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> In this case, the people that believe in it have no interest. They usually are individual practioners, that just want to do what they think is best for the patient.
On another thought – how is this narrow focus different from the pharma focused in developing their own medicines?
The list of those who think it is avoda zara is long and includes most modern authorities, and the list of those who think it is not for non-Jews is shorter but also long (starting w/ Meiri), and it s very annoying when people quote sources from one side only, as if this is a football competition.
should we treat them as sofek?
I do not see anyone differentiating between different groups? Are they all the same indeed?
How do we treat individuals, who might be clueless. Anecdotally, one ger reports that when he started explaining to a devout relative why we don’t think that 3=1, the relative admitted that she never really understood why 3=1 herself …
Syag> he threw it out there as an insult,
Syag, just re-read it loudly using softer tones and you will see that RebE thinks that Artscroll is not helping students in a long term. It is a reasoned opinion. It is OK to suspect someone who always asks annoying questions, but you need to dan Rebbe of CR l’tzad zhus!
Artscroll may help some, hurt some, but beyond the first layer – they tend to simplify the discussion, translate with a certain slant, and quote only some opinions. So, I think, OK to use it as a help in translating words, looking up references, marvel the clear script comparing with yellow pages of the re-re-reprinted Vilna edition, but not to use it as a source of learning.
> I’m just used to google docs
yes, indeed. One article reports about a “teacher” who “successfully” “taught” 4th graders on zoom. when they came back and she asked them to spell, she heard a sound of (school-provided) iPads switching on – all kids were simply talking into iPads whole year and could not spell anything. I agree that this is arguable, as we lost ability to prepare horses for a ride; to follow direction without Waze, etc. But at least, if you can’t spell without docs, prepare your post in docs. If you didn’t, then THAT is a sign of disrespect, especially if you are talking to older people.
> but you’ll get through, everyone makes it through in the end
not true, many don’t get through – get on meds, develop low self-esteem, miss out on learning.
You need to sit down with the kid daily and entertain him, while building his knowledge and capabilities until he finds something exciting and runs forward. My parents made sure that I’ll know curriculum before the class, then I easily go and read further ahead while teachers were murmuring something. In cases where I was not ahead, I will fall behind and teachers would make my life miserable. Was I cured? No, as my PhD advisor asked me to go test for ADHD after I suggested changing the topic of my thesis in the middle of the program. One of my kids continued saying that he has bad memory (as the teachers told) while interrupting almost any midrash I tell him with “you told me this years ago”. When we made him skip a grade, grades improved and whining stopped.farby, when learning a sugya, try reading some general overviews that will enable you think about it before delving into pages and pages of details.
farby > i mamash couldent sit still and i started walking around
this is a good sign. During school year, try moving more during recess, after school while learning by heart or listening to a class. Have multiple locations at home where you can work, prepared with whatever you need – pencil, paper, light, so you don’t waste time organizing when you move. Maybe ask teachers to let you leave class once in a while. In lower grades, wise teachers send such kids out to do chores – bring a pencil, etc.
My read of the studies is that Ivermectin might be helpful when used early after or even before exposure. Benefit increases with dose but so do side effects. If you use it every time you are exposed, you may end up overdosing indeed. Positive studies on the site are small, large ones are negative – claimed to be done under bad protocols.
This is how it should work – after small studies show promise, you organize a large study that follows a promising protocol. People who are promoting this should focus on creating such trial. Given the cost of the drug, this would be an easy one to do.
Health > I can tell you one thing – the government isn’t doing a good job Stopping this Pandemic!
A good point, but if let’s look at _developed_ countries that do it much better: some are remote AND used quarantines. Many European countries have somewhat better vaccination rates and using a different mix of similar vaccines. Some may be using smarter masking strategies and measuring antibody levels. Did any of them succeeded due to Ivermectin? I do not have that data. Please, examples, but from developed countries only please.
> A person whose ideas are different from mine, or a person I find too thin-skinned, should be accorded no less respect and be treated no less pleasantly than my doppelganger.
This should be fixed at the top of CR!
