Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
DaasYochid: I think there are 2 separate issues that the chareidim are arguing about. First, there is the issue of taking people who are in yeshiva and forcing them to stop learning to join the army. Second, there is the issue of chareidim in general joining the army, because they say the army is not appropriate for frum Jews.
It would seem the first point is included in the second, except for the point about working. If a chareidi doesn’t want to serve because he’s learning, that’s fine. Such a person wouldn’t be working anyway, and shouldn’t be complaining about not being allowed to work. His entire p’tur is based on his not working! But when a chareidi isn’t learning, there is a problem. He may want to work, but can’t.
I think the answer is that the rules which supposedly make Nachal Chareidi appropriate for frum Jews must be enforced better! We’ve all seen the stories about how they tried to force the unit to do things which weren’t right. If they made Nachal Chareidi truly proper for frum Jews, there shouldn’t be a problem. Learning boys could sit in yeshiva with their p’tur, and non-learning boys could have a frum unit to serve in.
I don’t know if a senator or congressperson would be so willing to go along with letting chareidim into the US. They already know in advance that this is a group who won’t be looking for jobs (likely won’t be working at all), so they won’t be paying taxes, and will just want to get as many benefits as they can. Honestly, if I was a senator, there’s no way I’d want them. Remember, as a senator, your job is to look out for your constituency. Would you honestly want such a drain on the local budgets?
I used to say tisaleim because that was how I heard my father sing it. Then I heard my Rav say tisalum. I looked in a bentcher and saw that it said tisalum. Every siddur/bentcher I’ve checked since says tisalum. So now I say tisalum. I actually showed one of my brothers that, and he was surprised to see it.
I usually say meheirah also.
If you want to see an interesting nussach for Yedid nefesh, look in the Koren siddur. R’ Sacks saw an original manuscript from the author of Yedid Nefesh that had different words. He put those words into the siddur.
You wrote, “The girl was dressed normally but the mothers skirt barely covered her knees!”
That means the skirt did cover the knees, correct? So I don’t see what the issue is. Are you trying to put in new standards? Now covering the knees is not enough, it needs to go down to mid-calf?
Either that, or you need a lesson in English. Your use of “anotherwords” shows that you can use one anyway.
CR10: Again, Sephardic means your ancestors lived in Spain, not Persia! Just say “We’re all Jewish!” and that should be enough!
Sephardim are originally from Spain. After the Inquisition, many of them fled to the Middle East. That’s why there are so many Sephardim from those countries. There were also some who went to Central America and South America – they are referred to as Ladino.
Why do you say we were all Sephardim once? There were plenty of Jews whose ancestors never lived in Spain.
HaKatan: I care because you make a claim about Zionism which also applies to Chassidus, yet you seem to have no issue with that.
Maybe you should apply your reasoning about Chassidus to Zionism, as you seem to know nothing about it either.
HaKatan: You did not answer my question. Do you think Chassidus has a valid mesorah or not?
HaKatan: The conditions they set shouldn’t matter – they clearly felt it wasn’t a violation of the oaths.
With your definition of mesorah, you may be correct. There was no mesorah for Zionism. Don’t forget that there’s no mesorah for electricity. There’s also no mesorah for banning the internet – how dare people rally against it when there’s no mesorah to do so! There’s no mesorah regarding pretty much anything that didn’t exist at the time of Kabbalas HaTorah! New situations arise all the time, and Rabbonim come up with a derech based on halachah. They may not always agree, and that’s where machlokes comes in. Zionism is one such case. Claiming that views held before the founding of the state of Israel are all valid and unchanged after the founding is not proper. As circumstances change, the application of halachah can change, because the psak may no longer fit the circumstances! R’ Soloveitchik clearly had reason to hold what he did, and his shoulders were sufficiently wide to carry such responsibility.
Your insults against him are pure lashon harah. I honestly can’t believe the mods let them through.
