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I honestly don’t see the issue with it. It’s a silly goyishe custom and if someone wants to do it, gezunteh heit! I don’t see anyone complaining about crowds standing up for the Kallah (another goyish import).
plonis:
I know that a Chareidi family generally make enough from the wife’s job and the kollel stipend to live day to day, but what about big expenses like marrying off kids or buying a house? Even buying clothes becomes a huge expense after a while.
Also, while I cannot comment on your personal status as you obviously are in a position to know a whole lot more than me, but I have a few questions about how you are describing Chareidi life in Eretz Yisroel. When I was there for Yeshiva, the vast majority of Chareidi friends that I had lived off of the Yeshiva which lived off of American donations. Most of their mothers did not have full time jobs and those that did didn’t make nearly enough to support their children. Almost none of the fathers worked in any non-Yeshiva position. They lived “day to day” based on the fact that the government paid for a huge portion of the Yeshiva starting from Yeshiva Ketana, so children basically stopped relying on their parents from when they turned bar mitzvah until they needed to get married. Did I miss something? Because that’s how most people I knew lived.
Like this ?? . What seems to be the problem?
DaasYochid: You misunderstood what I said. I’m not advocating for the government to force people to leave Yeshivas. I’m simply saying that a reason why Yeshivas are so packed has more to do with welfare traps than limud lismah. It’s not the Zionist governments responsibility to fund Yeshivas and I have no issue with them cutting the funds and do not see it as “forcing” people to leave Yeshivas.
plonis3141: Do you have any children? Do you remember paying for the hospital bills or insurance costs when you gave birth? No. Because “the frei” payed for that. Does you husband get a kollel check? Where does your husbands kollel get the money from to perform maintenance? Do you have enough money set aside to pay for your childrens chasunas (I’YH)? Why are 99% of meshulachim that come to my house from Eretz Yisroel? Why are 70% of them collecting for their own families? Why do statistics show that some 90% of B’nei Brak lives below the poverty line?
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Chareidim don’t make nearly enough money to support themselves without government help, forget about there being enough to support community chessed and mosdos.
torah613613torah
What sort of class are you taking where ?? is written on the board more than once? Intro to Theoretical Infinite Sets?
DaasYochid
It’s just that it’s an issue that’s simply not up for debate. You can attempt to justify it, but the facts on the ground are that a huge percentage of Chareidi society exists due to the welfare trap. Why should a person subject themselves to long work hours, secular college courses and less learning for a meager income when they can easily sit in Kollel and have the government pay for everything.
It’s funny, you know? The Zionist government is the biggest supporter of limud haTorah in the world ever.
Lapid isn’t interested in accommodating the Chareidim, he’s interesting in eliminating the Chareidim. It doesn’t make his speech any less relevant or true. He understands that Chareidim aren’t going anywhere, so he compromises on his end and asks for them to meet him somewhere in the middle. The problem is that the Chareidim don’t seem to want to move from the far right. Even the “girls in the army” non-issue could have been up for debate, had they actually bothered debating it instead of throwing away the entire plan.
- Lying down on your bed and realizing that you forgot Ma’ariv
- Waking up on a Friday morning and realizing that you’re fleishig
- Trying to avoid weird looks from your co-workers when you wash netilas yodayim in the bathroom sink
- Shidduchim. nuff said
- Not being able to rub my eyes first thing in the morning
- Worrying about the ever increasing pile of random literature at my seat in shul, where it came from and why there’s no sheimos box
CR is a place to blow off a little bit of steam. If you think that Harry Potter doesn’t belong here, you’re taking it way too seriously.
@DaasYochid
Just because I agree with a single speech that Lapid gave does not mean that I agree with every thing he’s ever said, much of which I’m certain is pure k’fira.
R’ Aron Leib Shteinman famously said that Yeshiva Bachurim who are not learning properly should join the Nachal Chareidi, which is why you see disgusting and slanderous loshon hora graffiti about him all over Geula and Meah Shearim.
All I’m saying is that being a Chareidi and sitting in Yeshiva because (and don’t even try to argue this one) it’s easier than working in a secular environment do not necessarily go hand in hand. They have been artificially made that way and the system must change.
I spent 3 years in one of the top Israeli Chareidi Yeshivas in Eretz Yisroel so don’t try to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. Some ten percent of the bachurim barely showed up to sedorim on time, and many weren’t seen in the Bais Medrash for months. This was considered low for a Chareidi Yeshiva. Most of them would be modeh to me, the outsider, that the system is messed up and must be changed, it’s just that everyone was afraid to do anything for fear of some sort of mass secularization of Yeshivalite.
