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You can call it shmad, or call it whatever you like, but the fact is that there is absolutely no real need for the bnei Torah to be drafted. There are at least as many leftist tel avivim as there are haredim who avoid the draft, and if all the bnei Torah were to be drafted, there would be a serious lack of funds and lack of means of organization to ingest them all.
There are literally positions in the IDF like “officer of sprinkers,” who, as the name suggests, is in charge of making sure that the sprinklers work…There is a position called “officer of pens.” His job is–you guessed it–to make sure that every officer in an indoor meeting has a pen. I can go on with examples… The IDF’s major power is in its reserves, and currently there are more reserves on duty than ever before.
If you’re then going to argue that many (many!!) soldiers from special units were lost zt”l and these need to be replaced, then you must be joking to suggest that haredim with no special background of physique training etc. are supposed to suddenly join the IDF into units that are made only for those who try their hardest to get in. In fact, there is often a 1:100 or smaller ratio of those accepted into those units, not even because of skill but because of the limited nature of the availability of spots in these units. In fact, most of those killed were high level officers r”l, and these are NOT going to be replaced by a bunch of Haredi recruits, not in your wildest imagination.
So the fact holds that there is NO difference now in the Leftists’ statements than any other instance in the past decades, where suddenly they chap a rein on a given situation whether political or otherwise, to try again to stop the Charedim from their way of life and try and force them into the army where they are supposedly needed.
All of this is just on the purely political, tactical, and logical side of things (and my sources are from very close acquaintances, as well as from my own experiences within army circles).
Now, let’s jump into what’s ACTUALLY important here: You seem to be suggesting that kochi ve’otzem yadi asa es hachayil hazeh – that it is our own strength and power of our hands that give the IDF their advantage. How did I reach that conclusion? Because you’re suggesting that it is important for bnei Torah to STOP LEARNING TORAH in order to join the army, which is now physically weakened?! It is the Torah view that we must make a kli in nature, but ch”v that this kli should be on account of Torah learning. ESPECIALLY when the alternative is not just bittul Torah (why bittul? because there are others who are more fitting to do this melacha in the current state of thing s- read the above half of my response), but it actually HARMS the spiritual state of the drafted bochur drastically! I know this from personal experience – my own experience in the IDF as well as many, many who did not make it beruchniyus because of the multitude trials and tribulations that service life has to offer. I can explain this more at length but this is not the place for it…
@whitecar
You must not be well acquainted with the series. In the very beginning, we learn how Dr. Middos sends a satellite into space which scans and picks up on bad middos. So it is neither after the fact nor in advance that the knowledge comes through, but rather WHILE they are doing the bad midda. If you’re asking regarding what’s shown on the screen, which is the portrayal of the entire bad midda playing out, then I would argue that it is simply a replay of the last few seconds.
And if you want to get really deep, let’s look at Rashi who suggests that the bad midda actually originates where the middos are – in the Nefesh of the person, which comes before ruach and neshama – the intellect and action respectively. So the satellite was actually able to pick up on the origin of the bad midda. This goes in line with the concept that one can always do teshuva – avodas hamidos allows one to prevent the negative action before it comes into being, in which case the satellite would do away with the warning.Comes in Tosfos and brings up that this would also explain how in the thought reading episode (the only such occurrence in the series – possibly because it is not in line with Torah values to be able to intrude on someone’s thoughts – see mefarshim on Parshas Balak, mah tovu ohalecha etc.), he was able to pick up on the negativity occurring while it was happening.
lchaim…
Your original post actually reveals what the ACTUAL cause of the shidduch crisis is! – The Shadchanim!
Why is short boys the biggest obstacle to shidduchim?? And to suggest that there is no solution?!
And as it is, I hardly believe that you spoke to an actual 50 shadchanim (maybe it was more like 5?).PS: a simple solution to the “short boys ‘problem'” is EDUCATION. Both boys and girls should learn to appreciate something deeper than cheap, shallow externalities.
It doesn’t mean EVERYONE should be OK with it, but that it should be the NUMBER ONE obstacle? If this is true then, as stated, the issue is wayy beyond the actual preference.
@qwerty613
The official Chabad beis din in EY published/publicized a scathing letter harshly condemning the incident and calling on all Chabad figures of authority to take action against it etc.
I’m very surprised that YWN did not make an effort to publicize this letter, but DID go out of their way to publicize the statement of a single individual who, while well known in Chabad, is not an internationally listened-to authority.Also, the Chabad beis din of Crown Heights published their own letter expressing their horror and outrage and the occurrence.
I haven’t a doubt in my mind that would they be asked about, YY and other public figures would not hesitate to speak harshly against it, but they typically don’t go out of their way to speak negatively about another Jew. In the case you mention regarding NK, it is a world wide chilul Hashem that they are doing and for which reason I suppose he saw it necessary to speak out against it (I didn’t look too deeply into his comments on the matter, so I’m speaking out of pure supposition).