One last question – I’m honestly curious to know, what is your opinion on chassidus? There was no mesorah for that either – the Besht went against the established practice of Judaism when he started it. That’s why many were against him. What do you think about it? Does Chassidus have a valid mesorah?
I will attempt to re-word my post so it gets allowed through.
HaKatan, you say Rabbeinu Tam did not abandon his mesorah from Rashi.
As is well known, there is a difference of opinion regarding tefillin between Rashi and Rabbeinu Tam. Rabbeinu Tam disagreed with the mesorah he had from his grandfather, and changed the order of the parshiyos in his tefillin.
Rashi also held that we should put our mezuzos on the doorpost in a vertical position. Rabbeinu Tam disagreed, and held it should be horizontal.
In both these cases, Rabbeinu Tam argued on the mesorah of his grandfather.
In the case of Israel and Zionism, there is more reason to allow arguments. R’ YB Soloveitchik’s father passed away before the state of Israel was founded. It’s very possible he would have changed his views after the founding. Additionally, while he may have said non-religious Zionism was wrong, he did maintain a warm relationship with religious Zionists (particularly the Mizrachi movement). It’s possible he was in favor of religious Zionism.
In any case, my Rav is a student of R’ Herschel Schachter shlita, who was a student of R’ YB Soloveitchik zt”l. R’ Soloveitchik was a member of the Moetzes of Agudas Yisroel, and was held in high regard by other Rabbonim. There is absolutely nothing wrong with following his halachic opinions.
Actually, HaKatan, there very much is a debate. We’re having a debate right now! As I wrote before, there are many Rabbonim who hold Zionism is fine. How can you say there’s no debate?
Again, Zionism may be shmad – according to some people. According to others, it’s not. Why can’t you comprehend that? Is it really so difficult?
HaKatan: The fact is that R’ Soloveitchik held it was ok. It doesn’t matter what his father held – he is still a legitimate shittah to follow! Rabbeinu Tam was Rashi’s grandson, and he often argues on Rashi. Your quote from the Gerrer Rebbe is nice – for Gerrer chassidim. Many others held R’ Kook to be a gadol. There are also many others (I’ve named some) who hold Zionism is perfectly fine. Again, why can’t you accept that people can follow a shittah other than yours?
If you’re going to argue your way, then you pasul chassidus as a whole.
hashtorani: There is a difference between following the shita of your Rav and claiming that other opinions have no standing, and that those who follow them are following avodah zarah. HaKatan does not need to always claim “The Zionists have no answers!”. We have many answers. The Rabbonim I listed above hold Zionism is perfectly fine. HaKatan attacks Rabbonim who hold like them. Just follow your Rav, and don’t attack others who hold differently.
Yes. Even though I don’t understand them, I do realize that there are legitimate Rabbonim behind them, and they are therefore legitimate.
HaKatan: As I asked you before, why can’t you accept that there are legitimate shitos which hold that Zionism is ok? Rabbonim such as R’ Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik zt”l, R’ Herschel Schachter shlita, R’ Aron Lichtenstein shlita, R’ Kook zt”l and many others held it’s fine. I’m not asking you to say you think Zionism is ok. Just realize that there are other shitos which are perfectly legitimate, from major Rabbonim, that say Zionism is perfectly fine.
HaKatan: I said I was done in this thread, and indeed, I won’t argue anymore. I just wanted to respond to your 3rd request for “forgiveness”.
The Rambam, describes the act of forgiveness as follows: “Once the attacker has asked forgiveness once, and then a second time, and we know that he has repented for his sin and he has abandoned the evil that he has done, then one must forgive him.”
In this thread, in the very post you asked for forgiveness, you claimed that I am oved avodah zarah. You clearly did not repent for your sin and you definitely did not abandon the evil you have done. Therefore, even after 3 requests, I still do not forgive you. First show true remorse for what you have done, accept that there are legitimate shitos which differ from yours, and then we can discuss forgiveness.
HaKatan: You call that an apology? That is a sorry excuse for one. No, I do not forgive you.
