certainly has a lot of heavyweights behind it. We’re talking about davening/communicating with the rebbe, and asking for an answer AND THAT HE SHOULD DELIVER THE YESHUA (I’ll bring raayos for this, soon), not that he should intercede by Hashem for brachos/siyata dishmaya, so your tzu shtell has zero shaychus. Did you miss the previous posts where CS has stated she got answers from the rebbe? We’re talking two way dialogue- not a concept that any posek will back up, and not one sanctioned in yiddishkeit, no matter how holy you think the person you’re davening to is. Can I daven to Moshe Rabbeinu and ask him things, and for answers? Heck no.

    Regarding my choice of diction, you’ll have to excuse me, besides the logical and hashkafic inconsistencies and fallacies I’ll soon point out, I for one do not believe in the great tzidkus of your rebbe, which I’m sure you’ll take issue with, and that’s okay, but you will not change my mind against my personal research.

    in reply to: On Ben Peles #1631892

    Toi
    Participant

    @oyyoyyoy- I appreciate the compliment. Yes, I know people from the US don’t have a firm grasp on this issue. I’d say 95% of american yungerleit in israel don’t understand it either. You’d need to hear an hour long shiur on the subject to have a clue what’s really going on. It is not a one issue machlokes. It’s about revisionist history, with the eitzniks rewriting the past to justify their present. You can see how small this group really is with the number of seats they won on the city council, and you can see how deranged their current leadership is when they told the ostensibly more yeshivish/kanoishe oilam to vote for Berkovitch (a mechalel shabbos who desired the same for Yerushalayim ir hakodesh) in the last election. Some prominent eitz rabbonim (and I mean very very vocal, well known american born rabbonim who lead american kehillos) actually backed away from eitz when their leadership made that statement. I know that from over the pond it seems like a fight about reporting to the draft office, but it runs much deeper, and is more insidious than you think. Have you ever, ever heard R chaim come out about politics prior to this issue flaring up? Have you ever heard the chashuvste RYs in EY being so vocal, so forward and outspoken on any other issue? There’s a reason why their response to eitz is to remind them of what really happened in klal yisroel over the last twenty odd years- it’s because eitz’s whole worldview is based on utter falsehood.

    The ‘only side’ comment was in reference to the mashal- in Moshe vs. Korach, there weren’t two valid sides.

    in reply to: Summarize Lubavitch “philosophy” #1631119

    Toi
    Participant

    “The biggest of the chassidishe yomim toivim within Chabad.”

    Let’s keep it local then, shall we?

    in reply to: On Ben Peles #1631118

    Toi
    Participant

    Ah, see Joe, you are an eitznik, I told you. Will you admit yet that lehovin is a eitz propaganda paper? It’s a minute amount of yidden in IL, (1 seat on Jlem city council vs. 6 to degel and 3 to gimmel), and has just begun in the US because of these esteemed RYs. Don’t make it like it’s a “huge portion” of the torah world. That’s vaiter propaganda. I suppose a “huge portion” of the medical world holds that vaccines are dangerous?

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1630956

    Toi
    Participant

    @TT- Oh, yes, b’ezras Hashem, so should you, instead of your AZ religion.

    in reply to: Summarize Lubavitch “philosophy” #1630953

    Toi
    Participant

    Festivus for the rest of us.

    in reply to: On Ben Peles #1630952

    Toi
    Participant

    Newsflash- He wasn’t some major tzaddik. The rest of us will choose the side that’s in essence the only side, as the Novominsker Rebbe said in the name of R’ Shmuel. I guess you’re just a bigger tzaddik than him, too.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1630889

    Toi
    Participant

    @cs said”Gut Yom Tov!! I think if you understand more about what the Sefer Tanya Kadisha is, it will definitely help. To do that, I’ll write up a moiradike story a heard from a shiur in preparation for yud tes Kislev, maybe later tonight after I write to the Rebbe. Lshana toiva belimud Hachassidus uvdarchei Hachassidus to all 🙂”

    And i laughed out loud. You go write to the Rebbe. Did you know he is dead? Are you aware that attempting to communicate with dead people is assur? Do you care? Is he not dead? Have you decided to show your true colors now that all bets are off and you’ve dug yourself in deep enough that anyone who reads this thread can quickly discern that your hashkafos (and that’s being generous) are utterly insane? Holy moley.