Can you provide any other examples of where Lubavitch public figures have davka avoided speaking against the public wrongdoing of other Chabad chassidim?
I’d like to mention another inyan in relation to what @2qwerty asked, something that is mentioned (more often “in-between the lines” to those who learn l’iyuna) in Chassidus but is not often “noticed” or mentioned by Chabadniks unfortunately – there is a concept in Torah known as a “moshiach prati” – a private mashiach. The concept of mashiach refers to a daas Torah who in one way or another “redeems” another Yid, or a number of Yidden, from their own personal Mitzrayim/galus. By following a certain derech of Torah (70 panim…) as is laid out by an authoritative figure, a Jew hopes to climb to new heights in his avoda by following that derech. Climbing heights in this avoda effectively serves as an exodus from his personal mitzrayim, whether each day, each month, year, etc. This is one of the deeper explanations behind the discussion in Sanhedrin in which each Tanna will say the name of Moshiach, where they will mention their own teacher’s name. It is obvious that asked who the moshiach is, a Torah-based individual would mention his own rebbe’s name, because THAT is whom he holds to be the ACTUAL individual who has taken/takes him out of galus! Indeed, beyond this personal relationship, the talmid would pray and hope that his own rebbe would take ALL of Israel out of Galus, as the mashiach klali, but the two are not mutually exclusive. This is also why they mention even names of figures who have already passed – since it is not relevant in terms of following their own teacher’s path as the derech to one’s personal geula, since their teachings carry on.
Now, Chabad chassidim still hold the Rebbe to be their own personal mashiach in that same regard – we still follow his teachings, we still hope to spread his teachings with the hope that their light and influence can aid the avodas Hashem of other Yidden (no, it’s not the only way, but obviously we will be proud of what we have). I’m NOT speaking about extreme cases right now, just about the essential inyan. I’m NOT going into the politics, the actual practices of many Chabadnikim (particularly on this forum…), and so forth, I’m only mentioned the inyan as it is at the source, and as it is celebrated by a very, very quiet portion of Chabad Chassidim and which I firmly hold to be the true and proper derech that Chabad is meant to be (the sources are on my side…).
With all the above in mind, do we hope the Rebbe–being the figure that he is to us until this day–will still be goel all of Israel? Obviously that’s not quite a possibility right now, and part of the issue is that many Chabadniks can’t differentiate between their connection to their Rebbe’s derech that he set for them, and the reality of an actual living Mashiach. When thinking of the concept of “mashiach”, the typical Chabadnik immediately relates to the only version of mashiach known to them – that of Mashiach prati/personal mashiach, and they conflate that with the final coming of mashiach. Yes, this is a problem, but maybe this will shed a new light on a very, very old discussion.
@lakewhut
We have not just writings from 40 years ago, but even audio recordings…and many, many writings and first hand accounts of those who were there (so 1st and 2nd hand accounts, not so much 3rd).
Gdolim in Chabad – R’ Yoel was a very big one until he passed, the Jacobsons are major (YY and Simon), not to forget good ol’ Manis Friedman and his brothers….In EY there are quite a few that I’m more familiar with (I’m sure there are plenty of names of Gdolim of Chabad who are more in the “nigleh” realm – their names don’t tend to be as broadly known because the more knowledgeable Chabad Chassidim (and there are plenty of them) don’t make themselves very well known for their Torah knowledge, I’m more familiar with those in EY) – there are the members of the Chabad Beis Din, which the Rebbe ZY”A established to make proper decisions on the derech HaTorah as it pertains to the derech that the Rebbe established within Chabad – Rabbi Yeruslavski, Rabbi Gluchovsky, etc. There’s Rabbi Yechezkel Sofer who’s a tremendous Talmid Chochom, (I’m talking about nigleh now, of course), Rabbi Goldshmidt (The grandfather – who’s extremely knowledgeable in all chelkei haTorah – when he first received a position as Rosh Yeshiva in the Chabad Mesivta in Bnei Brak, he was asked to take the Heichal Shlomo test in order to be officially recognized by the medina as being a rav, so he took a bus over that day and got 100% on the test…), Rabbi Volpa is a major figure as well with an amazing wealth of knowledge, oh, and not to forget Rabbi Farkash! He’s an amazing one… There’s Rabbi Goldberg from Migdal Haemek as well, and a number of other geonim from the latter….and so on.Each of these names are an authority in his own home town or neighborhood, and Chabad Chassidim look to them for guidance on particular matters. The bigger Chabad figures – such as the ones first mentioned, like the Jacobsons, Manis, Shais Taub, etc… – are famous for their knowledge of Chabad Chassidus, specifically the Rebbe’s, and in this capacity, are turned to for guidance in place of the Rebbe – only it’s not so much as “instead of” the Rebbe, as it is “what would the Rebbe have told me to do in such a case? – And since the Rebbe left so many teachings to be learned, and sooo many letters answering specific and general questions in light of these teachings, and on and on, it is very easy for an individual knowledgeable in these teachings etc. to provide guidance based on them.
