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According to the constitution, there is no need to have a legal and criminal definition of incitement for the president to be impeached. There is no leniency due to legal definitions of causation..
Furthermore, the text of the impeachment is clear on what ideas and words he used to incite people.
The text of the impeachment is:
“On January 6, 2021, pursuant to the 12th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the House of Representatives, and the Senate met at the United States Capitol for a Joint Session of Congress to count the votes of the Electoral College. In the months preceding the Joint Session, President Trump repeatedly issued false statements asserting that the Presidential election results were the product of widespread fraud and should not be accepted by the American people or certified by State or Federal officials. Shortly before the Joint Session commenced, President Trump, addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. There, he reiterated false claims that “we won this election, and we won it by a landslide.”
“He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged – and FORSEEABLY (my emphasis) resulted in – LAWLESS (my emphasis) action at the Capitol, such as: “if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country any more.” Thus INCITED (my emphasis) by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session’s solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive and seditious acts. ”
Shady Chareidi,
I will use one example to show where you are wrong. You can then multiply it.
There is a SOS in Georgia and a COO in his office. Brad Raffensperger and Gabriel Sterling. They are not the media and are not being stifled, censored or misconstrued.
The intimidation was coming from trump and not the other side.It is their job to run elections in Georgia.
The SOS was on the phone with trump and he told trump multiple times throughout the call “your data is wrong”. ( I would have told him to shut up and stop lying but he is more politically correct than me.)
They checked into everything that trump has claimed and they found ZERO fraud. They have answers to every question and scenario that trump relied upon. It has all been publicized by them and they stand behind everything they declared without a slight doubt in their minds.It is very easy to detect fraud in an election and to publicize it because there are people who run the elections.
THERE WAS ZERO FRAUD AND BIDEN WON THE ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE.
The real question is how would Trump supporters ever know when Trump is lying.
The answer is they never would and they don’t care. He lies and lies and lies and they believe every single word that he says. He lied at least 100 times in his speech on Jan 6th.They believe that he is the sole arbiter of truth and he is all knowing, all seeing and all truthful.
There are no facts . Nor is there any need for evidence. Nobody can tell him he is wrong.Everyone from election workers right up to the Attorney General of the US are part of the cabal and the steal because everyone who disagrees with him is automatically a liar and fraud.
That TVOP even entertains the idea that an election can be stolen and that the media would simply go along with it shows just how far trumps repeated lies have inserted themselves into the Republican party.
Would Chris Cuomo and Rachel Maddow show any of the damning information that supports a stolen election? THE ANSWER IS 100% YES, YES, YES.
common seychel.
I am speaking for the Torah.
If you would have been around by matan torah, there would be no need for the Lav of Lo Yilbash because to you it would never lead to toevah.common seychel,
I discussed the particulars of bathroom usage and I said that accommodations should be made to make everyone comfortable.
Why does it have to be an issue?TVAP.
Easier in discussing discrimination against a group. Just like we refer to discrimination of all minorities as one.
I stated my opinions so that you shouldn’t think that I believe it is normal. I want to be pragmatic about it.
I understand that we agree to disagree about the source of this lunacy and whether it existed 500 years ago. In my opinion , even if it wasn’t around 500 years ago, maybe for some unknown reason in the days of ikvise demshicha Hashem sent these kinds of people to the world.I agree it shouldn’t be forced on anybody.
The most famous trans person that I know is former Bruce Jenner who won an Olympic gold in the Decathlon. He was a public figure for a very long time before changing and appears quite normal.
The truth is 100% of the trans people you meet after they have changed , you will never ever know that they are trans.
What is flash point? Where do you watch it?
What evidence did they show?Lakewhut,
Trump declared the media the enemy of the people. Is he a communist?
Democrats are not against capitalism. They are pro capitalism with a social network.Mrs Syag,
Stop already. You do not run the CR . If you want a safe place, go to parler.
The election is over but the officer that died (and the 4 other people) are never coming back.
It is current events and is 100% a topic for the CR .
Much better than talking about the quality of goyishe writers and their books .
