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#1/OP:
Can you please explain in more details examples of “What works for Lakewood or Brooklyn isn’t necessarily helpful or realistic for other communities”?
In Lakewood/Brooklyn the men put on Tefilin six days a week. I assume that isn’t an example of what you’re referring to. So what is?
The Kievan Rus is Russia. After the Mongols invaded it, the capital changed from Kiev to Moscow once the Russians regained the land.
Why should Crimea go back to Ukraine? It’s been part of Russia since 2014. You want to take it away?
We shouldn’t bash the Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist communities?
Your grammar and sentence structure aren’t using proper English syntax. I responded to the exact points you wrote. Your regret about making illogical statements notwithstanding, after your logical flaws were pointed out.
There’s no pro-Russian folks here. The only pro-Russians were the American Left in the Democrat Party while Russia was Communist. Once communism went out the window in Russia, the Democrats lost their appetite to support Russia. The Far Left held out a little longer until Hillary Clinton supported the coup de’tat in 2014 against the democratically elected government of Ukraine, which triggered Russia. But acknowledging that Russia has some points about Ukraine being strongly pro-Nazi, doesn’t negate the fact that Putin is a madman, as I pointed out earlier above, and that Russia itself is a backwards country.
Also note that Crimea specifically was never Ukrainian until the Ukrainian Dictator of the Soviet Union unilaterally and unconstitutionally transferred it on paper away from Russia into Ukraine in 1954.
“Glad you admit Putin is a madman.”
Glad you don’t deny the Ukrainians are Neo-Nazis.
“But it wasn’t Ukraine that bombed the Shoah memorial in Babyn Yar.”
Who cares about a “memorial”; lives are much more important. And no one targeted the memorial specifically.
“Stop thinking that historical genocide”
Yeah, what’s “historical genocide” when we need our Volkswagen, BMWs and Mercedes from our great and lovely German friends.
” (which by the way, as per your logic, Ukrainians are Soviet citizens, hence Russian)”
That’s not logic; that’s illogical. That akin to saying “Texans are Americans, hence New Yorkers.” Ukrainians aren’t Russian any more than Lithuanians are, which was also part of the Soviet Union.
“Putin’s terrorism shall not go unpunished. May he meet his Maker soon.”
Hey, here’s something we agree on.
May he meet his maker soon together with his Ukrainians Nazi adversaries.
__________________
“Apparently, the world leaders are not listening to your advice,”
Apparently not. When have world leaders ever been wise?
“so the situation is escalating with the threat of Russia going nuclear.”
You are correct again.
Like father, like son.
He is Tommy’s boy.
Putin is a madman; the Ukrainians are Neo-Nazis. They are made for each other. Let them continue shooting each other up while the rest of the world stays away from those Slavs.
“the Nazi German occupying terrorists murdered over 33k Jews in Babyn Yar.”
… With the very eager help of the Nazi’s Ukrainian collaborators.
Ukraine is the land of Tach V’Tat. Ukraine TODAY still celebrates the Ukrainian leader who mass murdered the Yidden in Tach V’Tat.
MW: Shkoyach.
Trivia: When did England have three Queens simultaneously?
Interjection: If the US attacks Russia ‘s army even with conventional weapons, as the senile Biden is threatening to do if Russia tactically nukes ukrai6, that means a direct hot war between the US and Russia for the first time in history; something that never occurred even during the Cold War. In fact, it would be the first direct war between two nuclear armed states. And even though the US is much stronger than Russia conventionally, in a nuclear war both sides lose big time. And once Russia uses nukes in Ukraine, there’s no betting it won’t use them against the US if the Biden goes to war against Russia.
35+21=56.
Florida is your place.
Okay.
You’re welcome.
Avira, that’s exactly the point in my last comment.
“Just your friendly septennial reminder”
No offense, sir, and said with the greatest brotherly love, but I believe you have not issued this “septennial reminder” seven or fourteen years ago, even though you were active here in both those timeframes.
1. Must a Pruzbul be written (by those with outstanding loans)
a. Before the Shmitta year
b. During the Shmitta year or
c. Both years?2. Is there any reason for someone who has no outstanding loans to write a Pruzbul?