Arguably, since the Rebbe realized that the event of Gimmel Tammuz would eventually arrive, he must have taken several measures to prepare for that event —
(just as an anecdote, for the yellow flaggers among us – the Rebbe himself is the one who designed the compound of the Ohel, where the Rebbe and his predecessor are both buried, and if you consider the way it was designed before the Rebbe’s own histalkus, you will notice something very “strange” indeed – the Previous Rebbe’s tzion is not located, as I would “expect” if I were waving yellow flags around, in the center of the compound, but rather it was placed BY THE REBBE HIMSELF, very conveniently, off to the side, ALMOST as if to leave room for another kever where the Rebbe’s own kever happens to be today! Imagine that!)As I was saying, one of the measures the Rebbe took ahead of the inevitable, was to institute a practice of each chossid having a Rav and/or Mashpia to approach with personal questions. Very often the Rebbe would refer those asking questions to a Rav instead of answering himself, proabably in order to strengthen this established inyan.
And to @2qwerty –
Yes, obviously.I saw this post, and thought “ugh…another annoying popup!”
Oh noo, PLEASE don’t leave! We’ll even compensate you!
What a kind and caring post! And seemingly unprovoked. I hope you don’t mind if we delete that for you.
The Rebbe made it a point to base everything he said strictly on Torah sources. I already made mention in my post(s) that the MIDRASH (by Rabbah, a Tanah) is cholek explicitly on that Gemara, and in this instance halacha is like the Midrash. And if you were to even so much as glance at the iggeres that I sourced/linked, you would see that the Rebbe doesn’t ch”v make up his own views regarding these topics, but bases them on TORAH SOURCES like other Tannaim etc. who resolve the difficulty… You know how pilpulim work don’t you? Just like some Lubavitchers on here like mentioning explicit Gemaras but then you and others bring up other Gemaras to explain their misunderstandings…yeah, kinda like that in a way, but much more lamdish
Sorry for the third post – I tried looking up the said Iggeres and found it here:
https://chabadlibrary. org/books/admur/ig/1/85.htmI don’t have time to read through it in depth, but a cursory browsing shows that there are MANY MORE sources which can be brought up as questions to the Rebbe’s claim, and the Rebbe goes through all the available sources in this letter to back up the claim that indeed all Yisroel will be redeemed, including reshoim… If you have the time it’s worth a look, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on the letter if/after you have done so.
IN ADDITION
If you’re looking for a more source-based answer, here is what I got from a good friend of mine (who is much more knowledgeable than I am – I got this answer within minutes of me asking him…):
If you look in Shemos Rabbah – and the Halacha is like the Midrash in this case – in שמו”ר פ’ ג, ו it actually explains exactly the opposite of the way it’s described here
– if it means anything to you, the Rebbe has an in depth sicha on this Midrash – likkutei sichos 11 Parshas shemos, sicha 1.Furthermore, there’s an iggeres (a letter) by the Rebbe on the topic on the matter – Igros Kodesh 1, ieggeres 85
I don’ thave access to my books right now or I’d gladly quote from there at least the sources…
Regarding the supposed “contradiction” from Sanhedrin 111a. –
The hekesh is from the Redemption of Mitzrayim- when all those Yidden (other than the 2 out of 600,000) died, and specifically during the plague of Darkness so that no one would have to witness this.
IOW, it is not that ch”v any Yidden were denied the ability to leave Egypt during the actual redemption, and had to stay back…all the Yidden who were alive at that time indeed left (and there is even a [midrash?] telling of how dasan and aviram stayed back for the parting of the sea, and Hashem split it open once again JUST for these two (reshayim though they were). – it’s a separate question how it is that they left Egypt, if indeed they were the reshayim that we know them to have been…So too, as per the hekesh, we can conclude that all those Yidden who are not part of the 2/600,000 who will be alive for the redemption, will indeed be redeemed, whereas the rest will have to die some other way, presumably in a fashion unnoticed by the general public (as per the original redemption from Egypt)
@Rso
I take issue with what you say…
I’m not the biggest lamdan, unfortunately – I wasn’t in yeshiva long enough to reach the higher classes of limud, but quite a few of my friends, in this Lubavitch/Chabad yeshiva, are extremely well versed in Rishonim, Achronim, Ge’onim…Some of them, younger than I at the time, were well versed in several tractates, to the point that you can show them a Rashi/Tosfos and they’d instantly give you a lengthy pilpul (including chidushim by the Lubavitcher Rebbe) without so much as a minute to review the contents of the page (I have seen this several times with my own eyes, sometimes to questions I have posed to them myself). This is not to mention the ramim, whose classes would be your typical hour and a half of chakira into a Rashi, line of Gemara, Akiva Iger, or the likes.It is not very well known, I suppose, but the Lubavitcher Rebbe was adamant that Chabad yeshiva bochurim be well versed in Gemara, Halacha, etc., and that they should write chidushei Torah (to this day a booklet is printed in every Chabad yeshiva with chidushim from the students, some chidusim in Nigleh, and some in Chassidus).
