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I wonder whether R Feinstein and R Tendler ever discussed this issue at a shabbos table, or maybe Rebetin Tendler had to reconcile what her father says v. her husband. Is there any information about this?
Avira > Aaq, a school that teaches gemara to girls as a part of the class that she must attend is definitely coercion
I agree that this is different from a unique lady who is interested in learning, but I am saying that, as far as I know, most people do not advocate for a universal obligation. Most MO will not call you to teach your daughters Gemorah. Furthermore, as far as a family is free to choose a school with or without Gemorah, and, presumably, the kid has some input in the process, it is not fully “obligatory”
On the other side, my daughters jump away when something might be a “mishna” or a “Gemora”. Maybe they were told that it is bad for a shiduch, not sure. At the same time, they are familiar with most of the material that I overhear from my Daf Yomi, except the pilpul and inappropriate topics. They just were not told at school that these are Gemoras.
I looked up again history of withdrawn vaccines and medicines. There are quiet a number of medicines that were withdrawn after multiple years of use as long-term complications were discovered. In contrast, the only problems that ever existed with vaccines were either near-term that were discovered by observing early tests within a year, or manufacturing problems. During last several decades, there were several times when a vaccine was withdrawn or stopped, but later analysis showed that there was no problem after all.
philosopher, what is the source of all this information?
all vaccines not producing b and t cells while there are papers measuring them?
can I also translate your suggestion that you borrowed somewhere (could you tell from where, please, so that I can check the source myself) into plain English:
“people should get sick with a new unknown virus instead of keeping away from it or being injected with any of the fully approved vaccines already successfully used by hundreds of millions of people”.RebE, would you be happier if Avira used only CAPITAL LETTERS? Or the true sign of respect is big letters for some but small for others? And whataboutthatTorahdoesnotusuallyhavebiglettersforanyoneandnopunctuationmarksalso
At the end, it is a convention. Avria can make a disclaimer that all Rabbis should be considered properly capitalized (if he thinks so). R Gershom Kamenetsky in a preface to his non-book says tht he is using R, and it is up to you whether it should mean reb, Rav, Rebe, Rabeinu, etc
> a physician can not limit himself to protocols. he has to know where and when to apply them.
I discussed this with mathematicians who analyze how doctors work. Main view is that (great) doctors do not follow protocols and general patterns, but they implicitly find in their memory a specific case that was similar to the current one in as many characteristics as possible and use lessons learned in that case. This is, of course, not working with a novel disease and a lot of disasters are happening while following generic protocols until doctors accumulate enough knowledge.
lostsparks,
yes I saw discussions of UV early on at ASHREA and other places, but I did not see a lot of follow up with that. Is this being used in practice? Does it need to be installed inside HVAC? is it a big job? Any precautions so it is not directed towards people?In most cases, opening doors/windows helps a lot. In some small rooms with no windows, add a stand alone air purifier. I think some of them are UV.
Health > I do that in my house. I have no control any building in Lakewood.
I understand. I am not in such a hoshuve place, but we have plenty of people who do not care. Still, a couple of Rabbis implemented some of the controls, especially those that do not poke in the eyes of the congregants who are against everything. Thus, HVAC changes went better than opening windows and opening windows better than masking.
I think if you have a good conversation opener – either a cluster of cases or a CO2 monitor in your hand with a high value – you might have a chance.
Avira > Also chazal say openly that one does not stub their toe without it being announced min hashomayim.
There is a second opinion in that Gemor and R Tendler mentions both, I think. (I am not on any side here, just adding info).
A general outlook on this problem. I think we need to first be humble and realize that “modernity” presented a huge new era that Jews were not challenged with before. There was a lot of upheaval after 2nd Hurban and this is probably comparable. We had several moments with very narrow paths through which Jews developed, such as Yavno; remaining students of R Akiva….
We are “just” a couple of centuries in. We lost a lot – assimilation, Reform, communism, Shoah. It is not just a fault of Reform that they became Reform, but a joint failure of Jewish communities that we did not offer the right response. We eventually developed several models that survived. Maybe if early Reform will see current structures, they would end up at YU or at 770 or at Beis Mussar or at a Tisch, depending what exactly they were searching for.
so, at minimum, we need to appreciate that all current shitahs are part of this survival process and we need to hang in together. We are now wiser than 200 years ago and a lot of “hot” topics are resolved. Not many observant people now are converting to traditional religions, or going into Biblical criticism, or leaving because they need to work on Shabbos.