3. Must the Pruzbul be maintained after it is written or can it be immediately discarded and still be effective and valid thereafter? If it must be retained, for how long? (Some loans might have repayment dates 15 or more years later.)
4. Can a borrower demand to see the Pruzbul before he repays a loan? Even if the payment is six years after the last Shmitta (for a loan predating Shmitta)? If it isn’t produced can he legitimately refuse to pay?
5. If someone forgot to make a Pruzbul (or chose not to), can all those who borrowed from him legitimately refuse to repay?
6. Can a business entity (owned by multiple partners or even thousands of shareholders) make a Pruzbul? Must it?
7. Do debts owed from non-financial transactions, such as purchases, damages, services rendered, etc. require a Pruzbul to remain valid after Shmitta?
I believe the Kiruv professionals and Kiruv Yeshivas should put a greater emphasis on outreach towards Modern Orthodox Jews, who are much more likely these days to be receptive than completely secular Jews. The secular Jews from the 1960s and 1970s are much further away today from any semblance of Yiddishkeit than back then. It is far harder, and much less successful, to reach them nowadays than back then.
Even though many MOs will not be receptive, indeed perhaps a majority even would not, there’s still enough of a minority, whatever the numbers may be, to work with. Much like in previous decades perhaps only 1 in 8 or 1 in 10 secular Jews approached by people doing Kiruv were responsive, that 1 in whatever the percent is, is a jumping board towards making Jews more observant.
Teaneck is completely very Modern Orthodox. 5 Towns is also mostly Modern Orthodox but with a dabble and mix of a little bit of some Yeshivish and Neo-Chasidus.
J12: The link is technically broken with a space. To get it working you need to manually delete the space
Right now there’s a real risk of Russia going nuclear. If Russia does use tactical nuclear weapons against Ukraine, then a serious risk develops of a direct war between the United States and Russia. That war could be conventional or could go nuclear, between two nuclear armed states.
I don’t believe the average American has any idea how close to reality these dangerous scenarios potentially are right now.
Avira, is it more of thing in Eretz Yisroel than in America?
Also, have you seen many the other way, with Chasidish men marrying Litvish women?
MBS is the heir apparent Crown Prince. His father is the absolute monarch.
Jack, the likelihood of Russia not gaining territory after all is said and done, is rather small. Ukraine is highly unlikely to be able to win this war. The only question is what the extent of it will be.
Yida, I’ve been making the same suggestion for years, regarding Chasidish boys with Litvish girls. I’ve seen it happen, but not often — and usually the girl was more heimish than Litvish.
Have you seen the other way — Litvish boys with Chasidish girls?
Saudia Arabia is an absolutely monarchy today. So are Dubai, Oman, Brunei, Abu Dhabi and the Vatican.
The story is gone because the transvestite’s lawyer threatened the websites they’ll be sued if they didn’t delete the stories about him.
ENS: That’s complete sheker. There are many neighborhoods with larger food stamps acceptance than Boro Park and Williamsburg. Are all your previous comments also filled with false data? Additionally, Willy has a significant Hispanic population.
“Does anyone know if these selichos with musical accompaniment and singing are increasing every year?”
Until relatively a few years ago (maybe a decade/decade and half) the only places I heard of this were at the Carlebach houses; which attracted some electic crowds, including the long hair types, etc. Almost never heard of them in regular frum, Yeshivish, Heimish or Chasidish circles.
Again someone is taking a small upstate rural village and attempting to extrapolate that data to city dwellers almost a hundred miles away. Why? Because, hey, they both look like the same kind of Jews.
That’s like blaming blacks nationwide for the black incarceration rate in Washington, DC.
YU, is at most, a b’dieved for those that would have done even less without it.
Again, no one needs to be exactly like the Amish to benefit from the constitutional rights of freedom of religion pertaining to education enumerated in Yoder. If anyone wants to strip anyone else of their First Amendment rights, then any burden of proof lies upon such party. Taking a small rural town and attempting to apply it to others, only because they share the same religion, won’t fly in court. Aside from the fact that the difference in income between the compared parties is rather small in any event.
And, for the umpteenth time, the Chasidim are very self sufficient. Their incomes are above the national average and certainly above the average of other minority groups that go to public school. And their welfare acceptance rates are below other minority groups that go to public school.