In what way is the judicial system corrupt and anti-semitic? I’ve read and know personally of numerous cases where Yidden (sometimes Frum) are put in prison and I know of few to none where the Yid in question was not guilty of some crime or other.
I think that people like to see our community with rose-tinted glasses and refuse to acknowledge that Yidden are capable of committing crimes.
What if you’ve been folding against the crease for so long, there are now two sets of creases?
Can I be Crabbe, since all the other main characters seem to be taken?
It can be both or neither. I know one thing for certain, asking random strangers on the Internet who have no clue about your personal situation will not give you the answer.
I simply don’t understand everyone problem with what Lapid is saying. It’s true, believe it or not, that to a certain extent the Israeli Chareidi mindset is a result of the Chasam Sofer. When the Endarkenment started, the Chasam Sofer and Rav Hirsch were the biggest fighters against it. They used vastly different approaches, though. The Chasam Sofer famously said “Chodosh Assur Min HaTorah” and assured any connection with the outside world. Rav Hirsch endorsed a way to connect the outside world to Torah. Elu V’Elu. The idea that a Yid cannot be a Yid if he has a job that involves contact with the secular world (lo aleinu!) is ridiculous and never existed in Frum society.
Israeli Chareidi society is a combination of an outgrowth of the Chasam Sofer-niks and the stark opposition to the Zionist state which sought to destroy Torah. Well now they are admitting defeat. Torah is l’neitzach netzachim and the secular Zionists are just beginning to understand that and changing their world accordingly.
Now we are in a very unique situation that we don’t need to cut everything off from the outside world nor fit new lenses to view it. We can literally mold the outside world ourselves. We can create Chareidi colleges, Chareidi banks and Chareidi law firms. Why isn’t this happening? Because many insist that to continue to be “Chareidi” one mustn’t leave the Yeshivas. Well we don’t have to leave Yeshivas, we can bring the Yeshivas with us! Frum society cannot support a community that lives off of a Kollel stipend and secular society is opposed to the idea.
The secular parties in Israel have offered numerous compromises, like the Tal Law, but none have been accepted by the Chareidim. It’s time that the Chareidim understand that you don’t have to compromise Torah in order to change the lifestyle that has been the norm for the past 60 years.
The concept of never leaving the Daled Koselos Bais Medrash has passed. It’s time that Chareidim start working and going to college. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The Whitehouse petitions are silly. The most they’ve ever done was to get a non-committal highly-sanitized political response from some unnamed Whitehouse officer.
And breaking away from the UN would possibly be the worst move ever. It will leave Israel completely vulnerable to Lebanese terrorists should the UN decide to pull out its peacekeeping forces.
Also, what you are proposing is the Libertarian approach. That the US should not get involved in foreign policy at all. This is a wonderful ideal if it weren’t for the fact that it also means cutting off aid to Israel and Egypt (whose American aid is one of the major factors in not attacking Israel).
Just for the record: There is no large group of Chareidim in Israel who <i>do not</i> take money from the government in some form or other. Healthcare, housing, schools, kollel, these are all funded by the Medina in some way or another. Which is why I find the position of those who claim not to take money very confusing.
That’s my great aunts family. I never questioned the fact that many of my second cousins kept three hours, because I always just assumed our entire family was Yekkish. I realized as I got older that there was an entire branch of our family that was Litvish, yet they all held three hours, even those with Litvish fathers. My father laughed and explained that his aunt was simply too hard-headed to be pushed into waiting more than three hours, and her daughters simply followed suit.
I’m afraid that I’m worried more about the inevitable condemnations against Israel when this is over than the rockets, which usually misfire and end up in a field.
Also, “Cloud Pillar” sounds weird, can’t we all just call it by it’s real name, “Amud Ha’Anan”?
I’ll try to explain without using buzzwords like “Cloud storage” and “virtual hosting”.
AWS is not one thing, it’s a series of services that Amazon offers at low-cost monthly rates. At its core, you’re basically renting server space from Amazon. The different services depend on what sort of server space you’re renting.
- Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3). The most basic service. It’s basically a hard drive where you can put whatever you want, such as photos or back ups of your documents. You can set passwords and permissions and accessibility so that people can download or upload to it but not delete.
- Database Hosting. Amazon will host and maintain a SQL accessible database for you. I believe the only access you have is via SQL queries, so you can’t just use it out of the box to upload your files.