Remah lived when Protestantism was just emerging, so we may want to look at later poskim also. One possible hiluk may be that it is avoda zara for Jews, but not for non-Jews. A book by two experts says so, but when I asked the first author, he said this was only because his co-author insisted so much, so I don’t know whether this is a strong shitah.
Islam was not considered avodah zorah in some of the times when they were even crazier than now, what changed now? Who said that only idolworshippers can be crazy?
Syag > Everyone has heard how the chofetz chaim treated the yid who broke shabbos.
True, but he has limits also. He visited a Jewish commissar who was taking Yeshiva boys into Soviet army and said that he did not come to give tochacha as he realizes it is not going to help, but he come because when the commissar will be accused in Shemayim, he will defend himself – if Ch. H were to give me tochacha, I would have done teshuva. “So I came to take this defense from you”. Of course, this can be interpreted as a round-about way to cause teshuva….
> Or it’s an alliance
Air Forces do joint exercises for a reason – to make sure they are able to work together if needed. Maybe as a sign to some neighbors, especially with increased uncertainty of the US position …
Avira > chazon ish in YD 2 28 and say that nowadays we don’t know how to give proper tochacha
What was the chiddush here if R Akiva said this way earlier? Maybe you are skipping over something?
L’maase, I am wondering even when we talk about people who did receive Jewish education in large quantities – can we be sure of the quality? We are now discussing seriously when is geneiva allowed. I kind of suspect that in previous times, this was better undertsood.
> Avrohom Avinu never looked at Sara Imainu
(until he was going to mitzraim). And mitzrim considered her beautiful. Either she had hair or Mitzri fashions were similar to Hungarian.
> As a historical aside the Vaad handled all communal matters, including takonos for religious standards. It was run by rabbonim, not askonim.
Vaad did address a variety of issues indeed. It included both Rabonim and not. At some point, Lita was sending 2 non-Rabbis and one Rabbi for each large community. Others did not reserve places to Rabbis and had some sort of elections. Later on, there were 2 boards – Rabbis and general, and ten they merged, etc.
Do we know any Rabbis who were involved in the Vaad?
Two people who sparred about military strategy passed away in proximity – Don Rumsfeld and Colin Powell. Both were elevated by Reagan and served up to Bush 2. Both pondered running for President.
But differed in their approaches.They are probably now organizing melachim. Don is arguing for giving malach Gavriel extra funds without supervision and sending him to China with a small entourage. Colin suggests a joint operation together with the Satan and United Melachim. Both meant well and each was sometimes right.
> Eastern Europe’s geography changed constantly.
yes, but to a limit: Hungary/Russia/Bukovina did not join Vaad at any time of it’s existence as far as I recall. Seems that Vaad would occasionally get involved into issues in other communities – when invited, and when Polish Jews were involved, and often reluctant to be involved.
Lack of capitalization gives the bochurim away (and sometimes stays past graduation).
Avira > think that in mamonis issues with goyim or especially with corporations and/or the govt, we are not to waste our money
I understand what you are saying, i.e. we should not give presents, etc. Here we are talking about justifying questionable behavior. And, suddenly, the same people would spend money on better heksher, on nicer lulav, are eagerly looking for tirutzim to do something that looks bad (otherwise, there would be no shailah!).
I think we are just not feeling same respect to dinim as we do to hukim. The latter give you a feeling of being “frum”, while the former – just a regular member of the society, nothing spectacular.
ujm> It isn’t geneiva if those actions are not per se recognized as “ganavah” under halacha.