ENS/AAQ: Good grief, people. Who said this cash income isn’t being reported to the IRS? All your above statistics in this thread is NOT IRS data! And you’re both assuming the worst in other Yidden; that they don’t report their cash income for tax purposes?! Of course they do.
“Esav soneh Yaakov is still the halocha”
Esav soneh Yaakov does not mean Yaakov should become a little more like Esav to make him less hateful.
ENS:
1. NY has no such legal ability.
2. Subpoena whom? The Yeshivos do not have income information of their graduated students.
Additionally, the Yoder case doesn’t have any criteria to claim that educational exception other than the expression of sincerely held religious beliefs.
3. Because if you want to argue the Yeshivos, AS IS today, are producing a worse outcome DUE TO their lack of a more serious secular studies curriculum, then the Yeshivos can use whichever demographic of their choice that does have a compliant secular program to compare themselves to.
4. The justices are simply describing the various attributes of the Amish community. The decision, though, is a binding precedent even for others who do not share every attribute of the Amish community.
5. Firstly, you’re again attempting to extrapolate data from NS to non-NS Jews. You cannot.
Secondly, NS is generally two parent families with one working parent and one stay at home parent. The secular world is generally both parents (or “partners”, at they’re often living together unmarried with children) are working; and sometimes even their 18+ year old children are in the workforce, for a third (or more) income. So with one working parent in NS, they can still be earning more INDIVIDUALLY, even though your statistics are combining all working adults in the family to produce a higher income per secular family.
Thirdly, your KJ data shows a very nice income compared to the Bronx, even if it is a bit below average. That makes my case much more than yours. Especially, combined with my previous point under “Secondly”.
Fourthly, we both know that there’s more cash income not reflected in the statistics. (Take the moral discussion to a new thread. But note that in court divorce proceedings, the court WILL count off-the-books income in determining asset separation, child support, alimony, etc, without engaging in a moral or criminal outlook.) Look at the quality of the homes, the material possessions, how they’re dressed and the relatively lavish and frequent simchos made even by the average citizen in those two upstate towns compared to the Bronx.
Yes, these Jews are definitely making more money than their Bronx public school graduating compatriots.
And the burden to prove otherwise is on the anti -Yeshiva forces if they think they can take away the Jews and the Yeshivos constitutional rights as outlined by SCOTUS in Yoder. The Yeshivos and the Jewish community do not have to prove they did lose those constitutional rights of freedom of religion as it pertains to education.
The יצר הרע for ע״ז used to be very powerful; after the change it is very weak (though not completely gone.)
The יצר הרע for רציחה was never as powerful.
In what way was the יצר הרע for זנות blinded?
FYI for AAQ: Manhattan was, not that long ago, the center of Jewish America.
Syag, NYC public schools have very close to the same arrangement for Spanish speaking students.
AAQ, mdd’s views on this matter is from being an excellent student of history, especially Russian history, as well as a very careful follower of current events.
smerel: Your defenses are desperate. You’re trying to defend the indefensible.
And Yom Kippur will be turned into a Kumzitz.
smerel: You ignored the point. No graduate school is obliged to have or fund or acknowledge or provide any accommodations to ANY club. It is only once they accept one club then they legally cannot discriminate against another. But if they don’t support even a single club then they don’t have to accept any toeiva club.
ubiq:
According to your verbatim quotation, you are asserting that the new regulations are basically saying that as long as the private school gives the Regents, even if 100% of the students fail the exam, the school has proven public school equivalency and they’re okay, correct? Because the regulation you quoted only says they have to give it.
“If you are right, hopefully these new regulations are accepted then”
This response of yours is saying you believe that the Yeshivas should be forced to teach sex education.
“you were wrong.
Thank you for correcting the record”I see again that your English reading comprehension is subpar. But that’s okay since you spent more time in Yeshiva on Limudei Kodesh and, as a result, less time on secular studies. Baruch Hashem for that, I’m happy your Yeshiva dedicated more time for Torah, at the expense of non-Torah studies. No one should hold your lack of proper English against you. If you noticed over the years, I’ll almost never reprimand anyone for poor English.