- Elastic Computing Cloud (EC2). The most versatile of the services. It’s basically a remote computer that you can do whatever you want to with it, accessible via Windows Remote Desktop or telnet if it’s a GNU/Linux or UNIX computer. The main use for this is to host web sites and other applications that require people logging in to do stuff and administrators to manage the stuff.
- They have a few other services that are more esoteric and complex, like networking your EC2 computers and such. The prices vary greatly mainly depending on where you want the services to be physically located (US, Canada, Brazil, etc), how often they will be used and how much hard disk space you need.
I don’t know much about comparable services, I’ve heard that Dreamhost is pretty good, but I don’t think that they offer as wide of a range of services. Stay away from GoDaddy, they are overpriced and slow.
Pandering. Chareidim make up about %15 of the Knesset and with the way that Israeli politics works, every vote counts for a lot.
For all the evil that Iran commits against the State of Israel and the Jews, attacking them full on would be the worst possible solution. It would accomplish almost nothing, as it would be exceedingly difficult to destroy all the Iranian underground nuclear sites. And it would give the Iranians, Syrians, Egyptians and Lebanese the excuse of the millenium to attack Israel with everything they’ve got, and the Jordanians and Turkish will be forced to break off ties with Israel. Ein Somchin Al HaNes.
@Josh31: Kol Torah used to be a Poalei Agudas Yisrael (PAI) Yeshiva, where Zionism was discouraged, but army service was allowed. Most bachurim did not join. Chevron and Shalavim were similar. Now, Kol Torah is very much against bachurim joining up as the social dynamics in Israel are much more polarized between Chareidi and Mizrachi.
As far as I know, Ger does not assur army service and some Chassidim do join up. Vishnitz and Belz outright assur it and Satmar isn’t even a question.
Rav Gifter ztzl: “Of course I’m a Zionist! How can a Jew not be a Zionist? But those people calling themselves Zionists… someone should lock them up for a few years and maybe knock some sense into their heads!”
My definition of Zionism is that it is an important thing for the Jewish people to have a Jewish State. On that I disagree on every single aspect.
From a secular standpoint, a Jewish State is important as it unites Jews behind a single cause. As a Torah Jew, this is ridiculous as we already have the Torah to unite us.
From a religious standpoint, the concept of a Jewish State in Eretz Yisroel is not considered a good thing according to the Gemara. The whole “Ikviseh d’Meshichteh” is an invention by some useful idiots.
@takahmamash Correct. I just noticed that now, how I mis-spelled “Goldbergers” as “Goldbergs”.
Hashgachos: Virtually everything Yeshivish in Baltimore is connected to the Star-K and Ner Yisroel. Pretty much every kosher restaurant has a Star-K with the exception of Accents/Coacochinos (fleishig/milchig restaurants next to each other) which has an OU for cost purposes (they still retained the same mashgiach). There are also a few places that serve Cholov Stam under other hasgochos, such as the Maggie Moos Ice Cream by Quarry Lake and Dunkin Donuts by Fallstaff and Reisterstown.
Food:
- Dougies. Same as New York. Great steakhouse.
- Three pizza shops, Tov Pizza, Mama Leahs and Carmels. Mama Leahs is my personal favorite, but Tov is a little more open and nicer. Carmels makes good “extra” stuff along with their pizza.
- Knish Shop: A small deli that has the best sandwiches and subs since they get their meat from Wassermen and Lemburgers which is unquestionably the best butcher on the East Coast.
- Two Asian restaurants, David Chus and Umami. Umami is a litter fancier and more expensive, but they have better food.
- Three fleishig restaurants, Kosher Bite, Accents and Royal. They are all pretty comparable to each other, but Kosher Bite has the best service and selection.
- One bagel store, Goldbergs, which makes great food.
- Coacachinos is a small coffee and sandwich shop (Cholov Yisroel only upon request)
- Van Gogh Cafe. Not cholov yisroel coffee shop. Located downtown, outside of the frum community. They get their food from Goldbergs.