I think it is zechus to a neshomah if his works lead to some interesting Torah discussions.
I am interested in the question where both sides seem to be reasonable:
1) we can’t follow Rishonim unles acharonim go same way [this is relevant when new books of old authors are discovered. Is Mishna Berurah using not very well known re-published Meiri, do I recall this correctly?]
2) we can’t go against rov of Rishonim.I am also afraid that we all use these notions inconsistently. I am probably guilty, but can’t recall particular cases 🙂 but Avira often says that others disagree with a Rishon or an Amora without fully showing Acharonim.
Also, does everyone hold by the same acharonim?
One item that needs to be clarified: secular studies are not as they used to be!
First, current “universities” are really trade schools at best or waste of time at worst. I measured with kids complexity of American writing using current school grades – modern politicians come somewhere between 8th and 10th grade. So did Andrew Jackson, I think. Madison was at … grade 38. This is about 2 PhDs or maybe “Dr Rabbi”. So, most people now are not going to university to reject Yiddishkeit for some other type of morality. It ain’t there unless it is Yale Divinity School or something.
2nd, we always admitted “yesh chochma b’goyim” and science developed tremendously in last centuries. Talmidei Chachamim were always interested in science and technology and I can’t imagine Rambam not learning quantum physics in our times. And all amoraim discussing natural remedies would be fascinated by mRNA vaccines. One used to have help from heaven to time his tefilah so that you start shmone esre at sunrise (there was no cheap way to measure time at night). Recently, I saw two Talmidei Chachamim arguing about a timing difference between two apps on their respective phones.
These two point do not mitigate everything, of course, such as
1) social problems when kids are sent away from home into coed places
2) all science does not substitute for Torah knowledge and attitudesI think we are narrowing down number of issues. Let me try to summarize consensus and disagreements. See if you agree:
agreements:
A1) A woman CAN learn whatever she wants and teachers will not send her away (Beruriah, etc)A2) communally, most agree that women need to learn relevant halakhot at much higher level than in previous generations due to change in lifestyle
disagreements:
D1) Who may/can/should learn.
The question is of a communal policy of mass learning. Some may indeed feel “obligatory” as part of sending to MO school. In fact, when I told one learned friend what high school my daughters will go, exclaimed “And they will not learn Gemorah!?”. Still, I think even an ardent MO person will not press Satmar ladies into that, so it is more of “mass” than “obligatory”D2) what are “relevant halakhot” – one extreme “candle lighting”, opposite “ahavat Hashem” that is so vague that includes everything
Chafetz Chaim is not at the first extreme with his suggestion of “pirkei avos”
Current BY curriculum is also somewhat beyond thatD3) how deep? one extreme – halakhot l’maase, another – in enough detail to appreciate it in current world including Gemorah.
RebE> should examine his actions and if not found a reason, than the fault is bittul torah.
Find me someone who paid all his workers on time first (as with R Huna there) and then we can ask him about bitul Torah.
I do like Avira’s definition of mental capacity for learning (limited, but hopefully increasing). So, after you are exhausted your learning capacity for the day, you can come to CR. I think many of us are already following this advice!
Seriously, CR references provide sufficient material for learning. And major part of learning is being able to defend your views against a worthy opponent. R Yohanan would have stayed sane and alive after Resh Lakish petirah if he could have logged in here.
> the only person’s birthday mentioned in the Torah is Pharaoh
I heard it from Chabad speakers also, so they are not against.
I agree on voting Moshe in, also because yohrtzeit is same as birthday. Could we do it twice a year for Adar I and II?
Avira,
I don’t have direct references other than the above mentioned Rav, who had a senior public position in the overall observant community at the time. I don’t think I need to ask further, as this is pure Daas Torah here – first person from a teacher linking to the Gemorah we were learning.I didn’t understand that the reason was “parnosa”, that is one would lose a job without learning hilchos nochrim. It is because one will be exposed to those people and (a) need to know enough to protect himself, (b) needs to know what to answer to both non-Jews and Jews he will encounter.
So, it is not “forced”, it is just something one needs to know n certain circumstances. You are gonna to be a shochet, you learn cow biology. Gonna to be a professor, learn how to deal with those problems.In related news, R Steinsaltz was not shy to (occasionally) demonstrate his knowledge of secular history and literature for no other reason than simply increase rapport with students with a good joke. Although, he also signed when mentioning his meetings with senior non-Jewish clergy, saying that he had too much of that.