He was MURDERED. I hope they find the murderer and all of his accomplices.
Although there were free buses from Brooklyn, Williamsburg and Lakewood to the protests, Jews were warning people not to go due to the incendiary situation and that some of the protesters would be wearing AUSHWITZ CAMP t-shirts.
I hope Jews that stayed home take comfort in that they saved themselves from being part of such a protest.Sicknick was injured Wednesday when a mob of President Donald Trump’s supporters stormed the US Capitol. He died at approximately 9:30 p.m. ET Thursday “due to injuries sustained while on-duty,” Capitol Police officials said in a statement.
The death is being investigated by the DC Metropolitan Police Department’s homicide branch, the US Capitol Police and their federal partners.
“Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters. He returned to his division office and collapsed. He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries,” the statement read.TVOP,
The rights that every citizen has.
Let us start by making sure that they are not to be discriminated against. Some examples are in the workplace or in the military.
I lump t together because the lgbt movement does and it makes it easier.
I am not surprised based on your belief that somehow parents who vote for the democrat’s are more likely to have lgbt kids than parents who vote for the republicans, that you also believe that no semi-normal person in history, until recently ever grew up believing they were the opposite gender.
I beg to differ. They were all in the closet. Just ask Iran. Iran has declared that they have absolutely zero lgbt people among 81,000,000. (How fortunate the land of Iran is /sarcasm.)
The bathroom issue is a topic for lawmakers and lawyers to work out how to accommodate all people – including the religious. The sports issue is a topic for those who administer sports. They disallow taking performance enhancing (PE) drugs also because of the advantage it gives.I will repeat that I am disgusted like every frum Jews is with toevos and I agree that nobody should be taught that they can choose their gender.
I also believe that:
1) nobody should be taught that belief in Hashem is optional and
2) the toeva of evolution should not be taught.The following people resigned due to the violence yesterday.
Mick Mulvaney, Stephanie Grisham, Matthew Pottinger, Sarah Matthews, and Anna Cristina “Rickie” Niceta. Reportedly more are coming.
Vice President Mike Pence’s chief of staff, Marc Short, on Wednesday accused President Trump of revoking his White House access as tensions between Pence and Trump continued to worsen.It is strange that people who wanted Trump for 4 more years , can’t stand to even live with him for another 2 weeks.
TVOP,
“Republicans wouldnt encourage and normalize such behavior. ”
Sorry, kids do not become lgbt because they are encouraged .It is was too complex an issue.TVOP,
I was referring to the story that you brought of Biden talking to a parent of a lgbt kid.
As I have repeated in the CR many times, the social issue of lgbt is not exclusive to democratic parents. You can’t imagine republican parents having kids that are t? Why not ? I am sure that it is as common as democratic parents.
Your example is not a reason to not vote for democrats or biden.
lgbt people are alive in the US and need to be given the same rights that every other US Citizen has, no matter how detestable and disgusting they are to every frum yid.TVOP,
Only democrats have kids that are LGBT ? or have abortions ? What do you want the government to do?
So thank Bill Barr.
His parole expired. Trump didn’t do anything.
We are awaiting:
1) The Melania divorce.
2) The multiple criminal cases against him and his company from NY.
3) All the hidden corruption that the Biden administration will now have access to and reveal.
4) The total and complete dismantling of everything Trump has done in the past 4 years with the power of Executive Orders.
5) The 180/360 degree (hypocritical) turn around by his republican supporters when they start accusing Biden of everything they ignored with Trump. One big one is the deficit which blew up 9 Trillion dollars under Trump.
6) All the books written by former members of his administration revealing how unqualified he was to be the president.So much to look forward to.
When those who believe that Biden is senile and also believe that the Democrat’s are going to invoke the 25th amendment and put Harris as president, heal themselves from BDS, they can then start requesting the anti-trumpers to stop putting down what trump (maybe) did in the ME.
After Trump’s impeached presidency and his complete destruction of american presidential norms, Biden’s inauguration will be an event that will be celebrated the world over.