So no, the issue isn’t that Chabad doesn’t learn these things. It’s that the “face of Chabad” is a bunch of simple minded children (whether adult children or physically young children is irrelevant) who give the rest of Chabad — that part of it which rarely browses the internet, like me, and which doesn’t take any interest in mindless debates regarding things which were never really emphasized by the Rebbe to the extent that these crazies make it seem — a bad name…
I give in to my curiosity once in a while and browse over these forums, with a mixture of entertainment and sadness playing a symphony within me as I read…and once in a while I make it a point to emphasize those of us who belong to a group within Chabad which does its best to stay true to the true path the Rebbe ztz”l left for us as our leader, living up to his example.
@anyPotatoKugelLeft
Makes me very happy to see a Torah-based kuntres on this matter having been published, bli shum kesher to whatever Chabad chassidim claim to hold as an agenda today (I’m still adamant that it is not at all within Chabad agenda to davka hold the Rebbe as mashiach in the manner that has been a subject for such violent discussions over the past few decades), I’m happy that a topic that is a subject of such division has been dealt with in a Torah-true way.I’m now waiting for someone to make such a kuntres regarding sleeping in the sukkah (I thought of doing so myself in a brief manner, but haven’t found the time for it). Oh no…did I just revitalize the flame in this thread that has nearly died down? whoopsiedo.
@lostspark
So coming from a Chabadsker, you actually haven’t named most of the major issues people have with Chabad, and which [geniuses – lashon sagi na’or] like you can’t ever seem to explain even according to the Rebbe’s own lamdus, constantly citing shallow understandings of sichos and jabbering about childishly about how the Rebbe is the greatest and therefore… even your engagement in such shallow discussions (on your part – the rest of the community here have legitimate questions and complaints) is completely hefech everything the entirety of the Chassidic movement (and thus Chabad as well) stands for, and in particular the Rebbe’s derech…since when do we engage in nonsensical petty arguments and debates?Some of the more major questions aimed at the Chabad derech are:
Not sleeping in a Sukkah, which is seemingly a chiyuv d’Oraisa
Eating before davening, which every other Yid on the planet who grows up in a religious home, is taught is not allowed kepashut
Not eating seuda Shlishis, which every other Yid on the planet is machmir on, nearly every shul provides it except Chabad etc…
The ubiquitous (albeit not majority) notion that the Rebbe, who has been buried at the Ohel (deny it all you want – you will only make yourself unworthy of any intelligent response) will come back and be Mashiach…For the most part the other taanos are just silly and unworthy of discussion. Like the notion that Chabad don’t learn Gemara and so on…the amount of people I can name amongst Chabad Chassidim who know entire masechtos beal peh, bkiyus in rishonim, achronim, some friends who have encyclopedic knowledge of Shu”A, including several poskim of the previous generation…. Other taanos follow suit in their silliness, and it is only thanks to mindless yapping children such as you (as well as CS/chabad”shlucha” [though what exactly is the “shlichus” of bickering nonsense about the Rebbe and Chabad which the Rebbe himself did not stand for] and others), that the taanos as silly as they may be, are apparently validated for the eyes of the internet browsing world….
In Israel there’s an organization called Or Habayit – one in the South and one in the North, you can try that if it’s relevant to you
I have just seen CS’s response and I am horrified. To say this in the name of Chabad is ludicrous, and certainly atrocious!
There is an organization FUNDED BY CHABAD which I noted called Or Habayit (it is not Chabad run, only funded by, and SUPPORTED BY Chabad rabbanim, very many mashpiim etc.) – and Mashpiim will ALWAYS refer the couple to a PROFESSIONAL! The Rebbe himself sent people to therapists of all sorts – including marriage counselors – and would give the general advice that this should be done, (only with the caveat that they be religious, so that they appreciate the importance of religious issues that come up etc. etc. etc.).
CS (Chabad Shlucha in the past, I believe) You have discredited yourself time and again from speaking in the name of Chabad, a huge organization that has official voices, and you certainly do Chabad no good with the nonsense you spread in its name….horrifying to say the least.
CS…chabad shlucha is here to give the Rebbe a bad name again…great…
Also consider Northern Israel…
Haifa has lots of Chassidisher neighborhoods, there’s also Kiryat Shmuel around Krayot area.
