akuperma

If they wanted us to work, why did they invent the internet????

If they wanted kollel students to join the “over the table” workforce, they would abolish conscription so they could take jobs in the mainstream economy without serving in the army. They would also enact laws against religious discrimination similar to the United States – Israel is one giant “hostile workplace environment” from an American legal perspective.

If they needed more hareidi soldiers, they would take seriously the enforcement of the laws requiring uniform observance of halacha in the army – which has been the law in Israel since the 1950s. As it is, the law if observed only if there are hareidim with lots of protectksia making vocal complaints.

“Mammele” who said “Williamsburg fanatics out to convert the world.” — NO, they wish to be left alone. They don’t insist that that men wear long pants or that women conceal the “cleavage” – they only don’t want to look at it. The only hasidic group that is out to “convert” anybody is Chabad and maybe Breslov (the ones with the dead rebbes).

It is the world that is offended by the Hasidim’s continued existence. According to all secular social science theory, they should have long since seen the light and entered modern society – and the secular world is highly annoyed by the fact they saw the law and decided that secular society was disgusting. The issue is not about a merchant asking customer to conform to social norms of what constitute proper dress (which in fact, is quite lawful and anything but radical, quite common in all sub-cultures even if the standards vary,and but for secular bigotry is non-controversial since the immodest customer can take their business elsewhere).

Which probably explains, in both Israel and America, why secular Jews are pursing a “Jihad” against the hareidi communities. The issue is secular bigotry and intolerance, not hasidim being properly dressed.

But could not a Vulcan be pretending to have a sense of humor, addressing the matter with very serious logic, since in CR no one would know he is a Vulcan. And if he can fake his humor, why not his gender. He could even be a Klingon in disguise.

And all the more so if the person behind the screen name is actually an unusually clever poodle.

And of course, I’ld discuss gender but of course we don’t discuss such things in mixed-up company.

The civil rights acts covers, at most, race (ethnicity), religion (requiring reasonable accomodation at no more the de minimis expense), gender and handicap. The common law might require admitting customers who are behaiving in an orderly manner, but wouldn’t allow much in terms of damages.

The initial posting didn’t refer to anything, but it would be very hard to challenge a store over a dress code unless you could argue that it violated one’s religion or that it interfered with one’s handicap. IF the issue was employment rather than shopping, it might be a little bit different, for example, there have been lawsuits (not winning ones) objecting the dress codes. Stores routinely have dress codes.

I checked google and found complaints, none of which referred to lawsuits, and one has someone at Yeshiva University’s law school (which is part of the non-frum part of YU) complaining about the inability to sue over a dress code, and an article in a less than reputable New York newspaper showing some non-Jewish women dressed in a manner that almost anyone would consider more than appropriate for a “lady of the night” than a customer in conservative family-oriented store.

Edited.

Someone is trying to sue a store over having a stated “dress code” for customers? Are they arguing that being immodestly dressed is a requirement of a certain religious group?

Unless the store is funded by the government, the case will lose. If they sue in Federal court, the plaintiff will have to prove at least some theoretical basis for thinking the suit might be valid or the lawyer will get fined.

The “penalty” for a store turning away customers is loss of the customers’ patronage.

Perhaps some group is trying to “shake down” a store owner?

If the goal is to preserve Israel as a zionist state, it is critical for the zionists to solve the pending demographic cliff. At current birthrates, and given that “baalei tseuvah” are more common than “off the derekh”, by the end of the 21st century, Israel will have a hareidi majority. Well before that, the hareidim in Israel will become a critical player since they have the option of allying with non-hareidi religious, as well as with the Arabs (an option for no other party in Israel).

The zionists have correctly determined they need to put a stop to the hareidi growth problem. Based on past experience, if you take a hareidi teenager and force him to spend three years eating food that is borderline kosher (which is the situation unless you are in a special religious unit), keeping Shabbos according to some very creative interpretations of halacha, etc., a certain percentage will go off the derekh. If you look at other countries, such as the American Jewish community after the Revolution, the Civil War, and the world wars – there is certainly a reason for the zionists to hope that mass conscription into regular army units will enable a preservation of the zionist majority.

Lapid thinks many ex-hareidim will, like his family, become hiloni. Bennett believes they will end up as “religious zionists”. The army thinks this is a recipe for disaster and will try to isolate hareidi soldiers in special units – noting that unlike the siutations in America above, if the leading Bnei Torah are drafted they will influence the other soldiers, hareidi and dati, leading to widespread disobedience of orders in the army and undermining the army. An added complication is some hareidi who hold that Medinat Yisrael exists contrary to Torah (meaning the Israelis are the “Rodef”, and therefore have no right to kill the Arabs) will refuse to serve in the army, and force the Israelis to arrest them (triggering possible international sanctions) or in effect allow anyone to refuse military service for reasons of “religion and conscience” (giving Israel a volunteer army, similar to most other countries in the 21st century).