I’m finished with this thread. As I posted before, arguing with HaKatan is pointless. I’m not going to bother. I’ll leave this in God’s hands. I told HaKatan where he erred and he chose to ignore me. He has no excuses to give.
edited
DaasYochid: I guess you missed something.
Avram: I never said he wants someone to get hurt. But he does speak lashon hara and motzi shem ra about millions of Jews on a regular basis, and one day he will have to answer for that. He has spoken motzi shem ra about me many times, and until he apologizes and asks for forgiveness, I will not forgive him.
Everyone: Arguing with HaKatan over this is pointless. He has his misguided views and we won’t change them. After 120 when he’s punished for all the sinas chinam he’s caused, maybe he’ll finally see the error of his ways.
One note about the members of the IDF: R’ Shlomo Zalman zt”l used to go daven on Har Hertzel, because he said the graves of Israeli soldiers are kivrei tzaddikim.
A kesher needs to work both ways – if a teacher doesn’t want one, you can’t build one! When I was in yeshiva, our Rabbeim used to do things outside the classroom with us also. In the spring, when Shabbos started later, one Rebbe would sometimes play basketball with us for an hour. Another Rebbe would sometimes host something in his home, such as a Chanukah mesibah, a Friday night oneg, or something else.
When I was leaving the yeshiva, I asked my Rebbe if he minded me calling him to keep in touch. He was happy to say yes. Now, almost 13 years later, I still speak to him, and when I’m in the area, I stop by to visit.
mra: Not a lot. You can buy the labels at Staples for under $10, and print them yourself at home.
In shul, there are bar mitzvas every so often. I often see the father give the bar mitzvah boy a kiss after he finishes leining. When a little kid comes in towards the end of davening to be with a parent, the parent often gives the kid a kiss. Kissing a child in shul during davening is not allowed.
Mods, I found this in the Rules thread:
One user name per person. Period!
I demand that PBA be banned from the CR forever!
I agree with left to write. I think it’s essential to have a good relationship with everyone around us. Personally, within 3 houses in either direction around mine, there are families that are black, hispanic, Muslim (from India), Sikh, and white. Guess what? I have a decent relationship with all of them. I say good morning and good evening when I see them. One of them once even offered to shovel my sidewalk when it snowed on Friday night, knowing that I couldn’t do it until Shabbos ended!
That said, I don’t think R’ Weiss was correct in his celebration. I don’t have a problem with inviting some black members of the community in, and giving a speech about the contributions of Dr. King to society. But there is no reason to have a choir including women singing in front of everyone. There is no reason to have a gospel choir singing in a shul at all! There is a time and place for everything, and a shul is not the place for a gospel choir! I think he should have showed how Judaism can celebrate Dr. King, not that Jews can celebrate the same way baptists do.
edited
akuperma: Please don’t say his views are typical of Modern Orthodox. They are definitely not! Modern Orthodoxy would not say it’s ok to listen to a choir of women singing! They would not bring a church choir into a shul! His views are Open Orthodox, not Modern Orthodox! Please don’t lump us together with him!
I second Tiher R’ Yishmael from Kvartin.
I also like Sheyiboneh Beis Hamikdash from Koussevitsky.
My grandfather was a chazzan, and once recorded some of the parts of the Yomim Noraim davening. His Unesaneh Tokef was amazing! Never mind the tune, but the emotion he had was unreal!
I don’t know if it would be considered a “chazzanus” piece, but I’ve always like the Modzitz Mechalkel Chaim, sung by Ben Zion Shenker. I also like his Uvashofer Gadol.
A quick Google search showed that the Star-K and OU both had a notice from 2008 about a kosher product which was packaged with a promotional package of EmergenC. They said the EmergenC is not kosher.
Jewish music is music whose mother was Jewish.
I don’t know if he is pasul for eidus. For me, that’s not the issue. If the Israeli Rabbinate is willing to accept his word on conversions, it means there’s a lowering of their standards.