Only Trump and his band of thieves were discredited. 1 Win and Over 50 losses and counting – including the Supreme Court. Everything that they have accused the democrat’s of has been discredited.
There has not been a single piece of evidence of fraud in favor of Biden that has any credibility.
There never was a massive fraud and not even a tiny one.All American’s see that Trump lost in a landslide both in the popular and electoral college votes.
The democrats are only angry at Trump’s arrogant destruction of democracy in America.
To pull all the shtick that he has pulled since losing the election and still have the support of republican senators , representatives, and the party is tragic. It destroys the fabric of our country.
The ideas that were discussed and planned (and still might happen) – that Trump impose martial law or seize voting machines or use the congress to steal the election – shake the foundations of our democratic freedoms.This is all a contradiction to the mishna
רבי חנינא סגן הכהנים אומר, הוי מתפלל בשלומה של מלכות, שאלמלא מוראה, איש את רעהו חיים בלעו.At kiddush, after a few lchayims, we decided that it is necessary to be makir tov to his parents too for giving birth to him. We should therefore start naming Yiddishe kinder after DJT’s father’s two names.
Have fun with that one.
After a few more lchayims, it was suggested that his wife also deserves credit since behind every great man is a great woman. We couldn’t decide which one deserves more credit so the Beis Din at Kiddush paskened that we should start naming Yiddishe maidelech after all 3 of his wives.
akuperma,
Only three U.S. presidents have been formally impeached by Congress—Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. So far, no U.S. president has ever been removed from office through impeachment.
Nothing to be so proud of regarding Trump.The racist charge was not based on quotes taken out of context.
“Are you suggesting that the American president controls life and death, health and disease?”
No. I am demanding that the President care for the health of all US Citizens during a pandemic and advise on the proper precautions that need to be taken and allocate resources appropriately.
Messaging about the new virus is of major importance and not minimizing it.He didn’t keep his promises regarding the reducing the deficit, mexican wall and healthcare.
Those were major promises.
He also didn’t show his taxes as promised.What you call “thoughtless tweeting” is THE MAJOR FACTOR IN TRUMPISM.
Trumpism:
1) Unapologetically racist Unapologetically profits from his office. Unapologetically nepotism. Unapologetically attacks Americans Heroes. Unapologetically fires everyone who disagrees with him.
Unapologetically declares himself the winner of an election he lost. Unapologetically lets over 300,000 Americans die on his watch. Unapologetically lets Russia hack into all of our major government agencies.2) Does not accomplish anything that he promised on the campaign trail
3) Continues the DC swamp running as usual. Even adds a few characters that would never normally had a chance.
4) Fights against the truth that is exposed of his corruption by continually attacking the media and promoting his own media that repeats his lies.
5) Gets impeached. Loses the popular vote twice. Doesn’t concede after losing.
You heard it hear first – “The democratic party will never use the 25 amendment to push out Biden.”
This “plan” is as silly as it sounds.
Do you think that the over 80,000,000 people that just voted for Biden for president will just sit back and watch as he is pushed out?? It is laughably ridiculous.
I am sure this is being promulgated by very insincere crazy right wing media people who are still hoping that the SCOTUS or the House/Senate will hand the presidency to Trump.
They are divorced from reality.DaMoshe,
The issues you raise have been discussed in the CR ad nauseum. You can search the many threads and posts .
The best explanation that I have read for Always Trumpers still having constitutional and legal hope that Trump will win is that the media that serves them has made a policy decision based on financial gain.
Any reasonable person knows that it is over for Trump and has been over since November.
These websites/Cable channels know what their customers want to hear and therefore they stick with it as long as possible so that they can make money.
(The fox news idiotic hosts and conservative radio commentators consider themselves entertainment and therefore couldn’t care less about truth or news.)
This is the flip side of the accusations that the MSM media is biased.
ujm,
Just remember, the phrase “Person, woman, man, camera, TV” and Trump are forever connected.
Kollelman ,
Biden has MAGA Made America Great Already.
Health,
Come on. It could be Soros? Maybe it is Putin? Or Saddam Hussein? Or OBL?