There’s Chatzor, too, and Tzfas…depends a lot on work as well, worth looking into relevant job opportunities in various places, but all in all the above northern towns are generally much much cheaper. (you can probably find a nice 3 bedroom apartment in Kiryat Shmuel for around 4500)@Syag
Please, random individuals who anonymously post things in the name of Chabad doesn’t constitute what “Chabad” thinks.In fact, random Chabadniks who you may have met and who claim to expound upon the teachings of Chabad without showing any sort of depth of knowledge of the subject matter at hand, aren’t either true representatives of “Chabad” itself. There may very well be a minute group of people who represent official Chabad, but Chabad is a gigantic philosophy and way of life expounded upon in thousands (if not tens of thousands) of works over 200 years…not a bunch of baal teshuvas who learned a few maamarim from rabbis who themselves never understood Chassidut, and go screaming subjective facts (yes, an oxymoron) at the world….definitely not…
@1a2b3c
I agree…I’m a Lubavitcher and I find this offensive…and silly…and other things I don’t have time to think of how to express….and takka it’s the opposite of what Lubavitch represents (a tiny bit more self confidence…)I’ll say this: if your feeling good about yourself is dependent on what random people from random places write anonymously about a group you associate yourself with…start learning more Chassidus, and try finishing Likkutei Dibburim from start to finish (and even if you already have…you’re obviously young enough to read it again and it will have new and different meaning every once in a while).
Behatzlocho
Ok sure, let’s define; what is a cult? (in other words, what exactly are we talking about before we go down a whirlpool of each of us giving lists of points that are completely irrelevant to that of the other? Let’s make sure we’re talking about the same things before proceeding. What exactly, then, is a cult as you are intending?)
(Hebrew based joke:)
Breslover goes to a gas station to pay.
Clerk: mezuman?
Breslover: bechavod!
Confused clerk: umm.. ashrai?
Breslover: ashrecha!Why did the pe’ah and the bikkurim go out to play? Because they didn’t have a shiyir!
Mods didn’t let my other Lubavitcher jokes on, so let’s see about these:
How many Lubavitchers does it take to change a light bulb? Ehhh the old one’s still good…How many Meshichistim….? The old one never died!
How many anti-meshichistim…? They prefer to live in the dark!
How many Russians? Two. One to hold the lightbulb, and the other to drink until the entire room spins!
How many Mossad agents does it take to change a light bulb?
We’ll never know…
In Israel the Blonde jokes are all about Kurdim…and I have to admit that it tends to be very true…so place your “not smart person” term in the following joke as you prefer:
A “person” is shopping around the grocery store, when he notices an odd, almost futuristic looking object on the shelf. Calling over a clerk, he asks him to explain what it is.
“That,” says the clerk, “is a Thermos cup!”
“Woooow….that sounds awesome! What does it do??”
“Well,” explains the clerk, “that keeps hot things hot, and cold things cold..!”
Impressed with the prospects of such an invention, the “person” buys two of them.
Later that week, he’s at work, holding his Thermos cup in hand and feeling like the king of the world, legs up on the desk and everything. Along passes the boss when he notices his employee with a strange looking cup on his desk. “what’s that?” he inquires.
“This,” the “person” answers smugly, “is a Thermos cup. It keeps hot things hot and cold things cold!”
“Oh! Sounds really cool! And what, if you don’t mind me asking, do you have in their at the moment?”
The “person’s” smug smile turns even wider. “Coffee and two popsicles!”
A typical father suddenly remembers it’s his daughter’s birthday….today! Barely finishing work that day, he runs to the toy store and quickly runs over to one of the workers there.
“Please! You have to help me! I need a birthday present for my daughter, what do have to offer??”The man takes him over to the Barbie section. “Here we have Barbie goes shopping, for $47. And here is Barbie goes on vacation for $42…. Oh, and this here is Divorce Barbie, for $480.”
“Wait a minute,” the father stops the seller, “could you please explain to me…why is Divorce Barbie so much more expensive than all the others??”
Well, explains the seller, “you see, Divorce Barbie comes with Ken’s car, Ken’s house, Ken’s furniture…”
Rabbi is taking a stroll in the park…on Pesach. He notices a blind man sitting on a bench, taking out a sandwich to eat for lunch. Well, blind as he is, the sandwich slips out of his hand and scatters all over the floor.
Feeling terrible for the poor blind man, the rabbi checks his pockets for anything worthy of eating that he might offer him. Since it was Pesach, all he could find was some matzah, but it was better than nothing.
Handing the matzah over to the hapless man, the latter grabs it and begins to feel it all over, examining it in all directions. After a few moments of this, he exclaims, “who wrote this nonsense?!”