    in reply to: “Lehovin” has the highest respect for Rav Chaim Kanievski #1630421

    Toi
    Participant

    Actually, if you read the whole article/piece of trash, which I did, to the very end, you’ll see that these idiots quietly slipped in the suggestion that perhaps R Chaim is being tricked/mislead/is too stupid to understand what’s going on. The implication is that R Chaim shlita (don’t worry, they make sure to throw in a few shlitas to pretend they’re not bashing him) is dumb enough to be led by the nose by lieberman. Read it critically and analytically. The whole piece is written with biased language, trying to undermine the Gadol Hador’s credibility. And if you can’t see that when reading this article, you probably don;t see what’s wrong with CNN, either.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1629674

    Toi
    Participant

    A”Z mamash tekef umiyad mamash. Didn’t you see the video of Cunin from LA (one of, if not THE, most powerful chabadsker on the west coast) proclaiming unambiguously that the Rebbe runs the world? Oh, ya missed that one?

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1627458

    Toi
    Participant

    I feel like I’m watching memes of liberals imploding. This went well, much better than I expected.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1626400

    Toi
    Participant

    Oh please CS, don’t equate me with this newcomer loonbag. That’s insulting. You may not like my posts, but every single one was on point, even if they made you uncomfortable, and even if I didn’t couch them in politically correct language to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy. But I’m not a nutto like your friend. I already told you, I think you’ve unconsciously done enough to harm your own position, you’ve shown what chabad is all about, and so my posts aren’t really accomplishing any more; you’re just too good at this for your own good. And for some reason Syag and others keep digging, like they’ll find some new info or rationalizations on the subject. Enjoy life down that rabbit hole.

    in reply to: Anim Zemirot and Shabbtai Tzvi #1625516

    Toi
    Participant

    In the yeshivish velt, A”Z is only said on Y”K night, due to it being full of Kabbalah, and ramozim, after the shir hayichud. I think that’s why it’s not said every shabbos- not to lose the erech of it. In fact, its brought down in halacha that if you normally daven somewhere that doesn’t say it on Shabbos and daven somewhere where it is said, you’re not allowed to walk out or do anything that would be mevazeh A”Z. I think this is the general idea why the yeshivishe oilam only says it on Y”K; due to its awesome holiness.

    in reply to: Taking a knee #1625145

    Toi
    Participant

    You guys are making a very misinformed hanocho. There is no such idea as free speech being a right, like an actual right, outside of the US where it’s a part of the constitution. In europe, the UK, canada, south africa,etc. there is no such “right” enshrined by law. So this whole thread is dumb, because who gave them the right to take a knee where freedom of speech/expression doesn’t exist?

    in reply to: Summarize Lubavitch “philosophy” #1624829

    Toi
    Participant

    And anyway Cs, I’m not even sure why you’re exasperated. Ostensibly, step 3 is the ultimate goal (or there would be a step 4). A goal is something you work towards, in this case, having everyone follow the rebbe, regardless of where they started out or the minhagim of their “kreiz”. Which, in plain english is, converting everyone to lubavitch. That’s the final step, and realization of a process. So it’s the ultimate manifestation of your philosophy. So say what you want, you actually agree with me.

    in reply to: Summarize Lubavitch “philosophy” #1624821

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- They’re one and the same. You know that, too, you just know that admitting it publicly will send your intended converts running.

    in reply to: Summarize Lubavitch “philosophy” #1624649

    Toi
    Participant

    Objective #3 is the philosophy.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1624520

    Toi
    Participant

    @Cs- “…And step 3: the ultimate (which sechel didn’t address) everyone, while remaining in their own kreiz, with their own unique minhagim and chumros etc, should unite under the Rebbe/ the Rebbe’s horaos and if this would happen for sure moshiach would be here, no doubt about it….”