Here’s an example. I don’t use the Triangle K hechsher, because I disagree with some of their standards. So if a Rav from that hechsher tells me, “It’s kosher because it meets these standards!” I don’t think he’s wrong – I just have a different set of standards.
For a geirus to be done, there must be an acceptance of Torah and mitzvos. Even though there are differences of opinions about different derachim, such as chassidish, litvish, MO, etc. I’ve never heard someone say that the standard used by them is not acceptable for the acceptance in a conversion.
Now let’s get to Rabbi Weiss. His standards have been decried by many Rabbonim as being past the bounds of Orthodoxy. So when he says a conversion was done properly, it’s not a matter of not trusting him. It’s a matter of trusting him that the person accepted his standards, which others do not accept.
If he were to be a witness to an event, I wouldn’t have an issue with it. It’s not a trust issue. It’s just the standards he has are different than others.
yose, you’re correct, it isn’t easy. A kesher isn’t something that comes instantly. It can take years to form a real kesher.
Part of mourning is realizing what we’ve lost. We are supposed to mourn for a Rebbe muvhak just like for a relative – we tear keriyah for it! Just like you can’t replace a parent, you can’t replace a Rebbe.
I think gavra had some good advice. A talmid from the same rebbe as your rebbe would be a good idea, or a talmid muvhak of your rebbe.
Hatzlochah!
It says Asei L’cha Rav – so get yourself a new Rav!
I once heard that when the Chofetz Chaim was niftar, R’ Elchonan zt”l went to R’ Baruch Ber zt”l and said his Rebbe was niftar, so he wanted R’ Baruch Ber to be his new Rebbe!
Find yourself a new Rebbe to guide you. Obviously you should feel the loss of your previous Rebbe, but you should not go on without one.
Dash: I was told that to make a brachah, you need 5 lbs. of flour. However, if you’re using 3 cups of flour or more, you must be mafrish challah without a brachah (up until 5 lbs. obviously.)
I believe my wife takes it off after it rises the first time, before she makes the dough into the individual challos. She then forms the challos, and lets them rise a 2nd time.
The only time I make dough is when I make it in a bread machine. If I’m just making a dough, I am mafrish after it rises, as the rising is part of the cycle. If I’m baking it in the machine as well, I was told to cut off a piece of the finished bread as challah.
Sam2: Some of my favorite memories are from when I go to Lakewood and proudly wear my kippah srugah. I was learning once in a shul on a Yom Tov between Mincha and Maariv, and someone asked if he could take one of the seforim I was using. Not just for a second, he wanted to take it away. I told him I was using it. He strongly implied I didn’t know how to learn because I didn’t have a black hat. I told him that was stupidity, and offered to talk in learning with him. I then proceeded to teach him a real lesson. At the end, he apologized to me.
My company has an opening for a Junior Paralegal. They’re looking for someone with a paralegal certification, with 0-3 years experience.
Email Feif Un if you’re interested, he can pass it on to me.
OURTorah: Feif Un is not coming back. He even asked the mods to block his account so even if he was tempted, he wouldn’t be able to return (I’ll have to ask him if it was done yet).
As for your point, I think you’re completely off here. True, we need more love among Jews. That’s one of the few things we can actually learn from Avi Weiss – how to love every Jew! But here in the CR, there is too much hatred. Hanging out here obviously led Feif Un to lower his opinion of other Jews instead of raising it. He’s better off gone if that’s the case.
I, too, am guilty of this. When I read posts from chareidim bashing Modern Orthodoxy, it makes me think less of the chareidim. It’s something I need to work on.
For Feif Un, it’s even more difficult. He went through some very rough times with yeshivish people, which he’s written about here. He told me a while ago I can write about it, so don’t think I’m writing about someone else without their knowledge. When people here post disgusting things, it just brings it all back for him. He once told me that there are times he regrets becoming frum again, just because he hears from so many people how being Modern Orthodox is against halachah, how being a Zionist is apikorsis, etc. He said, “If I’m doing wrong anyway, if I’m an apikores anyway, why should I bother trying? Let me go eat bacon, not keep Shabbos, etc. Let me enjoy myself while being an apikores!”