“Many epidemiologists…weakening…”
Name just 3, plese! Just three! (Miyut ribui = 2, and many = at least 1 more…so 3 =])
A famous vort by the Lubavitcher Rebbe tz”l:
The response to the ben Rasha is, if you were there, you wouldn’t have been redeemed with everyone who left Egypt…
The diyuk is IF YOU WERE THERE, but since Bnei Yisroel have received the Torah, we became a holy nation, and sons to Hashem, and therefore in the future Geula, even the ben Rasha will be redeemed!Upon request I’ll mention some more vortlach, there are tons…
The name of the Chossid I mentioned was Reb Mordechai Liepler
I won’t bother reading the entire thread until now, so sorry if my answer is repetitive…
In the time of the Alter Rebbe there was a group of Jews called “misnagdim” (mitnagdim in sphardic Hebrew), who called themselves thus on account of their opposition to the ways of Chassidus, since at the time it was still new and they had some shaalos on it. These mitnagdim were the ones who, for example, made a libel against the Alter Rebbe in order to send him to prison in the first place.
When the Alter Rebbe was released, he was supposed to be sent to the house of his chossid (the name of the chossid escapes me at the moment), who lived on the top floor. The authorities who escorted him, however, accidentally brought him to the same address, but the bottom floor, where there lived one of the more serious misnagdim. Well hachnasos orchim is hachnasos orchim, so he served them both tea, but commenced to berate the Alter Rebbe’s rabbi and teacher, the Maggid, and the whole tnua of Chassidus in general. The Alter Rebbe listened and did not respond with his head buried in his hands.
The chassidim who were waiting upstairs eventually realized what must have happened, and went downstairs to rescue the Rebbe…The Alter Rebbe said something about showing kavod to baal haachsanyia (if any of these details are important to you I can look up the sources…), made a brocho and drank the tea, then left.
Since it was already after shkiya by that point, and the Alter Rebbe technically wasn’t “freed” from his imprisonment until leaving the house of the misnaged, where he had to suffer hearing so much against his teacher etc., then it is considered as if the “finalization” of the geula was on chof kislev.
Today B”H no misnagdim exist, since all the shaalos and kushyos they had were answered on several occasions (the debate in Minsk, in Shklov, and others, with the Alter Rebbe himself), and Chassidim and Litvaks have had numerous opportunities over the years to work in full cooperation with each other. Any hisnagdus on anyone’s part today is simply a matter of ignorance and nothing more.
Yes! We did this too for our pidyon not long ago; apparently it is a minhag that many Lubavitchers keep as well.
Defend Chabad and the like sound like either a. A teenager (at least mentally), or b. A Baal teshuva who began being part of the Chabad community sometime in the past few years, in which case he should have no say in such huge matters as the ones being discussed, or c. a combination of the two.
There are so many things wrong with the points being spewed around here…
In all my years of going to gatherings, hearing rabbonim in the Chabad community (you know, the ones who are actually knowledgeable in Shas, Shulchan Aruch, Chassidus, etc), and hearing Chassidim whose opinions are heard and respected within the Chabad community —and, more than anything, from my modest knowledge of Chassidic works—after all of that I have never seen such views as expressed by many individuals here speaking in the name of Chabad.
I wouldn’t care to so much as respond, but considering the many readers who might be exposed to this nonsense I find it right to say something anyways, just in case.
At any rate I’d absolutely love to have a conversation with some of these individuals in order to try and set some things straight… Pains me to see it.
What do you mean by “holiness”?
I’m just going to answer the OP without going through the other posters (I mention this in case my response reflects a message I wouldn’t want to make, in light of previous responses), as a Lubavitcher:
It’s sort of the difference between “Lekatchila” and “Bedieved”. To begin with, the entire tnua was anti-Torah (……), but once there is already a state, it hardly helps to fight against it, and so the stance is preserve and nurture that which accommodates true Torah values.
To emphasize: even today, Chabad’s stance is NOT to embrace the said tnua of Zionism. Rather, as it stated, the stance is to embrace that which adheres to Torah, notwithstanding Zionism in its anti-Torah image.
This is similar to Chabad’s stance towards Reform Jews/Judaism. Towards the tnua, no recognition whatsoever. Towards the Jews– we treat them as any Jew.
Hold on, please clarify what you mean that he wanted to sacrifice a korban Pesach? And how is it relevant to the Pesach Sheini?
And isn’t it true that the Jews were never *mechuyav* to offer it? It was only a chance for those who were tamei during regular Pesach, no?
It is explained in Chassidus (and if it is, like, REALLY, extremely important to you then I’ll gladly dig up the sources, including the sources in Nigleh — i.e. Gemara, Rishonim, other classic works) , based, of course, off of various sources, that an entire inyan is included in its opening, and subsequently in its end. For instance, the beginning of the Gemara will as a rule include within it concepts that pertain to the Maseches as a whole, and its ending can be traced back to it as well, as a sort of “stamp and closure”.
Well, Acharon Shel Pesach isn’t just its own holiday. You see, this is in contrast to, for example, Shemini Atzeres, about which the commentaries (Rashi…) explain, that it is like a King whose son must go away after being with his father for a week. So the King asks him to remain for just one more day; Shemini Atzeres has its own inyan, its own vorts, and so forth. Acharon Shel Pesach signifies the culmination of the entire Chag; that is why in many sources it is related to as a holiday of Geula, of our future redemption. Since the first part of the Chag, Leil Haseder was mostly focused on our redemption from the Land of Egypt, and the continual redemption even today (bekol dor vador chayav adam lehar’ot et atzmo…; hashata avdin…), now this last part is more focused on the future redemption BB”A.