    This is not “step 3” this is “objective 3”, which just confirms everything I and others have been saying- your ultimate goal is to convert everyone to lubavitch (call it what you want- it’s semantics), not about frumkeit or anything else. Thanks

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1623140

    Toi
    Participant

    DY- Motivations are inherently suspect when dealing with chabad. Believe it or not, my wife is a baalas teshuva who started becoming frum through lubavitch. B”H her family chapped things were weird and got out before they got indoctrinated. Hear from an insider before you write questioning motives off as being somehow immoral. Their motivations couldn’t be worse.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1622035

    Toi
    Participant

    I reread Cs’s explaining away and can’t get over how consistently illogical it is. I’m honestly floored you could write that reply. can someone please pick it apart; im far too lazy to address each crazy point.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1622028

    Toi
    Participant

    Ya know, the fact that you try to explain away lubavitch ‘bochurim’ going into other communities and trying to educate other people’s children based on YOUR rebbe’s shittos is not only frightening and appalling (get the heck away from MY kids you creepos) it’s possibly more disconcerting and revealing than anything else in this entire thread. You guys are so brainwashed you can’t even imagine that the greater frum tzibbur has other, more valid mehalchim of chinuch (I mean, just look at all the issues (tznius/drinking) raised above) than what you have to offer. It’s utterly mind boggling. But again, it’s the same reason you tried to open a chabad house/shul in kiryat sefer. You don’t care about making people frum (the event I described above that elicited Syag’s horror occurred on Minchas Yitzchak St. in Jlem, very heimish/chassidish/chareidi), you care about making them lubavitch. So please, no garbage about goyish nursery rhymes or pictures of camels being offensive or other such nonsense, it’s because you want to convert us all. Hashem Yishmor.

    in reply to: Is there a word in davening that you always mispronounced? #1621907

    Toi
    Participant

    Ya, not that I do this wrong but worth noting, where you put the emphasis on ve’uhavtuh in K”S will dictate whether you’re yotzei acc. to R Shloime Miller. I think R Belsky held that it’s obviously better to do it correctly but not me’akev, though I don’t understand why, as mis-emphasizing changes the tense from future to past.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1621583

    Toi
    Participant

    Oh, and Syag- it %100 true. They used to wake me up on Shabbos afternoon with their screaming.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1621443

    Toi
    Participant

    Hi DY, nice to see you.

    Anyone seriously debating whether chabad’s tznius standards are on the level of chassidish/Litvish BY standards is out to lunch.

    warning bells ….”More likely”….as in the Rashba was “more likely” bigger in spiritual stature than the chabadsker rebbe. You can’t make this stuff up.

    It seems this thread has come to a crashing and crushing close. There are no more ambiguities (except for whether CS thinks the rebbe is moshiach), and the lubavitch approach to the rest of us is pretty clear at this point. Also clear, is why they b”H won’t make any headway with the rest of us; when your doctrine hinges on beliefs and klehring whether the avos and Moshe Rabbeinu were beinonim or tzadikim of the Tanya, and comparing them to the rebbe who was ostensibly the only tzaddik of the tanya to have lived since, well, the tanya, you’re not gonna get very far. And thank G-d for that.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1621283

    Toi
    Participant

    @rso, yes it was a compliment. I don’t have koichois to articulate every single piece of hashkafic objection that this thread demands, so I sorta jump in once in a while with a prod. Someone on the last page (which I’m obviously to lazy to go back and reference) put it down flawlessly. And I’ll add another, the underlying reason of why CS came here in the first place, all her explanations notwithstanding. It’s the exact same reason chabad saw fit to try and open a chabad house in kiryat sefer, literally the most chareidi derfl on the planet. It was not to be mekarev people, because no one there is frei. It was not to make a minyan, or provide shabbos seudos to weary travellers. It’s because they want to convert you to being chabad, plain and simple. It’s the same reason chabad ‘bochurim’ approach little (chareidi, like very chareidi) kids in the park on shabbos afternoon with the promise of candy, but only after reciting certain peukim. Can you guess which ones? No, miss CS, no one is falling for your chabad game, and all your freudian slips just helped you nail yourself.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1620978

    Toi
    Participant

    BAM! and @rso lays it down

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1620976

    Toi
    Participant

    Still not sure why y’all are having this conversation. I think it’s been established beyond a shadow of a doubt that indoctrination from youth, coupled with a subculture that allows that bubble to expand, means that CS cannot grasp what you are talking about, nor the degree to which she’s brainwashed. You know you’re not going to get her to say the rebbe’s not moshiach (because obviously, he is), nor will she admit that anyone was on a higher garga than her rebbe (which obviously, they were) so why keep pushing it. We all know that chabad is somewhere between its own subculture/cult and religion, so why would she sell out to another faith/branch? I also think it’s funny you guys are focusing on the smaller problems within chabad, and ignoring the whoppers like hiskashrus/davening to the (dead?) rebbe (maybe that’s a self-answering question), atzmuso in a guf, etc. Why keep giving her a platform to spout nonsense?