As to the shock, these were undergrads from MO NYC schools. They were stunned that halakha is not a look-up thing but requires analyzing personality. In general, the Rav told me (when I asked) that his main effort with these kids is to show them that Yiddishkeit deals with difficult issues sometimes and requires thinking. He did not need this effort with non-O kids who would be excited to ponder issues to begin with.
Health > I guess you didn’t get the Gist of my post before. The Frum people here, at least most of them, couldn’t care less about Covid.
I understood that before, and this probably clarifies your overall interest in treatment v. vaccine.
This is exactly why I am proposing an improvement that does not rely on public involvement. Would administration agree to changing HVAC setting to higher outside air, changing a filter, or keeping a door/window open? If there is a cluster of cases tied to a place, hopefully administration will listen.
In some cases, this can be done without consulting anyone. If you are able to change HVAC setting and it will cost them money for extra heating, send a donation or tell me where to send it.
RebE > the problem is if one thinks he is desensitized but he is not.
Agree. But also, there should be a tangible goal why you need it. Otherwise, even a small risk is not justified.
Gadol > any time spent beyond that necessary to engage in essential life-supporting functions
I think, this is a definition of Toraso Umanoso.
I also think some people here define “learning” time narrowly. IMHO, any discussion that involves clarification or application of Torah principles qualifies. Of course, if the discussion is done badly, without integrity, trying to defend your position rather than clarify the truth, it is bad Torah learning. In that sense, CR is riskier than memorizing a Mishna.
Avira > Bochurim who go a whole week without showering
Can’t skip a good joke let me know when you have one…edited
Sociologically, I think this is an endearing example of how we get attached to minhagim, even when cold-headed halachik analysis differ (some might call this :minhag shtus”). If Chabad were to have started in Tzfat, this might not have happened. But it became a point of contention (whether back in Belorussia or in NYC) and so it became an important height to defend. Can someone check with Chabad of Hawaii if they also think that it is too cold outside? So, if our choice is to characterize them as rebels or istani, maybe the latter is preferable?
In all such cases, I would be happy if people at least acknowledge that they are doing something unusual and respect the rest of klal Isroel. A similar (you may disagree) case is people who not just keep cholov isroel, but consider the plates of others “treif” and similar cases.
recent study from Sweden, comparing family members of an immune person v. comparable non-immune person. 50% reduction in transmission due to immune person. That is (my inference), half of transmissions are within families. This is pre-delta, same effect for disease, one or two vaccines and relatively early after vaccines. They caution that delta transmission may be higher under 1 vaccine.
In other news, US blood donors are now 83% immune as of July, of which 20% are naturally. 65+ are 92% of which 11% naturally (age is wisdom). Blood donors are not the same as overall distribution, of course. I presume most stubborn deniers of everything, do not part with their blood easily.
My projection: number of vaccinated people increases by 3% a month, number of cases by 2% (1% detected, 2x ratio of detected to not detected). So, US will be almost fully immune in a couple of months, not counting the most stubborn population.
Health,
so if you are in Lakewood, maybe you want to follow up with the mosdos where cases are coming from and check their CO2 levels and train them to set HVAC correctly, open windows, etc in case they are not doing this. If you are short on funds or time, let’s arrange a dead drop near BMG where I can arrange to drop a monitor for you, or you can leave a list of mosdos to work with.for Syag,
I just looked up a recent case study from a Belgium 1-12 school where traced cases at school as much as they could. Teachers were masked, students were not. Ths is pre-delta. They were able to trace about half of cases to either in-school or at-home transmission. The rest are unknown. So, school and home have a significant part. Among known transmissions, 2/3 were at school, 1/3 at home. School ones were about equally distributed between adult-adult, adult-child, child-child.the story I brought above brings a nafka mina for this minhag: when someone else sleeps in a Chabad Sukkah. Are you istanis and respect the sleeping person for his strength, or are you upset that the other person does not feel the kedusha and thus you can’t fall asleep in your house while the guest is snorring outside oblivious to mittele rebbe ushpeznut.
> doesn’t apply to individuals who think that they’re strong enough
To clarify, the psak was not about watching mindless movies, but about taking a college class in comparative religions. If someone is planning to be in academia or politics, he should. If someone simply wants to satisfy his wild imagination, should not.
It came up in Sanhedrin, where R Eleizer teaches different types of Avoda Zara to R Akiva by showing different types of magical cucumbers and explaining which ones are really hayav misa and which ones are fake. He also laments that others did not ask questions.