That is why it is called specifically Acharon Shel Pesach, to signifiy that it is the ENDING and SUMMATION of the entire point and Chag of Pesach, that of redemption and freedom from our chains, whether physical or spiritual.
I’ll be happy to provide sources/elaboration upon request.
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GAON:
Certainly I disagree with the OP’s statements when understood in a literal, shallow sense…I wonder, too, at his intentions but I decided to take his question at face value…Regarding all statements mentioning “Misnagdim” (and “Misnagdim vs. Chassidim”), it is important to understand that these days, when the real, hard-core Misnaged of two hundred years ago is not at ALL what exists today. The terms refer to the concepts behind them. For example, there are many “chassidim” who are really not so much chassidim! (Many of whom you can easily find hanging around the CR…) don’t wanna get too much into here though…
Now, when you really, REALLY dig down deep into the kishkes of the concepts, Gan Eden vs. Olam Hazeh really are opposing emphases between the two parties, VERY ROUGHLY speaking. That is, if you speak to your average Litvisher Yeshiva bochur (and I have spoken to no small amount of them, from various backgrounds, and have heard many, many others spoken to as well), it is not uncommon to find that the end-goal, the ultimate purpose, is to, say, be a Talmid Chochom. Or, perhaps, to gain schar mitzvah and so on and so forth.
Now, Gan Eden is representative of a concept of receiving reward for your actions; of GETTING to some kind of compensation for your actions etc. And this, in effect, is ultimately the same as being a Talmid Chochom, or schar mitzvah mitzvah in the traditional understanding of the verse.
Contrary to that, Chassidus Chabad very much emphasizes the avoda that we do here in this world as an end-goal in and of itself. So, obviously, everyone will agree that that is our purpose, and other groups will hold that to be an ikkar. The question is in the concept behind it, what is the significance of this avoda. So in a sense, yes, Chassidus Chabad will often circle around this world as an ikkar more-so than other groups might, but I still don’t think that THAT is what is the one thing unique about Chabad that sets it different than other groups.
Regarding Polish Chassidim, of course you are correct, and I attempted at some point in my previous comment to so much as hint at that, but as you say this isn’t the place for such an arichus…
I wrote the above in a bit of a hurry and without editing so I realize some of it may be a tiny bit difficult to understand what I’m getting at…I’ll be happy to clarify upon request.
This is a very deep question that has several aspects to it, and can branch out to very many sub-topics if taken in the right direction.
Taken in the wrong direction–and you can bet that it will on these forums, since there are both people who are bent on provocatively stating outright that Chabad is the best etc. etc. better than all the others etc. etc., and people who are imbued with hatred towards Chabad, as I say you can bet that on these forums it may very well be taken in the wrong direction–it will very quickly (probably about a third down of page one all the way to page 24) spiral into an endless bickering about how Chabad is kofrim, changing minhagim, egotistical, but all the same do good things for the benefit of klal Yisroel…etc….etc…etc…
It really pains me that literally thousands of volumes of very deep knowledge have been boiled down to whether Chabadniks sleep in the Sukkah (a minhag they have kept for hundreds of years, alongside prominent Litvisher figures who had nothing to say of the matter) and whether they eat before davening or not (something which has a very clear heter in the Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch–and you can see his sources there). Of course I’m going to be required to provide sources, be questioned on what I mentioned, but I have no intention of starting any arguments here, just for the record, so don’t anybody expect any responses on these issues.
Regarding what you ask…The Lubavitcher Rebbe himself asked the Previous Rebbe of Chabad what are the differences between Chabad Chassidus and Polish-Galician style Chassidus (so you see how complex it is, here is a question only with the differences among other Chassidim, and you’re asking about general Judaism!). The response was a very beautiful one, printed in his letters and translated and collected in English in a series titled “Branches of the Chassidic Menorah” by Sichos in English publication (two volume series).
As an introduction, the Previous Rebbe clearly states that he will not respond to the differences between them since (and I am paraphrasing from memory) we don’t have tools large enough to measure these two mountains against each other. As such, he proceeds to explain what made Chabad Chassidus unique, rather than discussing it in contrast against other groups, since we want to preserve and be proud of what we have, and there is no need to compare to others.
This, I think, is a very proper approach. What Chabad Chassidus, then, might have which others don’t (and this is really off the top of me head just so I go away actually having answered your question) is a very practical school of thought which allows one to appreciate and mamash grasp (intellectually) spiritual concepts in a way which ACTUALLY changes one’s life, whether in avodas hamiddos, in our Torah learning, and..well our entire avoda in general.