But, since you misunderstood, let me again clarify. There are two things here 1) The Law and 2) The Regulations. The law requiring public school equivalency has existed in New York for over a hundred years. Until last week, there were no regulations specifying how to enforce that law. Nevertheless, the law was still technically mandatory. And it could have been enforced even without regulations. But it was never really enforced. Last week the Board of Regents created regulations describing how to enforce this 100+ year old law. But the law never changed between last year, prior to these regulations, and next year after these regulations kick in. The regulations only regulate how to enforce the law. And the law itself (forget the regulations) does not say only some school subjects are part of the public school equivalency requirement. It clearly indicates substantially everything taught in public schools is included in the law requiring equivalency in private schools. It makes no distinction between science education and sex education. It simply says whatever is taught in the local public school system that the private school is located in.
Again, a law is mandatory and enforceable even if there are no regulations. And if regulations are created, the regulations never changes the underlying law. Only the legislature can make changes to the law.
“i’m not objecting to Satmar… I couldn’t care less.” (I fixed your typo.)
Are you saying that you don’t care if the government drops this whole issue and continues to let Yeshivas give 90 minutes of math and low-level English, and nothing else? If so, what points are you trying to make in your various comments on this issue?
ENS:
A. The State cannot legally deny an entitlement program (note the name) such as TANF or SNAP, for unrelated reasons. That would effectively deny food for the children. And the parents of the 100,000 “truants” don’t pay their monetary penalties, they’ll jail them en masse? Be real.
B. 1) KJ and NS are little rural towns with very limited populations. Data from those little towns can ONLY be applied to residents of those towns. You cannot extrapolate data from there and apply it to 200,000 other “Jews” in the State simply because, hey, those towns are supposedly the same kind of Jews. No court would accept such antisemitic tropes. That would be, lhavdil, like applying the criminal rate of African Americans in Washington, DC to blacks nationwide. Hey, they’re black and they’re black.
You have no data on welfare acceptance rates of Jews in New York statewide because such data does not exist. There’s no reason to believe it is any higher than African Americans who went to public school, and it most likely is much less.
2) a Are you implying that the African American community is a failed one? b. Why are AA more “economically disadvantaged” than us? Only an answer acceptable and provable in court is worth answering.
3) The Supreme Court’s decision in Yoder does not at all rest upon, or even mention, the welfare rate among the Amish. (And, again, there’s no data showing Orthodox Jews are taking welfare more than average, in any event.)
C. The fact of the matter is that Chareidim AND Chasidim make more per working person than the average American as a whole, forget about African Americans. The only reason even in KJ/NS the official data shows so-called “poverty”, is because they have LARGE FAMILY SIZES K”H, i.e. many children per family with two parent households. Since the poverty statistics are based on family size, a family in KJ or NS with two parents and eight children (i.e. a family size of 10 — many are k’h even larger) where the father, who is a Yeshiva graduate is earning $90,000 a year is counted as “impoverished”, whereas the single parent family with two kids and a dog (family size of three) elsewhere in the middle of New York State, where the parent, who graduated from the local public school, earns $55,000 a year, is considered middle class.
In other words, the Yeshiva graduates are earning more than the public school graduates, but the Yeshiva graduates are counted as poor due to large families, whereas the public school graduates earning less are counted as middle class. This renders use of these “statistics” effectively meaningless as a gauge whether Yeshiva graduates, with their much less time for secular studies, are earning any less than public school graduates.
In fact, EVEN IF there’s a higher welfare rate among some Jews, it is because they have larger families that make them eligible for welfare even though they earn more money than non-welfare gentile families. Nothing to do with a lack of a proper secular education.
In the real world we know the Yeshiva graduates, even the Chasidish ones, are on average earning much more than the average American. But in any event, there are no existing statistics to prove it either way in court. So the argument will fail.
Yeshiva University Freezes All Student Clubs to Avoid Recognizing LGBTQ+ Group
Well, well, well. Looks like YU found a little bit of a conscience after all this time. At least for now.
The better question is why didn’t YU shut down all their clubs at their graduate schools over the last 25 years, in order legally to shut down the toeiva clubs.
Gedolim BLAST Those Who Turn Selichos Into “Evening of Entertainment”
Looks like someone in the CR was four years ahead of the curve.
Perhaps it was he who brought this spreading tumor to the attention of Gedolei Yisroel.
They’re too embarrassed to admit it.
Prince Harry’s father is James Hewitt.
Again discussing the stem cells debate?