It will be “Interesting” – as in the famous curse, “may you live in interesting times.”

Israel is very liberal in recognizing “de facto” marriages (and unlike western legal systems, Jewish law gives children of unmarried parents full rights in terms of inheritance, support, etc.). It is wishful thinking that this promotes national unity. If the government mandated “religious” ceremonies are valid (that’s a point of debate), it increases the liklihood of mamzerim. It is important psychologically to the Religious Zionists who want a facade of Israel being a “Jewish” state, but is less to the hareidi who see through that “facade.”

I assume he only became hard of hearing later in life. Is he visually impaired as well? I doubt he would mind if someone told him he was too loud, or was unaware it was Shmoneh Esray.

Remember, that unless you die first, most people end up with limited hearing and/or vision.

GEICO (which is one of the major insurance companies) doesn’t penalize you if the kid is away from home (e.g. in Israel). Indeed, one trick we learned was to have the kids get their licenses just before going to Israel. During the first year they would be listed on the insurance but only as a student away at school. When they came home, they would have a year of accident-free driving on their driving.

Of course, unless you live in a rural area, one might ask why a child nears a drivers license in the first place. It’s something of a luxury.

You have one “beshert” and that’s the one you got married to.

Health: When offered a choice between leaving Spain or taking up Avodah Zarah, left. They gave up all their property and undertook long sea voyages to places where Jews were allowed to live (in ships that would be quite uncomfortable by modern standards).

Those who remained became the “marranos.” They made a decision to publicly accept Christianity so they could keep their property. Many of them were persecuted anyways, but remember, especially if talking about the early 16th century, they were ones who decided to stay when they had a choice.

If Columbus were really a Jew, he would have been working for anyone except Spain. At that time, skilled sea captains were in demand in many countries. He chose to stay in Spain. If he was a “marrano”, he would have married a Jew. The underground Jews were very fussy about that (which is why they get annoyed when their yichus is question after 500 years of underground marriages).

And given his willingness to engage in kidnapping people to sell as slavery and ethnic cleansing, we really wouldn’t want to claim him.

Think of all the things that could happen in the near future: global warming, ice age, civil war in Israel, Israeli wars with goyim, everything that Republican trolls say about Obama come true, the stock market crashes, hypeinflation, Meshiach comes and announces that he wants to talk to all the tsadikim and your phone doesn’t ring, etc.

And remember the goyish expression: That to say “may you live in interesting times” is actually a curse

So enjoy being bored.

To make an analogy to dogs (and in this analogy the Americans are unusually friendly and intelligent canines), the Arabs are and have for most of our history been fairly moderate as beasts go. As long you don’t threaten them, or boss them around, or get in their way – they will probably like you. Around World War I we started pulling their tails and they got very annoyed. We went along with the Brits in double crossing the Arabs after the war ; at first we worked with them for an autonomous Jewish homeland within the large state the Arabs were offered for helping the Allies in the war, but by the mid-20s the zionists were firmly in charge of the Yishua and were supporting the Brits – frankly we are lucky that most Arabs didn’t flock to the Germans in WWII since it might have changed the outcome but the Arabs generally realized Hitler would eventually turn on them as well – the “Mufti” tried but couldn’t find any support.

Based on past experiences, in a post-zionist Eretz Yisrael (i.e. after the haredim become a minority and are willing to compromise on sovereignity in return for peace), the Arabs won’t object to Jews learning Torah (as long as we cover our own bills, and the most frum of the hareidim already do). They won’t draft us (under Islam, Jews didn’t have the right to bear arms). As long as we give them political control and don’t try to impose alien values on them, they will tolerate us. That has been their past pattern and there is no reason to think the past won’t repeat.

We could be active economically, certainly to a much greater extent than under the zionists, as long as we don’t get too bossy. We have only limited political rights meaning we’ld have as much control of the country as we do under the zionists. The legal system would be no more rigged against than it is today, but they would respect communal autonomy.

The hilonim would be the big losers. The infamous sort of tourism that Tel Aviv prides itself on would be banned. You wouldn’t have a Jewish girl at the Miss World contest, nor an Israeli diplomat sat the UN. Pork breeders would be in trouble. While the Muslims share a belief in a welfare state, they also have a belief in not running an economy based on printing money, so no more welfare state to sponge off of.

We should tolerate the zionists treating us as “second class citizens” as long as they don’t do something too oppressive, such as drafting yeshiva students or women. But if they did, they will be approaching a tipping point where it be time to consider going from being second class Israelis to second class Palestinians.