Minyanim (everything is Ashkenaz unless specified):
- Aguda of Park Heights (Rav Heineman): Call 410-764-3333 for minyan times. They have the most frequent minyanim. Bit of a mixed crowd, more older people. Park Heights and Pinkney
- Kehal Ahavas Yisroel Tzemach Tzedek AKA Feldmans (Rav Dovid Heber). Somewhat yeshivish crowd of various ages. Park Heights and Seven Mile Lane
- B’nei Jacob Shaarei Zion (Rav Moshe Hauer). More modern crowd. Many Ba’alei Teshuva prefer this minyan. Across from Feldmans
- Rabbi Aryehs Shul. Persian. Unless you’re also Persian, you’ll probably feel left out. Park Heights and Seven Mile Lane
- Bais Edmund Safra (Rav Goldfeiz). Sephardi, but mostly Persian crowd. Seven Mile, between Park Heights and Reisterstown
- Shomrei Emunah (Rav Marwick). Modern Orthodox, but has a sizeable Yeshivish crowd. Many minyanim through out the day. Greenspring rd
- Agudah of Greenspring. Yeshivish minyan, next to Shomrei
- Kehal Arugas HaBosem (Rav Taub and his brother, Rav Taub). Chassidish, but the crowd is mostly misnagdim that daven Nussach Sfard. Fallstaff and Park Heights
- Sternhills (Rav Kostelitz). Very similar to Taubs. Near the Agudah. Nussach Sfard.
- Goldbergs (nobody knows the real name of the shul). “Beginner” style minyan geared towards Ba’alei Teshuvas and others who didn’t have a good frum education. Sfard. Across from the Aguda
- Kol Torah/Rav Bergers. The unofficial Ner Yisroel shul. Slow davening. Located on Fallstaff between Willow Glen and Clarks. Slow davening, younger yeshiva crowd.
- Weis’s/Orach Chaim. Younger, mixed yeshivish/modern crowd mixed in with an older more modern crowd. Lots of weekday minyanim. Down the block from Bergers
- Darchei Tzedek (Rav Horowitz). Middle age crowd, not very yeshivish but not “modern”. Shelburne and Seven Mile.
- Ner Yisroel. They Yeshiva. It’s very out of the way, and not at all walking distance, but the davening is nice and yeshivish.
Attractions:
There are a lot of things to do around Baltimore, but for some you may have to drive a bit. First off is the Inner Harbor. Without traffic it’s a 15 minute drive from the frum community. The main attractions there are the aquarium (call ahead and buy tickets, it gets crowded and the limit the amount of people coming in) and the Science Center, but there are also boat rides, a childrens museum (Port Discovery) and it’s generally a nice place to walk around.
If you like outdoors, you can check out Gunpowder State Park, which is a great place for hiking. Piney Run park is a great place for picnics, and they also have rowboat/canoe/kayak rentals.
For the little kids, there’s a place called Annies Playground about an hour before you reach Baltimore coming from New York. It’s a huge outdoor playground.
The Baltimore Zoo is decent, but there are definitely better zoos out there.
Washington DC is only an hour drive away and there’s plenty more to do there, such as the zoo, the Washington Mall and the Smithsonian Museums. White House and Capital tours take all day, most of it spent waiting.
I’ll post more stuff when I think about it.
It’s the name of an old computer game from the 90s. I never actually played it, but the name kind of stuck in my head. At one point, about a decade and a half ago, I wanted to choose an email address that was unique enough so that spammers couldn’t find me just by trying all common names (which was how an old Hotmail account of mine got ruined). This was the first thing that came to mind and it has since been my goto user name, along with plain Yserbius, for any place I don’t want to put my real name.
Can I say that I was very disappointed regarding the Asifa? I was expecting a mixture of inspiring gedolim speeches about tahar hamachane along with ba’al habatim speeches giving advice on how to raise children to be wary of the internet, and what to do about the internet in your homes. Instead, it was speech after speech in Yiddish (which, I’m sorry to say, I’m not fluent in and the translations were of little help) with vague terminology and talks of gehennom and the tahar klal. Virtually zero practical information was given over, both in terms of chinuch and technological advice. I’m sorry, but as a guy who spends my days at work in front of a computer with Internet access (filtered, but imperfectly) not to mention Internet at home so that I can work from home when needed and my wife can do her schoolwork, I would have liked something more than just mussar. I heard that the “Kosher Technology Expo” was also cancelled at the last minute.
All in all, a major disappointment.
Maybe where you live. In most of the US, there are unfortunate Amei Ha’aratzim who consider themselves Orthodox that make up most of the Orthodox populations.
“There’s no such thing as escalator out of order, it’s just escalator is temporarily stairs”. -Mitch Hedberg.
I vote for Bill Cosby. Funny and clean.
As an aside, there is a single guy responsible for 90% of the pirated frum music found on the internet. He goes by the name of The_Pirate_Rebbe.