In Israel they’re anywhere between 60 shekel and 120. I recall even hearing rumors of 150 for a kilo but not likely…
I was considering starting a thread sharing chidushim that Chassidus Chabad has to offer…but that would only work if there was a way to seriously manage it, and since I have no control over who can post etc. I don’t think it’ll happen. Because anyone can easily start mentioning moshiach nonsense and there we go again…
I use Head & Shoulders, as it’s the only thing that keeps the dandruff away for me…and believe me I’ve tried plenty! So in my case there’s a pretty serious nafka mina between shampoo and body wash.
To chossid and others trying to be “chassidim” here:
Have you seen the (handwritten) letter of the Rebbe (ZATZAL) stating that it is irrelevant what the name of Mashiach is? (And others similar?). And those times he refused to go out to the Lag Baomer parade because the “flaggers” of the day were there?
And do you realize that no one of the Chassidim of the Rebbe EVER got into such nonsensical, utterly pointless bickering to prove that “my Rebbe is better than your Rebbe!”. The fact is that the only thing that comes of it is that, thanks to fires like the one you fuel here, the world at large can’t appreciate the depth behind the Rebbe’s chidushei Torah–which is the only thing the Rebbe ever really cared about in the first place, is that people should learn Torah and “toil” in it–because it’s fogged up as a result of said extremists who have nothing bettrr to do than make Lubavitch sound like a bunch of children.
You won’t see the serious Chassidim ever getting into such childish nonsense, I promise you that. So for the general population of YWN reading these Chabad-related threads, just realize that no one on here speaks for Chabad, no one here represents Chabad’s views, and certainly no one here has the authority to do make the statements that were made (whether from one’s mashpia, I am certain, or from an actual Chabad authority, i.e. Hagaon Hachassid R’ Yoel Kahn shlit”a, Harav Krinsky shlit”a; R’ Kotlarsky, etc. etc. etc…
And just for the record, back at page 2 of this thread I had a post ready to send, but thanks to Netspark didn’t go through (unfortunately). I copied it (since I wrote it on my phone) just in case, so here it is:
“Great. Another Chabad thread. Let me go through exactly what’s going to happen now: someone is going to mention another issue they have with Chabad, then the Chabadskers on the site will gather to try and defend the said points, and al haderech bring up other points which will further be disputed and then it will explode into a full-on argument about Chabad and their issues. So since we already know what’s going to happen I suggest we stop right now….”
Boom.
A nice example of the types of convos we should be having… Discussing actual sources rather than opinionated nonsense…
Rational:
Since you care to deferentiate between Chabad and Chabadniks, please kindly share with me what of Chabad philosophy (not Chabadniks) you do not like?I honestly want to know what is bad about it — as far as I’m concerned it is purely based on Torah. And especially coming from someone who is “very familiar” with it!! (I mean, I can tell you that most Chabadniks aren’t even VERY familiar with Chabad philosophy, so hearing of someone who is CRITICAL of Chabad and who is knowledgeable is news to me!)
In fact, how about this: to show you how sincere I am in my purr interest as to what you have to say, I bli neder take upon myself to not respond to your comments on the matter unless you (not anyone else) request or allow me to. How’s that??
IN ADDITION:
I just remembered, another book which might be of interest to several forumers here…This is back from the days of the old Misnagdim. One Chossid of the Tzemach Tzedek (and I think he was the chossid all the way back to the Alter Rebbe, if I’m not mistaken) who was challenged by a very serious Talmid Chochom who was a misnaged, regarding several questions on Chassidim. One of the main questions was one of the change of Minhagim.
Well, what ensued was a sort of debate which was printed in a book in recent years called “Vikucha Rabba” ויכוחה רבה, which is fairly in-depth, on the matter…
I use Netspark for Android, which is on the one hand excellent for the purposes it is built for, but on the other hand can get slightly buggy at times. It works with a VPN, which is a huge advantage, I think, over others…and I use the Chabad beis din as admins so it keeps the device fairly choked up to the minimum (with the extended plan still offering plenty to work with). I found a loophole that works on my phone, and they fixed it for a while but recently they removed the fix, which is annoying but I won’t make a fuss about it again…
I was seriously considering getting the version of Gentech for Android phones which basically erases all of your apps except for a few pre-selected ones that are essential, but they don’t include essential apps for Israel, and therefore I can’t do with it.
On my PC I have Gentech, which is excellent and had several advantages, with one weakness (in my opinion) being that it doesn’t use VPN like Netspark does (which means that it is open to loopholes…). But it does the job wonderfully, all in all.
I used K9 for a while, but found that it is ridiculously easy to bypass. I have heard in the passed of a very expensive, yet absolutely top-of-the-line filter, which works better than even Rimon (which isn’t enough to stop the absolute tech-savy obsessive from bypassing). There was this site which went through every single possible loophole for a filter, and why they, as professionals, were able to develop a filter which is indestructible.
Anyways, because of its price I quickly forgot about it…