It says that baalei teshuva get a special place where the biggest tzaddikim can’t get to. When someone demeans a baal teshuva and causes him to regret his path, I wonder what the punishment is? Is there a special place for that person as well, where the worst reshaim can’t get to? I don’t envy those people.
DaasYochid, I told him you said you like him, and he said if you want to keep in touch, you have his email address. He said anyone who knows his email address is welcome to email him. If he doesn’t like you or what you have to say, he’ll just add you to his junk list 🙂
slight edit
DaasYochid: I beg to differ. My first post was to say I thought the thread was a troll job (which I still think). HaKatan posted calling MO a “mistaken ideology” before any of the posters you mentioned joined the thread. I never said I thought the OP should stay MO. All I said was that not all MO schools were as the OP described. Personally, I think every Jew needs to find the derech that works for them (as long as it stays within halachah). That might be MO, it might be yeshivish, it might be chassidish. All I posted was that the MO school my kids go to has none of the issues described by the OP.
Charliehall posted that he should not feel a lack of respect for others who follow the MO derech, but that if he wants to switch to a derech that he feels brings him closer to Hashem, there’s nothing wrong with that!
Truthsharer only wrote that he should bear in mind the “grass is greener” issue – that he will likely see issues on the yeshivish side as well.
Nobody posted that the choice was wrong. There was simply advice given that he shouldn’t set himself up for disappointment.
As for the troll comment, I still think it was a trolling job.
Regarding your first post, I re-read it, and I apologize for the first part of my initial post. I thought I saw that MO don’t respect chareidi Rabbonim as a whole. My mistake. I’m sorry. I asked Feif Un about your point. He said that while he usually wouldn’t post attacks, he did it just to prove the point of the double standard here. When he (or others) complained about the attacks and insults allowed towards Modern Orthodoxy, the mods would justify why it was allowed. Yet when he started a thread using the exact same justification about a chareidi person, it was not allowed through. If there were no attacks on MO here, he would not have posted anything.
As for the RCA, if there is an issue with a release, then specify, “The people who write the statement.” When you say “The RCA”, that includes all its members, including gedolim such as R’ Schachter and R’ Willig.
Mods, Feif Un asked me to pass a message along to you. His last post was requesting that his name be blocked so he couldn’t return even if he was tempted to. Your response can be seen above. He asks again that you please block him, as he doesn’t want any temptation to return.
I may be beating a dead horse but I would like to say that I had struggled with that post of his. Had it been what he intended, it would have gone through. Unfortunately, he mixed the MO vs. chareidi/yeshivish with a whole separate issue, and I knew he would misunderstand the deletion. When we are angry, it is hard to be objective and I personally have tried to approve and delete fairly regardless of my own opinions. – 29
DaasYochid: As a MO person, I must disagree with some of your points.
Why do you think I don’t respect chareidi Rabbonim? While I may not follow what they say, it’s not due to a lack of respect. I have my own Rabbonim who I follow. Using a different Rav as your posek doesn’t indicate a lack of respect. Yet many chareidi people (including many posters here) show a constant lack of respect towards MO Rabbonim.
Feif Un never said the RCA is the same as the Moetzes. All he said is that insulting the RCA insults many huge Rabbonim, just as insulting the Moetzes would do. You say that the “big names” are not involved in making decisions, but I can tell you that they are consulted on many things. The big difference between the RCA and Moetzes is that the RCA takes a bigger role in daily life than the Moetzes does. The fact remains that the RCA has many members who are huge Rabbonim, bigger than anyone here, and nobody here has the right to insult them.