@gregaaron So what if it’s deviant behavior? It’s not exactly hurting anyone. As long as something doesn’t cause harm, I see no reason why it should be illegal. That’s the difference, as I see it, between various types of deviant behavior. If a certain behavior can cause harm to people or property, it should be illegal. If not, there is no reason why it shouldn’t be legal.
St. Moritz
@kfb And murder and theft are things that can cause harm to other people. Laws against them existed even before Sinai. The Romans and Greeks had strict laws against murder and theft, yet they were some of the most promiscuous civilizations in history. You can’t really compare the two.
@kfb It was never stated in the Constitution what “marriage” means. I think you are referring to the Defense of Marriage act, which lasted a few years but was repealed by Supreme Court ruling.
These people are only not considered married, because the Torah defines what marriage is for us. So let the government re-define marriage to be whatever they want it to be. Let people marry their cars if they want to. Why should I care?
@far east Agreed %100. The only arguments against gay “marriage” are from a Torahdik perspective. I see no reason why any Yid should care about what is assur, but legal for goyim to do. Should we lobby to ban ever min ha’chai next? What about stam znus? Or avodah zorah?
@shmoel The Briskers accept money from the State. There are thousands of Briskers in Eretz Yisroel, are you trying to tell me that every single one pays for their own health insurance? Or never took advantage of the law that pays for land to build a shul? Or ever got a kollel check?
shmoel: I’ve heard from very reliable sources that Rav Shteinman <i>did</i> say his famous “controversial” statement that bachurim who are having trouble should join Nachal Chareidi. His words were ambiguous, though, so the Rav I heard it from said that he was referring to bachurim who are eating treif and being mechalel Shabbos. Walk through the Geula/Meah Shearim areas and ask around about peoples opinions of him. Better yet, read the graffiti.
@derszoger Which Gedolim? The Gedolim have been divided on these issues since 1948. Rav Shteinman famously said that bachurim going off the derech should join the army.
I have several opinions on the topic. First off, people living in Eretz Yisroel have to live like Israelis. That means either being Da’ati Leumi and allowing your children to join the army, or being Chareidi and letting your children sit in kollel for their entire life.
Secondly, the situation as it is now, is terrible and in serious need of change. Joining the army (even Nachal Chareidi) is not an option for most Chareidim, and sitting in kollel forever is also not an option. Something has to change, and I believe that with the exploding Chareidi voting population, change will happen to allow for more and more options other than kollel or army.
There are two main tourist attractions in Prague, the Jewish Quarter and the Prague Castle. Both can be done in about half a day or so. Unfortunately, there isn’t much left of the Jewish Quarter, so you can visit every old shul, cemetery and Yeshiva in a guided tour that lasts about 4 hours.
As for the “Seudas Hoda’ah” I’ve heard various versions of that since 2000, so I doubt that it happened at all, and certainly not in 2009 as Sam2 postulates.
That’s funny, I was just talking to my shvugger the other day about R’ Scheinberg who he was close with when he was in Torah Ohr. I asked him about the validity of this story. He told me that once the Rosh HaYeshiva was speaking with a group of “modern” American boys and he mentioned that when he is in New York and sees the papers announcing that the Yankees won, he still would get a little excited.
My favorite is a song that goes “Mi-she mi-she mi-she nichnas Adar” to the tune of an obscure bluegrass melody, “Pick a Bale of Cotton” from the 1950s.
Don’t forget the Perry Mason books by Earl Stanley Gardner.
Harry Potter books are fine up until Book #5.
A Rebbi I know allowed his kids to read all of them except #5.
@mikehal12382 I remember in first grade a kid brought “Green Eggs and Ham” in to class to read (mind you, this was not a very Yeshivish elementary school) and the teacher read it as “Green Eggs and Yam”.
Sherlock Holmes is selfish, arrogant and condescending. The Hardy Boys (despite their girlfriends) are probably a better influence.
Personally, I don’t feel that there is any problem with 99% of juvenile books written before 1980 or any book written before 1930. But if you really want your kids to read stuff that you are certain won’t have a bad influence on them, then they should only read books by Marcus Lehmann.
There is more to the story than what MonseyGuy wrote. I am certain.
Yeshivas have been banning books forever, even Shakespeare only makes it into Mechinas after a lot of use of Sharpie’s.
Do people really waste so much time with Facebook? I have an account with about 40 friends (and “friends”) which I check for about 5 minutes every other day or so.