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So Ann Coulter’s bright, has her facts right, and is (thanks, Ann!) generally on our side. Does that make her any more pleasant to listen to? And WADR, anyone who’s writing is compared to HL Mencken is not going to be high on my reading list.
GMAB, so would you say that we shouldn’t eat them either? Imagine a kapparos center that was impeccably run, no trace of chillul Hashem, etc. Is that any worse than a well-run shloct hois?
Before this turns into an anti-kollel screed, I think that all of us know someone in kollel who we feel belongs there, or who needs help. How about adopting an individual? (And check out your relatives first, you never know who needs help.)
Can I assume you’re in the tri-state area? If so, Hamodia will be having a special insert for just that.
And something to bear in mind – is money an object? The activities – movies for the ladies, events, fundraisers, etc. – are all pricey, so you may have to triage.
And remind your kids that you are not their entertainment directors. You can offer, say one big event, a simchas beis hashoeiva, an inexpensive trip such as park, or some museums (don’t know what kind of parks are in your area without major gas and toll investments). Then if they’re bored they can always amuse themselves by peeling potatoes, sorting laundry and putting away that which didn’t get put away, etc.
Apropos to the title of this thread, though maybe not where it’s going, yesterday I saw a car with a PETA bumber sticker, and a bumper sticker that said, Get hooked on fish, not drugs. Couldn’t reconcile the two till I got close up and saw the small print: Under PETA it said, People Eating Tasty Animals.
Re Squeak: if you were trying to be tongue in cheek I for one think you succeeded. Thanks for the laugh.
I know exactly what you mean! I always joke that my first year back in shul for more than shofar and yizkor will have to be at a beginners’ minyan. But that’s not much of a joke. The ambience and baal tefillah are something to bear in mind. But assuming you don’t have a choice where to daven, bring a really good machzor, with translation and commentary, like Artscroll, for when your mind starts to wander.
(BTW, made the apple cran crunch. The whole thing looks great but I especially like the crust.)
Re Doc: on 60 Minutes this week (our local CBS radio affiliate carries it) Obama said, one his great strengths is his ability to get 2 seriously opposing, can’t stand each other’s guts, sides in a room and have them work things out. Disappointingly, the 60 Minutes guy didn’t ask the obvious question: examples please? Maybe Obama was referring to the heads of warring gangs or something like that.
IIRC, Rabbi Munk in The World of Prayer talks about kapparos. What I liked was his explanation of the source of using money, not at all as a bedieved for the squeamish. OTOH, there is something powerful about using a live animal. (Never heard of fish, don’t believe he mentions it but could well be wrong.)
Don’t add the salt too early.
Not sure how we got from the original topic to the last few posts, but as we did, has anyone here read R’ Yonasan Rosenblum’s article, Chemotherapy as a Metaphor?
Mustard and soy sauce sound good? I’ll look up the recipe if it does bl”n tomorrow.
Takanos aren’t a 20/21st century invention in the Jewish experience, you know. We’ve had them before.
About women’s clothes: I heard somewhere that the 80s are coming back so maybe we an revive those jewel-toned clothes in the back of the closet.
And it’s filtering down to kids. My preteen, early teen girls aren’t kids sizes anymore, we don’t buy expensive suits, can’t afford to patronize the haimishe stores so they wear a lot of separates. And I find myself buying a lot of black tops and skirts – if they’re tzniusdik and the price is right they’re bound to go with something. It bothers me though when I see them making outfits totally out of black instead of using the pretty floral skirts they have. (I’m talking about Shabbos, weekday is uniforms or denim and a T shirt.)
Bulging eyes could = thyroid issues. People with active hyperthyroidism should keep caffeine to a minimum.
re squeak: “Devarim hayotzim min halev nichnasim el halev.”
3 is probably ok. I wouldn’t drink that much DAVKA to get the medical benefits. (Re Alzheimers: you can do a crossword or sudoku a few times a week also.) I don’t think that it’ll inevitably lead to more. If you’re getting nervous about addiction, try to make some fifty/fifty, regular – decaf.
If you have sugar with your coffee you may find you crash at different times during the day and need more coffee, leading to a vicious cycle. Try drinking it without sugar, or as much sugar. I’m leery of artificial sweeteners, though I just read that saccharin was taken off the carginogenic list a few years ago. Seems to be the least of the evils and may prevent your crashing.
Teenager, my take on frum kids involvement in these organizations is that, except for the rare exceptions, either the kids don’t get involved till they are mentor-age, or they should be in the majority. My kids were involved in a wonderful chesed organization that included some less observant girls (strictly not coed BTW) and they gained a lot from working together for a common cause. But once the demographics shifted and the non O girls were in the majority, I wasn’t comfortable with my kids getting involved, definitely not while still in H.S.
Back in the 70s I did have a few friends from my BY class in NCSY but they were in the exception category due to circumstances that aren’t relevant here.
Oh, and it should be understood that going into it with a strong identity and convictions will help to not be influenced. Again, I don’t think that NCSY is in a position to absorb all the kids that could benefit from such an organization. Some, but not all. Which gets us back to square one – how to design and promote an NCSY for OTD kids.