As for the thread with the teen, look again. Only one poster said the MO life was right for him, and that poster isn’t even MO. It was rebdoniel, who is open orthodox, and a big supporter of Avi Weiss. Please don’t insult MO by including YCT style people among us.
MO posters (like myself) only got insulted when HaKatan took the thread as an opportunity to proclaim that MO is a mistaken hashkafah which goes against Judaism. Look through the thread again.
Agreed
It depends on the borogoves. Were they mimsy? If they were, then the mome raths might be able to help you with them. Just remember to watch out for the Jubjub Bird!
DaasYochid: So now you want to argue that they SHOULD have specified that they don’t accept him? Why? The Rabbanut isn’t accepting him anyway. There was no reason to, and as I said, the RCA said many times that they don’t accept him.
PBA: Not accepting his geirus is the point. That wasn’t the “other things” that were being dragged into it. Because of the Avi Weiss thing, they brought in the question of which groups in the US are “frum” enough for them to accept. The RCA said this shouldn’t be a part of the Avi Weiss thing, and it’s something that can be discussed separately.
I read the RCA’s statement. Maybe I’m missing something, but I didn’t see in the RCA’s statement that they side with Weiss. It said, “Recent assertions that the Rabbinical Council of America advised the Chief Rabbinate of Israel to reject the testimony of RCA member Rabbi Avi Weiss are categorically untrue.” That doesn’t mean they support Weiss, it means they didn’t tell the Rabbinate to reject him.
The RCA has made it clear time and time again that they oppose Weiss. They do not accept the “semichah” he offers as legitimate. They themselves do not accept his geirus. They have issued statements against many of his policies. In this case, they just wanted to set the record straight, that they did not tell the Rabbinate to reject him. That is very different from supporting him.
In the statement, they continued by saying that they think it’s wrong to make the geirus into much more than it should be, and that it shouldn’t be used to bring up issues about the definition of Orthodox in the US. I agree with this 100%. Deal with the issue at hand. Don’t drag other things into it.
I grew up in NY.
A blizzard is not defined by the amount of snow falling. It depends on the wind, visibility, and length of the storm. To be a blizzard, it must have sustained winds or frequent gusts over 35 mph, visibility of less than a quarter mile, and last for a “prolonged time”, usually defined as a minimum of 3 hours.
Here we go again… HaKatan hijacking yet another thread to rant about Zionism.
Mods, besides the hijacking, how can you allow him to blatantly attack a huge segment of frum Jews like that? Saying that Modern Orthodoxy goes against the Torah? Come on! Posts like that shouldn’t be allowed through!
This was supposed to be support for a young boy, not a place to air our dirty laundry – thread closed for now
How many 9th graders do you know of who learn Even HaEzer? Like I said, Joseph loves to quote R’ Elchonon when speaking about Zionism, so the user name is also suspicious. As for fathers not going to shul, how would a 9th grader know if the fathers go to shul or not?
This thread is a troll job, posted to try and get some bad things said about Modern Orthodox people.
Here’s what I know about the MO school my kids go to, as well as the MO community I live in. Most fathers go to shul every day. The daf yomi shiurim (there are 3 every day) are packed with parents from the school. Every night there is a shiur between mincha and maariv which is well attended. There are various shiurim offered daily, as well as chaburos.
Most of the mothers cover their hair and don’t wear pants. Are there some who do? Yes, but the school teaches that it is incorrect. There are weekly shiurim offered for women in hilchos kashrus, hilchos Shabbos, and other areas which affect women directly.
The school stresses that Torah and Judaism come before everything else.
Honestly, the OP sounds like Joseph. He always quotes R’ Elchonon HY”D, and these are some of the things he loves to accuse MO of. I think this thread is a trolling job.
If the person has semichah, then call him Rabbi. If not, then he’s called Mister. If you want to use Reb, that can be used as well.
Mazal tov! I’m so happy to hear your family is doing well!
May you see continued hatzlachah and brachah! Just remember, everything comes from Hashem. As long as you put your trust in Him, you’ll be fine!