The Rav said that he gets this question every year.
Students- nu, what’s the answer?
Rav – depends on who is asking.
Students <shocked>.Avira > how weak can you be that you’re so easily influenced
I have explicit psak that the answer depends on the person’s character and life plan. If you plan to go into situations where you need to know this and you can handle it, then you can or should. If not – not.
Thus, assumption that everyone can handle external info is indeed not correct. I can imagine that a MO Rav will tell it to people who are already pre-selected for this. It does not mean that this Rav would say it to a Jew in different circumstances. Sometimes, speakers do not delineate the boundaries explicitly and address people in front of them. A mistake to assume that the same advise will be given to other people (or that this Rav is even qualified to give psak to a different group).
Avira > i never said a kid will learn in practice that it’s ok, i was saying that the influence is subliminal
I get it. Rav Twersky writes about people who work in places where inappropriate language and attitudes are used (not just coarse, but just not nice enough) and then, eventually, bring it into homes. He calls on all of us to guard ourselves when we come home (or to CR).
common > I make sure the all my interactions with others should reflect a positive image
indeed, R Salanter says that one should always advocate for Yiddishkeit, sometimes even with words.
common, I understand the feeling, but is this really wrong for a non-Jew to take a picture on their own – other than the objections from my post.
As to positive image, I was once approached by an excited Mexican-extraction soldier in Alabama, who used to know some Jews back in Mexico. He was apparently watching me for a week, and, I guess, found me worthy. We know Who is watching, but sometimes do not know who else …
DY > Yeshivos are still not fully government funded
is there a percentage? This may be hard to get to the one number, given various subsidies – directly to students, daycare subsidies, subsidies per child, etc. Using R Schach’s reasoning – if subsidies are 80% or higher, you probably won’t be able to restore the funding without the government.
It may be instructive to compute subsidy per person over time and overlay as a percentage of budget. If you then project population growth, ken yirbu, you can estimate a breaking point when this system becomes unsustainable. I don’t understand the data enough to compute this.
coffee > I thought the reason was because then the government will tie kfirah into giving the money
In this particular case, R Schach gave both the answer and the reason above. I presume politicians would not “buy” an answer even from a gadol when a large monetary loss is involved 🙂
The conditional money case is interesting and might have happened at other times. Might happen again with the current government. I think Liberman wants to introduce math and other kfiros into Charedi system. Not sure whether this currently stands.
answer to my previous question – 4.
Syag, Pirkei Avos suggests davening for the government so that people will not swallow each other alive. Even non-democratic. Rosh Hashona yomi – we were dating documents using years of the current King, Jewish or even more for non-Jewish, so that we stay in the good graces of the government. We all here seem to live in free countries, whether with or without a Queen. Our ability to kvetch about the government is a privilege.
As to democracy: you may think that some decisions are unreasonable, but they are taken via a democratic process to which those in our families who came to this country “swore or affirmed” to – unless your ancestors came as accountants on Mayflower or as slaves (or as prisoners to AU).
Anyone is free to get out of the contract and go to a Cuba or to a North Korea.that said, people need to understand each other better.
Once a visiting non-Chabad chusid came to sleep in a sukkah at a college Chabad House. Chabad Rov came in and said, semi-humorously, “no sleeping in my sukkah”. The guy did not say a word, got up and left before anyone realized what is happening. Closest other sukkah was 30 minutes away. The Rov did not feel well. The chusid came back for the morning minyan as if nothing happened.TU > how much viral load would there be floating around without ventilation and what % is rendered non-viable or is expelled altogether
Rather than relying on the studies, I did tests myself using air quality monitor:
A fully closed small office with 6 computer seats and reasonable ventilation: CO2 level stays normal with 1 person, starts going up after 10 minutes with 2 people. With one door open to an internal corridor, stays normal with 3 people. PPMs stayed low in all cases (except when there was a BBQ outside), that is this particular HVAC was filtering something out, but HVAC outside air intake is low.A shul with 10 people with place for 40 – CO2 goes up with HVAC and everything closed. Is normal with a door and 3 windows half-open.
This adds – just opening the door to the corridor helps.
2scents:> You are basing this on the assumption that.
> a. More exposure equals greater viral load.
yes, if two people are nearby, one is puffing virus, virus stays in the aerosol, ventilation is not working, the second person continues inhaling aerosol. I saw similar logic in multiple research papers on the topic.> b. Once someone is infected, additional contact with other infected persons will result in a greater viral load.
only in a short time period. If one exposure leads to immune system reacting, then further exposures days later will be mitigated by the developed antibodies.