Re jent: we frum Jews tend to focus inwardly, on the micro level if you will. (I remember a Jewish Observer from years ago called something like The Good Guy vs. the Tzaddik.) The secular world focuses on changing the world on a macro level, like saving the whales, rain forests, etc. Often worthy causes, but ignoring inner life at the expense of the outer life. A lot of religious institutions and leaders these days focus so much on social action that there doesn’t seem to be much difference between social action and religious life.
Not a phrase by phrase parsing of my earlier post, but just trying to explain my train of thought.
Re Challahback and feeling more respectable with high end clothes: from where do our gedolim and many people who are really doing things with their lives in $20 or less shirts find their self-respect? There must be more to self image than clothes…
Can you freeze this? I think I’ll make it for this Shabbos but may as well make two.
Have you checked out yahoogroups or other discussion boards? I’ve had to research/deal with a few medical conditions and found excellent groups. A bit hit and miss but you should be able to discern which will be helpful.
I think we get maybe 15 mpg in our 12 seater (10 years old). I wouldn’t recommend it unless you really need the space. Even though the Astro is about as much as a gas guzzler, so you may as well get the extra seats, if 8 belts are enough, I’d go with a smaller frame car for easier driving.
I was thinking about NCSY too. But. My frame of reference re NCSY is well over 20 years old. NCSY was geared to focused, secular or more assimilated kids, from public schools and yes, Jewish schools, maybe Solomon Schechter types. I don’t know what’s going on now but is NCSY interested in or geared to reaching out to the kids in question? I’m sure that individuals are welcome and maybe the word should get out, but I don’t know if it’s ready to broaden its focus.
1) I can’t be masig spending much more than 20 dollars on any shirt.
2) Where are they copying it from? Is it that they see the ties in the store? Did they see bachurim from an even more up to the minute yeshiva wearing them? Someone has to be first and it doesn’t necessarily mean anything. It could be that they saw the tie and liked it. Or a relative bought it for them….
3)How expensive are the sneakers? Maybe they were dirt cheap. If not, a lot depends on whether the boy’s feet stopped growing. I guess I would say the same thing I’d say to my daughter: I’m willing to spend up to $ XX and you can pay the difference. If the difference were exhorbitant, I’d try to get to the root of it all, and build up my son’s self-image that he wouldn’t feel the need to blow significant amounts of bar mitzvah money on such externals.
Shmuel Blitz has written wonderful story books for kids (Artscroll). They’re picture books and your daughter may be older but there should be sophisticated enough stories in one of them.
You say you’re working with elem. kids. Is this in a school framework? What resources does the school have? Would Torah UMesorah’s chinuch pavilion have something?
And do you have anyone with the school you can touch base with? I love miracle stories but davening inspiration has to go further from that. A year or two ago Rabbi Frand gave this shiur in a number of venues about davening, giving chizuk to go on when Hashem says no. Now young kids don’t need this kind of “tell it like it sandwich” but whoever is setting this curriculum should be able to give you more direction.
I get what the original poster’s saying. It’s a problem. It starts with parents paying for taking shirts to the cleaners once the boys hit ninth grade. B”H my boys don’t go for that.
The gemach Challahback mentioned reminded me of the old story of the suit that was shared among the bachurim of a European yeshiva for shidduchim purposes, and how one girl sewed the button back on that fell off when the last bachur came. (Anyone knows the story, please feel free to share and tell it better.) The times they have a changed.
Caramelize the onions? Maybe Todd Wilbur has the Mealmart liver recipe somewhere 😉
Tohighschoolguy, 7th and 8th grade is already too late. I was in the library and saw a preschool picture book about a froggy and his crush. Can’t remember the exact title but you get the point. Kids are being targeted at earlier and earlier ages. I just contrast Wendy Shalit’s two books – A Return to Modesty already raised the alarm, but you read it and think late teens and older; Girls Gone Mild is about tweens and even younger.
(And there was another book, I think by a Stephanie Levine, called something like Mystics, Mavericks and…something else with an M, about the empowerment of separation between the sexes, among other things.)
My point with bringing up these books is, that as Teenager mentioned, boys are touching, they are being conditioned to think that they can get away with a lot more, because the girls are letting them. You talk about getting to middle school kids. What kind of curriculum or what do you see is the most important message to keep them, let’s say, asexual as long as possible?
re Mariner and the left and religion: I don’t know how much the left separate religion and ethics. They tend to be drawn to religious institutions that are big on social action over personal introspection and responsibility on the micro level, so there may not be too much separation there either.
It’s not exactly like sems. Sem starts in September, and applications are taken the previous November/December, with decisions being made (if the girls get in) in February/March.
So I assume you have a boy about 20, 20+. Does he need supervision, all the meals taken care of, etc.? If so, does this yeshiva deliver? It’s interesting that Rabbi Green of Monsey, shlit”a, a few weeks ago in Hamodia said that boys don’t necessarily have to learn in E”Y. (And kal vachomer for this girls, but this isn’t going to become a sem bashing thread, right? Let’s stay on topic.) As it happens, though, many do, and if this is the zman his chevra is going (and I’m totally mispael that you can do this so last minute, but kol hakavod. I guess I’ll see when my boys get old enough.) and you see that he would end up there eventually, then maybe he should go now.