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1619739

    Toi
    Participant

    Guys, how are you not bored yet? Do you not see you will not get anywhere with her?

    I don’t get it, CS: a)Yes b) No. One word. Nu??

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1618295

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- “…Although meshichism falls under the topic of Geula, its controversial even within lubavitch (as you saw on that thread) and is really at the end of the day emuna based rather than a solid hashkafa ( altho there are sources either way.) so id rather keep that out of this discussion as I prefer on coming to common ground…”

    Ya did it again. Is he or is he not? One word answer. A) Yes B) No

    IITFT- You miss my point. First of all, yes, R’ Shach was regarded as Daas Torah universally, in the litvishe oilam hatorah. That’s why his de’ah on Lubavitch is the de’ah of 99% of the litvishe yeshivos. Ask someone who was around then, when R Shach came out against the Rebbe, what the popular opinion of Chabad was. It was one of passive distrust at the most. He started the campaign against it. So if you share that hashkafa (assuming your part of the aforementioned tzibbur), that’s where your views originated.

    To address your actual post- I never said we look at roshei yeshiva as emperor demagogues (the famous maaseh of R’ Shach’s kasha on a R’ Chaim that prompted the famous line “mir zennen talmidim, nisht chassidim” proves that clearly). I mean that his de’ah was viewed by all as definitive daas torah, not that we were his soldiers.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1618133

    Toi
    Participant

    Lol, this is classic chabad skirting the issue. She will not, under any circumstances, state the the rebbe is not moshiach. Because she believes he is. but she knows that we’ll think she’s nuts for confirming that belief, so she won’t admit it. As far as R’ Shach goes, he was viewed universally in the livish oilam hayeshivos as the manhig hador. Literally the chad bedoro. No one, again, in the litvishe oilam hatorah, would dispute this. He was seen as the hemshach of our mesorah from the Gaon and his talmidim. This is common knowledge. So CS sidelining him and saying, “wellllll, if you were his talmid, then maybe, you know” is also a joke. Every.Single.Litvishe.Yeshivamahn. Sees himself as a talmid/follower/mekabel from R Shach. And yes, the issues he raised, plus the issues that have been discussed here at length, are the reasons why 99% of the litvishe velt (not baalebatim) do not hold of lubavitch and the rebbe.

    in reply to: The world is in a state of Geula- and don’t misunderstand us! #1617665

    Toi
    Participant

    @CS- Stop pretending to have any grasp on anything to do with the standard litvishe mehalach. Like I said, you’re so far down the Chabad rabbit hole, you cannot understand it.

    and you said-

    “…it should be the same for the Rebbe., who was not just a learned person in Torah, but a leader to all Yiddin , chief Rabbis, chassidish Rebbes, sefardim, askenazim, litvish and not yet frum alike…”

    No it shouldn’t and no he wasn’t. To compare the Rebbe in gadlus to the chofetz chaim is a joke. like literally a joke.

    in reply to: who is "The Gadol Haddar" of America #1617655

    Toi
    Participant

    Joe- Honestly, when you categorically state that people don’t know what they’re talking about, you’re trying to win an argument with a sledgehammer. Why in the world would anyone take you seriously when you base your opinions on some sort of secret access to how other Gedolim relate to each other. Funny that you think R” Shteinman wasthe GH, I definitely had you pinned for an eitznik…

    in reply to: who is "The Gadol Haddar" of America #1616931

    Toi
    Participant

    Joseph- R Dovid is the foremost posek in NA, regarded as such by everyone afaik. I suppose R’ Shmuel and R Shloime Miller would come in 2nd/3rd in whatever order you decide. I don’t pretend to be privy to the deliberations of any moetzeses, and you can believe what you want, but R Dovid is held in higher regard than R Ahron. You just like him because he’s also a pretty intense kanoi. Say it aint so, joe.

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