??coffee addict

Aaq,

1) there is a Halacha called Maaris Ayin (not excluding the other problem of bugs in the lettuce)and eating in a treif restaurant falls into that category and just because it�s a close friend doesnt make it permissible

2) Im trying to explain R Avigdor Miller�s position not try to argue with you

We agree there is precedent to taking on chumras
We agree that taking on chumras can be a good thing
We agree that Rabbi Miller favored chumras over kulas

To note, parshas yisro�s Toras Avigdor junior was specifically not trying to find kulas

Just to reiterate, im just trying to explain his shita and your entitled to disagree with it

Qwerty,

Im glad we had this discussion it made me think and try to understand both sides to the issue, I agree Rabbi Miller shouldn�t have been said like that, and I find him to be overly blunt sometimes especially on �off the cuff� remarks

�You are fixated on Chumrahs. I didn�t say that MO�s are better Jews than Charedim. I simply challenged the opinion of Rabbi Miller, and those who agree with him, that MOs are on a lower stratus, because that�s nonsense. I don�t know why you think that adopting Chumrahs elevates a Jew�

�Again, I�m waiting for you to give your definition of MO.�

Good voch, I wanted to wait until after Shabbos to answer you so I can formulate it correctly

The difference is chareidim conform their life to the Torah (Torah being the ????) whereas MO conform the Torah to your life (your life being the ????)

Since you like examples I�ll give you a few

1) you only want to say it�s ???? if it�s in a ???

2) i daven in a Young Israel near my work and a father and his teenage son came over to the Rabbi of the shul because the father wants his son to eat with everyone at a sheva brachos at a treif restaurant and the son didnt feel comfortable doing, so the rabbi was finding things that the son can eat. �I don�t see anything wrong with eating the lettuce�� he said (btw there are bugs in lettuce mind you)

3) I know a mashgiach that his work wants things done and tells him to ask his vaad how it can be done

I was thinking what can this be compared to and I thought of a husband that does things not because he�s told but because he wants to make his wife happy, so he�ll wash the dishes without being asked.

This is what Rabbi Miller is saying, MO serve Hashem on a level of an ??? which is an ok level, whereas chareidim take on chumras which show our love for Him, which is a whole different level, and Rabbi Miller is known for loving Hashem �look at the apple how Hashem makes it delicious for you� is his known line

Just an aside, I also agree with you that the lady shouldn�t have said that, one shouldn�t go around advertising their chumras

My intention isnt to insult you or any MOer, im trying to explain what Rabbi Miller�s logic is IMO

Neither you nor Aaq has offered an example of what MO are known to be more machmir in over the standard �yeshivish� person

Kashrus? Tefillah? Shabbos? Tznius?

Aaq�s examples are �???? ???????� and supporting oneself but these aren�t specific to Jews

And I would surmise that MO of today are totally different than they were 30 years ago both positively and negatively

I want to post a retraction

I found people that I think you are referring to, I think they are few and far between though and think they�re more OOT than in the city

�coffee, refuah shleimah. I hope you appreciate your Jewish doctor who is more likely to be MO than a BMG grad.�

No, it�s a dental problem and my insurance doesn�t have that many Jewish dentists and I won�t get into what happened it�s a long story and there are Jews involved but thanks for the well wishes

�These are KMOs. TMOs learn either at their shul or at a local kollel after a long professional day. They choose which classes to attend without a need to show kavod to a high-position rav�

I don�t understand the abbreviations but what I think you are referring to a TMO is what yeshivish people call a �Baal Habus� they work because they�re not cut out for learning or they married a high maintenance girl

Believe me when R Avigdor Miller is talking about MO he�s talking about KMOs which qwerty was all upset about and I asked what are they �machmir� on

�Basically he repeated what Rabbi Miller said which is that Modern Orthodox Jews are second class citizens.�

I don�t see that from

�Absolutely, the Modern Orthodox are our brothers. Absolutely! If a Jew is a ???? ?????, he tries to keep the mitzvos, then even thought he doesn�t exactly do everything the way we do it, he�s still a brother.�

But hey you want to see it go ahead

Btw he �blasts� people sitting in kollel too (in this weeks Toras Avigdor) does that make them �second class citizens�? The answer is no

I think Aaq totally �checkmated� qwerty

Im sorry I didn�t realize my innocent question would turn into an argument about some guy being either litvish or chassidish, none of which has any bearing to empire being kosher

I do know that some people are makpid on chassidish shechita just like Lubavitch wants Lubavitch shcheita just like some people don�t care as long as a frum yid is the Shochet

Somejew,

Sorry I wasn�t clear, I meant how do you know what chicken any company uses