> c. Greater viral load is a factor as to how effective the immune response will be.
Yes. Virus starts with the initial intake, and then starts replicating. At the same time, immune system starts reacting. It is a race depends on initial starting point and quality of carious systems. Again, this is documented.
> d. Better ventilation reduces viral load and additional infections.
Yes, Ventilation removes aerosol containing virus. Best is increase in outside air intake. Many HVACs have a control – put outside intake to the maximum possible. Opening windows is as good. If can’t do it continuously, open windows every 30 minutes or so.
Historical trivia: some houses built in 1920s have huge heat radiators covered by metal enclosures. They were built (sans enclosures) after 1918 flu with the goal of being able to open windows to ventilate and run heating at the same time. When Great Depression came and also fear of flu decreased, they put enclosures to slow down heating as it was too expensive.
If air is circulated, filters should be MERV-15, I think, or better – need to check what HVAC can handle. The higher the filtration, the harder HVAC needs to work, there might be a limit.
Also, see that HVAC is not blowing directly from one person to another.
There were early suggestions to use dividers. This changed – dividers may create areas of non-circulating air. So, ok to put a couple in strategic areas – near a teacher or a cashier, for example, but not on all sides near every student.
It is possible. As my daughter said 1.5 years ago: “if everyone in the country stayed at home for 2 weeks, this will be finished”. Then, she corrected herself “the whole world”…
But the question also is: if a reasonable democratic government selects a policy, are we allowed to disregard it because we disagree with part of it. If there is, say, a vaccine mandate, are we allowed to forge a document to go do a mitzva?
The question is really “what is the right thing to do”, not “what we can get away with”. Because, if Hashem does not agree with us, there is no point in trying to get to the minyan when shaarei shamayim are closed.
RebE > Fiddler of Roof also teaches that going a little off the derech leads to going off the derech ending with marrying a goy.
This also teach about what was happening with the Jews at that period. A deep view at one family v. reading books on sociology. And, of course, it is much more likely that the kids now will view the movie than read a sociology book.
The questions that Avira raises depend on the person and background. One of my friends, a Chabad Rabbi in Midwest, had a kid watching a movie together with regular Jewish school kids. While all kids were enjoying the action, this kid ran out crying… So, will some kids learn from Disney that it is OK for a single lady to stay with seven little gentlemen? for some it sounds preposterous, for others it may be the case.
2scents, Syag – prolonged contact seems to be more dangerous.
A simple explanation, not sure whether it captures the whole phenomenon: a person gets initial load, immune system starts reacting. Now, it is a race – virus propagating deeper and doing it’s job or immunity building up. So, the more initial load is, the more chances that the virus will win over immunity. There are a lot of secondary indicators of this: cases at home; increase in cases in US South during summer (AC, less outdoors) and in the North during winter (heat, less outdoors).
Other than that, may depend on the lifestyle. I presume that the kids spend most of the day at school, adults at work and in shul and beis midrash. If someone spends the day in the airport, talking to passerbys in the mall, in medical offices, then, of course, they are at risk there also.
But I presume that airports and malls do HVAC and most responsible medical offices (most of our doctors sent us email about that months ago). I helped a couple of mosdos on this, but don’t know what the overall picture is.
back to the sukkah, I think there are legitimate reasons to consider this whole dor istanis, given our lifestyle. We also have different attitudes towards dwellings – we do not have dirt floors, people travelling for work sleep in separate rooms instead of the inn bar, etc. Add to that Ashkenazi habit of not sleeping in the sukkah for hundreds of years due to weather and even if NY is slightly warmer than Lyadi, the danger outside (where the honest people are behind bars) compensates. We all know that it is easier to accept a new explanation to a minhag than to change the minhag! You would not be wearing Polish clothes otherwise. So, there is some support to Lubavicher sensitivity to people’s sensitivities.
Even if you look at classical examples of instanis from a quick Google. I am 4 out of 6, and I know those who are 6 out of 6 🙂 What are you?
1. walking in non-leather shoes on 9AV [Rabbi Shlomo Oiyrbach allows because nowadays we all “istanis” (הליכות שלמה ×”, טז-×™×–).]
