gavra_at_work

It’s a premeditated campaign with a specific intention.

So was Rosa Parks, and Dr. King.

And?

BS”D

Zionism is not diiferent than any other “Ism” (Communism, Evolutionism, Capitalism, Charadism, MOism, etc.) that takes one away from the goal of Avodas Hashem and Kiddush Shem Shomayim. It is when the system becomes more important than the results.

The issue with the Medina is “Having a Medina at all costs”, which is Zionism. One has to remember that the goal is not the system.

That all being said, Avi K., M in Israel, & HaKatan are all correct. The Gedolim before the war were (mostly) against Zionism as the system took away from Avodas Hashem and made “The State of Israel” into the goal. That does not mean they were not “Loving EY” and settling the land, but they did not make it the end all.

That also has nothing to do with the current Satmer Shitta, that “the state” is Assur. One can be part of the state while not fully suscribing to “the system” (as most Israelis do at this time as well).

PBA: Does your Rosh Yeshiva have any ideas as per how to solve the numbers problem?

how much of this statement do you believe to be true?

Since it sounds like something that I would say, most of it 🙂

However, even those who would support are having issues. The multitude of support requirements also only come due to the imbalance that exists (supply & demand).

It is yet another reason why (IMHO, Lulei D’Mistafina) I believe some of the “Roshei Yeshiva” are happy with the causes of the crisis (even if they wish there was no crisis itself). They are therefore not willing to do what it takes to resolve the issues on a Macro level.

To those who claim it is not a Mitzva to vote (I will not have a discussion with certain members, it is bad for my health (no pun intended)), in EY, all the Gedolim who take money from the medina (which include Rav Shach ZTL, Rav SZA ZTL, Rav Elyashiv AMUSH, Rav Kanievsky AMUSH, Rav Yosef AMUSH, etc.) hold it is a mitzva to vote. Read the Pashkevels before the elections.

Plain and simply put, votes equal money for yeshivos and Aniyim in the Charadi community.

My old dorm counsler from high school said that he always wanted to open a seminary for american girls. Not to teach them but just as a money maker.

Think about it, you dont feed them but once a day, you dont really need to teach them much other than “marry a learning boy” or “make sure you are covered up to the point that sunlight cant touch your skin”

Just sit back and watch the money roll in.

You don’t even have to open. Just collect application fees and you will make a killing 🙂

bpt: Thank you.

cinderella: Yes, there are some that are OK (especially OUTSIDE of EY), but most exist (for the girls) either to place on the shidduch resume (went to Sem x for year in EY) or to “convince” the girls to marry a Kollel Boy (and excerbate many of Klal Yisroel’s problems). For the owners they exist as cash cows.

DY:

My understanding of the shidduch payment is that if the minhag would depend on age as well as location, the payment would vary as well. (No different than any other Sirsur).

midwesterner

Member

For the record, one of my roshei yeshiva was approached to sign as one of the original 70 and refused. He holds that girls should marry as close as possible to the spiritual high they are on when returning home from seminary in Israel. The longer they are back in America, the more their hashkafos get diluted. Remember they are not in Yeshiva like the bochurim. Most of them are out in the world, and being exposed to religiously compromising influences. So I can assure you, he does not hold of this one either.

Personally, I think Sems are not only Sam Hill’s minions, but the chief. Possibly even the being heesself. 🙂

Seriously, there are some good ones (BJJ comes to mind), but most are garbage, and exist to employ Yidden in Eretz Yisroel (which in of itself is not a bad thing).

Do you think roshei yeshiva don’t understand girls’ needs? Don’t they have their own daughters and granddaughters? To insinuate that our highest level of gedolim don’t understand the needs of (the female) half of Klal Yisroel, is what is found on other websites, and should not be said on YeshivaWorld.

Or they feel there are other conflicting priorities. Demolishing the age gap would ruin many Yeshivos (Beis Medrash pays in, Kollel pays out). Keeping Yeshivos open & strong is an extreme priority.

I was going to add something else but know it will be blocked. I’m sorry, but I can’t have a discussion with you regarding this when I can’t challenge your assumptions.

(I’ll try to be vague, feel free to delete from here out)

For example, my understanding is that at least one person on the Nasi list would have been in a position that is currently held by a Moetzes member if not for “the family” putting their own into the position. Others in the MOetzes have inherited their yeshivos, V’Hamavin Yovin. I’m not saying that they are not wonderful people & Tzaddikim, CV. I’m just saying that they don’t speak for many “Yeshivish” (Black hat, etc.) people. Their parents did, because they earned it.

Thanks. Am I allowed to say no. Sorry

OK. I’ll let that go, then 🙂

I thought Haagen Daaz was under Belz Hashgacha in EY, at least for some of them.

They learned how to make peanut

butter balls from Mrs. So & So, how to make vegetable

kishka, bobka, and pastry twists from Mrs.

So & So. They learned how to check vegetables

and how to make a fancy vegetable appetizer, from Mrs.

So & So. They made egg rolls with Mrs.

So & So.