Do you have relatives in E”Y, or good friends, someone to be an informal big brother? Do you have some shaichus to the staff of the yeshiva? Because if not, do develop it and keep in touch on a regular basis. Yeah, he’s old enough to be on his own, and there may be a fair chance his next stop will be Lakewood so he’s almost old enough to get married, but we as parents still need to hover ever so gently.
Hatzlacha and kesiva v’chasima tova.
Mazel tov!
Gotta check up on supper but some starting questions: how old is he, what’s his chevra like,, are they moving on, what does his rebbe/rosh yeshiva/mashgiach think.
Or he may have left a message, not heard from anyone but it was raining that day so maybe the message got ruined, and he could have tried harder to track the owner down.
OK, that’s my contribution to “let’s be dan lecaf zechus.”
And P.S. Let’s say that you were right, and he was hit and run. Why be so cynical?
Re lesschumras: I think along different lines. Kula/chumra didn’t enter into it at all. 80 – 100 years ago, these picnics and outings and socializing resulted in wonderful shidduchim and choshuve doros. It was a matter of survival – you wanted to meet someone whom you knew was as committed as you. And the men were gentlemen, with very focused goals. The world now is different. It wouldn’t work, definitely not for teenagers. That’s all I meant.
Re Rabbi Yisroel:
How long ago did your rebbe say this? I know that at the turn of and into the 20th century there were organizations for young men and women who were committed to Shabbos to socialize, but that was such a different world then. Every 15 – 20 year cycle has its challenges and I wonder if this was said in a way that would definitely be applicable now.
And, what age was he referring to? Teens? 20ish? Mid 20’s? And did he mean people who were settled, whether in school, a job, etc., or disaffected? Just want some clarity here.
Re Teenager: as you can tell, we’re on your side, and appreciate the credibility you bring to the discussion. I’m not involved enough to say coed would be good, I really don’t know the scene but am not toally naive, yet my gut says that for teens, not a good idea. Whatever might develop along the lines of what you’re thinking, though, I think it would have to be under the radar. Yes, with rabbinic encouragement, but very quietly.
Is there anywhere you can get vocational testing done, through Jewish Family Services or a frum source?
Don’t exercise in the evening, limit caffeine after noon, and as far as doing anything involving a screen – TV (ch”v) or computer – don’t do it too close to bedtime either as it can be stimulating.
Shindy, these Shabbosos out are getting to be a big concern for me. My daughter will be happily invited by friends of hers who are in kollel in E”Y and trust me, they are NOT employed by any seminaries, in fact, are struggling to find any employment at all, and American support will only go so far. They can barely afford to feed themselves.
They start off with in Shabbosos but we really have to look into this and I do plan to talk to the menahel about Shabbos placements.
Re Feivel. You wrote, I never heard him make a distinction. I misread that and thought you were saying you weren’t clear if he ever made a distinction.
Rabbi Miller, zt”l was definitely a knai, and I wouldn’t try that myself without clearly being on his madrega. Yet I’m still sure that he made some distinctions between the tinokos shenishbu followers and the leaders.
May your daughter grow and be worth the investment. Been there done that 😉
re Mariner: Oprah didn’t have Hillary Clinton, either, so strongly is she pro-Obama. But she is under no obligation to give the candidates equal time. OTOH, if her viewers and advertisers don’t like it, they can let her know but she has enough money that I doubt it would really matter.
If you don’t live in NY and/or you have to send a child away from home, seminary is still going to cost more than 12th grade tuition. Not everyone will qualify for Pell or through the FAFSA.
re Feivel: If you really have respect for Rabbi Miller, zt”l, now that you opened this can of worms please get an exact quote!
Re Feivel and ignorance, rishus, etc:
Some years ago I read an article in I think Jewish Action about a BT who was a reform rabbi, who while he was in the “rabbinate” had never heard about carrying on Shabbos.
I think the term you might want is tinok shenishba.
Shindy, the problem is that you may feel this, but we can’t telegraph this as a global answer. We have to let the girls feel that an intown, or chutz l’aretz option that would be out of town or even out of the country (England e.g.) is just as genuine a sem. experience. If we can throw in a good Israel experience, say a summer, or visit during the year if a girl has a structure and family, etc. to share this with, harei zeh meshubach.
If it’s a growth issue, the girls will grow anywhere out of town (BTW when I say out of town here, I mean out of MY town). If it’s E”Y please let’s validate the experience of a good summer program, etc.
re anon for this: don’t give up – my inquiring mind wants to know the answer to the question you asked too.
To the original poster: I am happy for you, but in some out of town communities, we don’t have in town options, and the overwhelming number of girls go to E”Y. I can try to change things, but it may not happen soon enough for me.
I know, I know, there’s always just say no but #1, believe me, we say no to quite a lot as it is, and #2 you can only say no if you have a good option to say yes to.
The ad seemed tame. But those jokes the other day…last time I checked we were, regrettably still in galus and have to watch what we say.