2. someone who is disgusted by drinking from a cup where someone else drank (Tamid 27b)
3. someone too delicate to work (Sotah 11a)
4. someone too delicate to bathe in cold water (Yoma 31b and Yoma 34b)
5. an overly sensitive person whose days are made worse from constantly encountering unpleasant situations (Sanhedrin 100b and Bava Batra 145b)
6. requiring a daily bath (Berachot 16b)I understand that there are 2 issues: influence on the country and economic matters.
On the first, I hope all flavors of religious Jews can come to a common platform. Maybe this requires some accommodation by increasing number of non-Haredim in positions of religious power. This will make the religious coalition stronger, not weaker, by bringing everyone, within halacha, into one bloc.
On the second, it is unsustainable to require unwilling Israeli public to continue paying tzedokah and not complain. When Begin proposed to pay fully for Charedi schools, Rav Schach instructed Charedi politicians not to accept anything beyond the previous partial arrangement. His argument was: at some point, a different government will not be willing to pay, and you will dismantle your own support system already. Not sure why R Schach’s position is rejected now, unless I am not aware that he changed it later on.
aposhiteyid, here in US we had such lockdowns for very short time period early on.
I saw R Heineman (Baltimore) being asked whether several families can stand in their backyards and daven together. This would be within rules and the questioner was concerned whether this will constitute “one minyan”. The Rov answered that a passerby may not see a difference between standing on one yard or many yards, he’ll just see Jews doing something. As the result, he opined, when there will be a lack of ventilators, someone might decide not to give it to the Jewish person.
Rov was using accumulated century of Jewish wisdom of how non-Jews may be suspicious of us. You are looking at the sunny side of a modern society, expecting everyone to look favorably at you. It might be so for a moment – until it is not.
how many people are not posting but reading? Site owners might count unique IPs
ujm > Once you saw it you cannot unsee it.
I am suggesting using software to delete or maybe “cover” the scenes. I am sure there is something out there, social media routinely censors nudity.
maskil, I am not advocating movies, just trying to be helpful to those who are looking for some. I agree with Avira on most of his points here.
The sad fact is that current generation is reading less and prefer visual-audio information. Maybe they just want easy information. This is general society trend and it is propagating into Jewish community. So beyond social distancing, we need some medicine and vaccine for it also.
an old joke:
– do you have a book “how to read a book”
– yes, we do
– do you have it on tape?Shimon > that her answering her questions inspired her to become a baalas teshuva
+1
Many people understand that. I was at the kosel many years ago and saw some Nordic people approaching a couple of haredim asking nicely whether they can make a photo. Haredim answered something confusing in a mixture of English and Yiddish. When the tourists left, I asked them curiously what is the isur in making photos (this was obviously pre-instagram). They answered in perfect English that they do not want their photos to end up in some Nordic houses of worship, but if I want to make pictures and take them to US and maybe inspire some Jewish people, they’ll be happy to oblige.for the practitioners out here,
so you get calls from people who got sick. These people are indicators that they were in unsafe environment. Especially if these people are from Jewish communities, maybe you can trace then to shul and schools they and their families attend? You can then review wit these schools their safety protocols, starting with most likely problem – ventilation.whomever you are quoting on Bangladesh study raises a couple of interesting questions based on the fact taht a study like that is not blinded – people know that they are getting masks. But they skew the results somewhat – 7% number is for cloth masks, higher for surgical masks – and when compliance is only 40% indeed.
Biggest objection seems to be – the commenter can not envision what is a mechanism of different rate of decreasing symptoms between older and younger.
Effects on older people were indeed more significant. Was it partially due to increased distancing (as reported)? possibly. I don’t see anything bad in that. The whole goal of the study was to find public policies that work. Remember early incorrect predictions by virologists playing public policy experts saying that masks will cause decrease in SD? That seems to be wrong.
But a simple explanation that removes the objection is that effect of the doze does not have to be proportional. An older person might get such more significantly with more exposure and masking mitigates those cases.
Another note: mask compliance in “blue America” is well south of 100%.
Again, the objections raise a couple of interesting points. I would try blinding it, for example, by providing defective surgical masks as controls. But a claim that “fancier” masks lead to consistently different rate of reporting is grasping for straws. To the strength of the study, there are multiple other intervention that they tried that did not show any effect. So, there is no easy bias introduced into this data.
Silent movies? Charlie Chaplin?
you don’t need a korbin, you can use software to auto-skip inappropriate scenesFar, I understand quoted sources that he did try to admonish people, just did it in a negative way. That clarifies the difference with Avraham. Idea: maybe Avraham provided his own food so that they could actually bench. If they eat their own food, it might have been gezelah and ineligible for brocha.