Tautology? As halakha does not generally recognize breaking common laws …
Muslim would not be drinking with goyim, or Jews, or Muslims
Even if you are buying via computer and you think nobody sees except Hashem, the vendor is analyzing the data and may deduce profiles of cheaters: a Jewish zip code, school, music type
They may then charge the singer more or take him off the platform
Avira,
I am with you on not paying extra to IRS, and so does American law, you are allowed to take allowable …
But I disagree in business. People see what you are doing and opportunities for both kiddush and hillul Hashem are everywhere.I was once in an expensive course in job search after a layoff.. the trainer was guiding me how to highlight my strengths via light gnevat daas in a mock interview. I was a bad student. After several attempts, she stopped and said that she actually believes me more the way I talk… In an earlier case, a non Jewish employer told me later that he hired me over another candidate because I was asking about what I don’t know, and the other guy claimed knowing everything
Germans. No kidding
philosopher > Great people have come not from sitting in class and memorizing for hours, which is what education means today
But you need to give the person some material to work with. Imagination in general is a double-edged sword – it included both neveyut and avoda zara. When one disappeared, so did the other, according to midrash about destruction of the first beis hamikdash.
So, when a kid is sitting in a class with nothing to do, he will use his genius to create mischief. If you put him in front of an interesting problem and help him start going, then his creativity will have something to work with.
I was listening to a visiting learned speaker that combined two hot topics here – pritzut challenges in workplace and business ethics. The speaker proposed a list of humros to deal with the first issues and then went to a several kulos for cases like billing the company for the food that spoiled and was reimbursed by the hotel. He judged some permissible and some not, all with impeccable sources in poskim.
I was struck by the dissonance between being the direction – all humros in first case and just burning desire to make an extra buck in the second – and the great bonding with the audience. Just when I was thinking should I object when everyone agrees, I was relieved when suddenly the Rosh Kollel starting shouting – geneiva, geneiva
When I asked the speaker privately, he explained that pritzus in workplace leads to irreversible damage – broken families, etc. This still did not explain the desire for geneiva. When I asked Rosh Kollel, he suggested that for him business honesty is the most important parameter for shiduchim (I presume he took a number of other things for granted as easily researchable, while business honesty is not).
> Books are already very different from music. They are tangible
we are not talking about stealing tangible books. There were controversies regarding stealing design of the Shas page that people were putting decades of life to create. This is probably more controversial with Torah books – as we are not supposed to charge for Torah … Avira, thanks for bringing the sources
ujm: What “contract” did you sign when you bought a book in Barnes & Noble or a CD in your neighborhood supermarket?
I don”t remember, that was too long ago! When you sign up for spotify, I am pretty sure you are clicking on T&C.
> Dina Dmalchusa doesn’t necessarily apply to issues between Yidden.
this is not between Yidden, it is between the Spotify user and the company.
at the end, could the OP do us a favor – and ask his Rav or Melamed or Morah? And tell us what he heard.
coffee, maybe you did not the scheme – he wants to buy one copy, then give it to a friend instead of the friend buying it, and pay missing revenue to the singer and not to spotify.
According to a quick search, spotify has family subscriptions and is trying to police “families” that do not live at the same address. So, they obviously object to that. Maybe reading rules might help.
Vaad ARBA Artzos – Poland, Lita, Hungary, Bukovina, Ukraine, and Russia – that would be six, not four!
It was indeed 3 or 5 sometimes, but not 6 I believe … Hungary, Bukovina, and Russia were not part of it (and Russia did not have many Jews until it got part of Poland after Vaad was already abolished by Polish Seim in 1760s). Also, Vaad was a great institution but was mostly dealing with communal issues. Did this include the hair? Maybe a citation would help.a good point on Sotah: for some reason, Gemora fails to discuss what would Kohen do with the woman with shaved hair. Presumably, Amoraim could not imagine that Chasidishe women will ever be affected – or that their husband would ever be suspicious.
How is it mutar to steal from Spotify? If singers do not want, they can put music on a website instead of spotify. IP is not a very modern phenomenon. There are halakhot and gezerot when Jewish books were published. And even if it is a total innovation, it is part of the civil law and contract that you signed with the company you subscribed to.
philosopher v syag, I agree with each on separate issues – there is COVID but not ADHD or 80% of it, to be more accurate.
To add to on ADHD/creativity connection, fMRI seem to show that ADHD connection “misfire” so that a signal goes to multiple locations instead of (intended?) one. Of course, one might argue whether activating multiple connection is a bug or a feature, as programmers say.