Is this multiple choice?There is no evidence of a concerted fraud.
It doesn’t exist . Because it never happened.It’s a complete bubbe maase.
It is perfect that in this thread there has not been a single fact of fraud.
It’s almost like it’s a mirage setup by a conman and his band of thieves.Top,
First, he is not an expert on election fraud. Or cyber security.
Read his bio. He is an actuary.
Second, he is wrong totally and completely. He is another blithering idiot. The simple facts are Biden got more votes.
Third, It was not written for lay people and cannot be easily understood. The headline was the main point of his rubbish.
Fourth, I wonder how much he was paid to produce this rubbish
Trump is taking in millions after losing!!!
Fifth, states are welcome to check and test the systems. But that does not mean that Trump won.
Sixth, all Republicans that signed on the SCOTUS suit should resign since they sincerely believe that they were not legally elected.The whole republican party will be remembered for treasonous behavior in 2020.
Rush is now openly calling for civil war.
Trump lost and Biden won.
No need for hypotheticals.
The truth is the Democrat’s knew this was going to be his behavior.
The only thing surprisingly us the behavior of the rest of the republican party.
I find this to be false and ILLOGICAL.
Just imagine Trump had won like he did in 2016, would Trump and Guliani be doing this ?
The truth is that Republicans exclusively steal elections through many forms of voter suppression.
Now they want to tell 80 million Americans that because they are sore losers,you need to redo the election.
If you believe Democrat’s cheat, don’t vote again ever. Do us all a favor.I know this won’t change anything, but we really should listen to what Georgia themselves responded to this pipe burst claim.
Trump:”The election apparatus in Georgia is run by Democrats.”This claim is FALSE. It’s run by the Georgia Secretary of State, who is a Republican.
The Georgia Secretary of State’s website says, “The Elections Division of the Secretary of State’s Office organizes and oversees all election activity, including voter registration, municipal, state, county, and federal elections.”
The Georgia Secretary of State is Brad Raffensperger, who has been a Republican dating back at least to his time in the Georgia House of Representatives from 2015 to the start of 2019. In fact, Trump endorsed him on Twitter in November 2018 and Raffensperger assumed the position in January 2019.
Sources: Georgia SoS website, Georgia HoR website
Trump: “In Georgia there was a pipe burst – in a faraway location that was unrelated to the location of what was happening and they stopped counting for four hours.”
This claim is FALSE.
The pipe that burst in Georgia created a water leak that affected the room where absentee ballots were being tabulated. No ballots or equipment were damaged and repairs were completed in two hours.
Here’s a statement from Jessica Corbitt-Dominguez, director of external affairs for the Fulton County Government.
“At approximately 6:07 a.m. on November 3, the staff at State Farm Arena notified Fulton County Registration & Elections of a water leak affecting the room where absentee ballots were being tabulated. The State Farm Arena team acted swiftly to remediate the issue. Within 2 hours, repairs were complete. No ballots were damaged, nor was any equipment affected. There was a brief delay in tabulating absentee ballots while the repairs were being conducted.”
If Rabbi Margareten hadn’t walked in to them, none of them would have run after him.
@commonseychel,
The letter has a sponsor. (In fact every letter that gets Gedolim’s signatures has a sponsor.) The sponsor is the driving force behind the actual letter and is responsible for getting the signatures.
Rabbi Moshe Margareten shlit”a was the driving force behind the letter.
He loves doing good things for klal yisrael and he felt that the letter was a good thing and succeeded. He deserves tremendous credit for it.But I am not sure that this defines a shita of the Gedolim.
@commonseychel,
You are saying that it is a torah hashkafa to not thank a president or person that helped you and deserve thanks because they are not “good” ?
And Trump is the only president to be “good”?
And thanks can only come in a public letter signed by gedolim ?@commonsaychel, That is exactly what I meant. I am not sure how it was misinterpreted.
I meant that it is not a torahdige hashkafa to say that ,” thank you letters to presidents from the gedolei hador are RESERVED FOR GOOD PRESIDENTS.”