The way to a man’s heart is through his stomach. (paraphrasing John Adams)

I commend you for keeping a grasp of this complex posting between us. It IS complex, and both of us are respecting the understanding we have from our respective rebbes.

Certainly. I was hoping for a source so that I could learn from it, but even if you don’t have one, you should certainly follow YOUR Rov.

Hatzlacha.

Hi gavra-at-work.

Hi BtGuy!

Again…(for the last time) what do you mean by “Exactly” lol

You are being anything BUT exact by saying, “follow the SA”. I think that is officially called an over generalization and is in no way a proof or defense.

Defense of what?

Since you failed to get anywhere near as detailed as the quotes and statements provided to you, I take it you are stuck and just holding to your opinion.

I don’t have an opinion that I am aware of stating. Please tell me what my opinion is so I can stick to it 🙂 My opinion is that of the Shulchan Aruch. YD Simin 249.16. Take a look there.

By the way, you do get Schar by giving to someone who ends up being a fraud. I know from whom I learned that from, and you probably heard of his name too.

Source? Not a quote, an inside source.

I appreciate your tenacity, but it does not contain any proof or quote from where get the idea that one does not get schar by giving without investigating, should the collector be a fraud.

Offen the Gemorah I quoted earlier in the thread. Read it.

You also failed to say where YOU “draw the line” when you “sense” someone may be a fraud. I am interested in how you can tell from ten collectors at your door, who may be a fraud, and then hold back from giving them a few bucks.

There is no reason why you can not give a quarter to someone who asks for it, Tzedaka or not.

My Rov specificly says there is no Chiyuv to give to anyone who comes to my door without a letter from the local Va’ad. In fact, he reccomends that I tell them as such, so that they can be investigated by those who know what they are doing. That for me is the line. Once again, there is no reason why a quarter can not be given in any case.

Again, throwing us to the “SA” is not a response.

I do agree with one thing, to ask our LOR.

Boruch Hashem 🙂 See the SA that I brought earlier (249.16), that is a response. Ask your LOR for practical application.

So please dont poskin, in the meantime, for anyone to hold back tzedaka from anyone asking unless they KNOW the person is a fraud, a per the SA. What you are telling us to consider and act upon, again, is not Jewish.

Chas V’shalom! Where do you think I said that someone should act not Jewish? 🙂 And where did I say “Don’t give”? See SA YD 251.1&2 for parameters, but that’s not my statement. I’m just the mailman.

In fact, the SA says not to give ONLY if you are CERTAIN someone is a fraud, and it even says do NOT investigate when someone is asking because they or someone they know is hungry.

The words “someone they know” is not in my version of SA. If you look at the Gemorah that the halacha is based on, the reason only applies if the asker is in front of you, due to Pikuach Nefesh. Ask your LOR for actual Halacha.

The tone of your posts implies to not give even outside those parameters, yet you have failed to give a basis for your view.

I hope you stand corrected.

Once again, I have said nothing (in earlier posts) about giving or not, except to say that some causes should not get (I believe you would agree regarding Jews for J?).

I await your sources (of which B’mechilas Kavodcha you have not brought a single one). I have no problem retracting if I turn out to be incorrect.

HaLeiVi:

Exactly the point. Once the question is “where do you draw the line”, and you admit there is a line to be drawn, everyone will draw it were they feel is best.

As I said, the SA has what to say regarding the matter as well.

BTGuy:

I was replying to a specific point regarding giving to frauds, or someone who turns out to be a fraud (even if that is unknown at the time) that it does not count. Please do not infer anything else regarding possible frauds (except that they do exist).

Smoking what?

Whatever A Sheep without a Spleen is smoking 🙂 Hallucinogenic, strong stuff.

“Only when we add this missing ingredient fostering consistency between messages being delivered at home and in school, will our girls imbibe clear lessons. And perhaps even the wives and mothers will retain their girsa diyankusa, the lessons they learned in their youth.

Problem being, is that when the teach actual Halacha in the schools (instead of what is the current trends), then the girls will have a clear message to follow. I have already had to teach (others) that certain things learned in school is not in any way shape or form Halachicly correct.

Same old Chava touching the Eitz HaDa’as problem.

The Gemara says that the fakes save us from the harsh Din of not giving. Because of the fakes, we can always say that we thought this particular collector was a fake.

If they do us such a service, don’t they deserve at least a quarter?

ROTFLOL!!!!!

What does phony mean? Why would someone collect if they don’t need money?

???? ??? ??? ????? (?????? ??) ????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? [?????] ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???

Bava Basra 9a. Ayin Shom.

If I’m not mistaken a Heter Meah Rabbonim is if the woman is UNABLE to accept a get due to a physical or mental incapacity.

Not really.

As far as your second point, HMR does not Mattir the wife.

So now the question:

Why do the secular hate the Charadim?

An Am Haaretz will always hate the Talmid Chacham (IIRC, brought in the Gemorah). But why? And how can the Charadim stop causing the secular to hate them?

However, if a man cares about halacha, he will not rely on a shady one, and getting a real one is about impossible

I was going to say some Avak Loshon Hara. I will not do so.