Historically, it may have been more important for 99% of population to memorize and follow instructions to survive. 1% had a luxury to be creative. In industrial age, machines were built for right-handed only. Currently, we have computers to make computations, google to look up statistics, Sefaria to look up Mishna, and so many people having more “free” time on their hands than ever.
So, the people who make those unusual connections are more and more valuable.Of course, you don’t just “ignore it” – you need first to build the kid’s confidence after all negative feedback he was getting from school. Best is to study something interesting with the kid, until he becomes good at it, better than peers and teachers. Then, you need to give him skills to use his abilities: build something tangible rather than just imagine something that does not make sense. Then to deal with the lack of skills – practice at least some attention to detail, search Internet for things he does not remember, make lists of things not to forget, partner with others with different skills.
ujm, we have apparently one case of mass execution by Shimon b’ Shetach in history (who lived in generally very bloody and desperate times) v. opinions in Makkos that executing one person in 70 years makes a bloody court. So, how do we weigh inappropriate dresses v. other problems Sanhedrin will be dealing with – say, murderers, informers, communists, idol worshippers, pandemic rule breakers?
I expect a Rabbi Akivesque Sanhedrin member to argus this defense: as to the extent (pardon the word) of the problem in Israel – we do have some reasonable segregation in Israel, so that a charedi man from Bnei Brak needs to go out if his way to Tel Aviv to complain about attire. So, for one this is going to impeach the witnesses – either they are not shomer shabbat or they travelled to Tel Aviv l’dvar aveira, all dressed in black etc.
ujm: That’s the same point I made. After one or two executions the problem would be solved and the rest would fall in line.
But ont the point I meant! I mean that it is presumptuous for us to say that Sanhedrin will consist of 70 reincarnations of Hazon Ish. I presume it will have a variety of opinions and a robust debate. for example, at your execution rate Rabbi Akiva would disapprove of a Sanhedrin like that. It sounds like a difference between our visions of Sanhedrin is same as between French and American revolutions.
FDA advisors had a an interesting meeting on Friday discussing heterogeneous vaccines and their effect on antibody levels 1 month after booster.
notes (disclaimer: I am not a real doctor)
– J&J followed by mRNA gets to almost same high antibody level as mRNA booster (i.e. 3 total) – a month after booster, they are continuing observations. Delta included in this. Seems like J&J and mRNA gives much higher antibodies that two J&Js that were also approved Friday
– most heterogeneous results are same or better than doing same vaccine
– while J&J had lower antibody count than mRNA 1 month after, it kept the level 6 month later better
– they are not sure how B and T cells affect immunity in addition to antibodies.
– FDA would like to move very slow. Instead of asking a question “should we approve that”, they first asked “give us your ideas” and when pushed back, formulated a question “what additional information you would like to see”. The answers were mostly – this is good enough, stop asking us, just do full authorization, so that doctors could make free decisions instead of being afraid.Why is Lot lurking? Not mentioned when going to Mitzraim, but right there on the way back with stuff.
I think long jackets signify more self-importance (doctors v residents). Also makes it difficult to run after avoda zora (discussion between R Ashi and Menashe)
Rav Hirsch gave a speech on 100th birthday of Schiller with a bracha, I think it was published in English 10+ years ago… My favorite poet Henrich Heine was somewhat skeptical of Schiller, at least in his (Heine’s) later years when feeling more Jewish. Enjoy the verse:
Cholent, spark of Heaven’s lightninge!
Daughter of Elysium!”
That’s what Schiller would have written
If he’d ever tasted cholent.Of course, if all members of Sanhedrin will vote that way – then there is no death penalty, of course because deliberation is ot valid if there is no diversity of views … something to keep in mind in discussions
If we can guarantee that Sanhedrin would do exactly what Chazon Ish says, we do not need a Sanhedrin.
Avira, my question was partially unfair – there is also an issue of generations. As you mention, there were so many people going off the derech at that time, I would be the first to dissuade people from college at that time. You are probably right that those yehidim who went and survived had excellent preparation. I also agree on your approach with kids, I am doing exactly the same. The question becomes when they get a little longer.
If your kids plan to go to chinuch, then there are no issues. Otherwise, the question is whether they need to learn things required in the world – and many of these things they missed while earlier attending Jewish schools. I am encouraging them and plugging the gaps, explaining that they are getting same as in MO schools, just not at the same time – were focused on Jewish education first and now doing remediate work on English writing while doing AP History at the same time.
It looks like we got off women-gemorah topic a little. To come back, women who get reasonably general education, say a Law School, can relate to the issue of proving things, comparing different views, so if we do not give them background on what they are doing, they might not appreciate Torah at the level they are capable of.
Amil > I don’t see how ANY president can impact most crime stats
Feds, Justice Dept, can make things difficult for local policy by investigating them for violating civil rights of the criminals. Presidents can also set the tone. Remember Obama’s beer summit?
Also, federal social and economic policies can affect crime rates: employment rates, welfare and housing policies.
Avira > I realize this may horrify some, but I’m involved in chinuch. ..Interpersonally, one must be non judgemental
I am curious, could you clarify: if R Moshe Soloveichik have hired you to be a melamed of his son, would you try to discourage (directly or indirectly) him from going to the Free Polish University and to University of Berlin?
to bring you to those times, here are several professors that a young Yoshe Ber would encounter there:
Max Dessoir was born in Berlin, into a German Jewish family..An associate of Pierre Janet and Sigmund Freud, Dessoir published in 1890 a book on The Double Ego, describing the mind as divided into two layers, each with its own associative links[4] – its own chain of memory.[5] He considered that the ‘underconsciousness’ (Unterbewusstein) emerged in such phenomena as dreams, hypnosis, and dual personality..In 1889, in an article in the German periodical Sphinx, Dessoir coined the term ‘parapsychology’ (actually in its German equivalent, ‘Parapsychologie’): “If one … characterizes by para- something going beyond or besides the ordinary, than one could perhaps call the phenomena that step outside the usual process of the inner life parapsychical, and the science dealing with them parapsychology. ..Dessoir was an amateur magician who had used the pseudonym “Edmund W. Rells”. He was interested in the history and psychology of magic.
Eugen Mittwoch (December 4, 1876 – November 8, 1942) was the founder of Modern Islamic Studies in Germany, and at the same time an eminent Jewish scholar…Coming from an old Orthodox Jewish family, ..He initially wanted to become a Rabbi. During his studies in Berlin he discovered Islamic studies and did his doctorate ..In the early 1920s Mittwoch was involved in the planning of the Hebrew University and its School of Oriental Studies.[1] He was invited to Jerusalem to receive a professorship of Arabic for one year, but apparently refused the invitation. ..Since he was a leading specialist on Ethiopian languages world-wide, Mittwoch did not lose his academic position in 1933 immediately like almost all his Jewish colleagues in Germany did at that time. This had to do with a special intervention by Mussolini with Hitler on behalf of Mittwoch..Mittwoch used his “privileged” position in Germany (he continued to receive his salary as a German professor until the beginning of the war) on behalf of the Jewish community, he became head of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee in Berlin. [of course you would know only things up to 1930]
Avira > it’s not personal or emotional.
At the risk of being flamed from all sides for stereotyping, this may be a challenge for women in learning Gemorah. As most women prefer to solve issues amicably, they may be offended by the way a lot of learning is expressed. Maybe they can do it better.
Note that English forces respect to your opponent by having “you” plural, even if you are not capitalizing the opponent’s name. This does not extend to other people you mention, though.
back to Earth, there is a geomagnetic storm going on.
It is a shame of an article was published that bashed Mr. Biden for no reason!
I understand the yetzer hara of people bashing Trump and reaching for criminality trying to connect Trump Tower with Alpha bank .. but to bash Biden – there are literally hundred real reasons. If someone bashes him baselessly, there is literally no excuse. Laziness and lack of respect for truth.
PS Gemora calls us to honor any old person, even if he is not a Talmid Chacham but possibly had difficult times in his life. Biden for sure did. So, we need to respect and support him. Let’s go Biden!