The alternative is to have FRIDAY as the second day off. This facilitates getting ready for Shabbos. As it is most frum Israelis take a half day off on Friday, or take the whole day off. Having Sunday has an official day off puts pressure on people to work on Friday.

There is also the issue of wanting to accomodate the Christians as opposed to the Muslims (remember that the largest religious minority in ISrael are Muslims and their day off is Friday,and also the adjacent countries are Islamic, so that closing on Sunday instead of Friday sends a message that Israel isn’t interested in peaceful coexistence with its neighbors).

Of course there is the option of a four day week.

But what if Meshiach comes and I’m dead yet? Will I get a refund? Will the cemetary transfer the grave site to Eretz Yisrael (they move bodies, they don’t move whole empty graves).

Everyone is confusing standard benefits that Israel pays all resident citizens, since Israel is a “welfare state” on a European model – with specific benefits given to those who are learning in government approved kollels. The former are quite liberal, and go someone whether or not they are employed (regardless of if they are making military goods for export, or empoyed as a teacher in a yeshiva, or whatever) and whether or not they are Jewish (as opposed to Palestinian) or whether they support the state (thus even Arabs who advocate destruction of the zionist state and are working towards that goal will still get the benefits if they are Israeli citizens).

Among good frum Jews in Europe and America the words “Shiksa” and “Shaygetz” were rude ways of referring to goyim or to Jews who act like goyim. Among the secular Yiddish speakers who lived in America in the latge 19th and 20th century (before the holocaust refugees arrived, which for the first time in America including many frum Jews), the words had a much stronger sexual overtone. The terms are well known to many Americans from the frei Jewish usage, and that usage is one that is not proper for frum Jews to use. A correct translation of the word, as used in secular Yiddish, and therefore American English, would not be allowed on YWN.

An interesting analogy is when Alphonse D’Amato wanted to both insult Charles Schumer (then running for D’Amato’s Senate seat) and used a phrase that based on the usage he had heard (from secular Jews) was mildly rude – and in fact in was (in the Yiddish of the frum Jews whose support he was seeking) extremely vulgar and obsence. Unfortunatley, there is some evidence that choice of word is why Schumer is today a leading Senator.

If this is a bricks and mortar class, circulate a condelence card. Make sure it is a secular one (this is likely to be a problem if the college is under some other religion’s auspices). This is what is common in offices. This would especially be true if its a large class as opposed to a small seminar. Another factor is whether you are just one name on a roster, or whether you actually work with this professor (e.g. your advisor, specialist in an area you are majoring in, is this someone you’ll be asking for a reference form, etc.).

Also ask why he let you know. Was he explaining why the papers weren’t graded on time and doesn’t expect a reply? Just saying “I’m sorry to hear… ” is probably adequate in person.

You might check some goyish ettiquette books.

Let’s have more fun with the definition problem – you grew up in Williamsburg but never davened with kavanah, cheated a bit on waiting six hours, talked about politics during davening — then you ran away from home, went to college, wear a kippuh srugah and daven in a Young Israel – but you actually daven during davening, never discuss politics on Shabbos, and learn all day. Or vice versa? Which is OTD and which is a BT?

How about a Shomer Shabbos thief? What about a “conservadox” or “conservative” who totally gives up on kashruth and Shabbos (OTD or doesn’t count to start with). How about a totally assimilated Jew who adopts ingredient kashruth and stops working on Shabbos, but perhaps will turn on a light – but won’t go to his job.

A good frum sociologist might dream up an index to measure frumkeit for comparison purposes. It is interesting to note that frum institutions at all levels are growing, and non-frum ones are shrinking – but that may be due to birth rates more than anything else.

There are two issues that are be co-mingled and are really separate.

One is the specific money given to kollel students for being in kollel. In the future this might be replaced with grants tied to having served in the army. Non-zionist hareidim don’t accept this money as a matter of principle. While these grants are only for the yeshivos, other subsidy programs assist secular institutions (e.g. universities) who have academic programs covering Jewish studies – and these subsidies tend to be more liberal.

The second is Israel’s liberal social benefits programs which benefit all (hiloni Jews, Russian goyim, Palestinians, etc.) but are especially important for hareidim since one of the benefits is a liberal child allowance, and we have lots of kids. Most western countries with welfare states give such allowances (in the USA its a $1000 per child tax credit). One can argue that Israeli can’t afford the liberal welfare state, but try arguing that in a country where Obama’s economic and social policies would cause him to be regarded as a right-wing fanatic (and note that most hareidi Jews are clearly on the far left of the spectrum on economic matters, which in some way reflects our tradition of meeting human needs first and then worry where the money is coming from).

1. No one has done a systematic study, and there are a lot of definitions to be played with. If some is raised Hasidische in Boro Park, and ends up being modern in New Jersey, are they off the derech, and in the reverse, are they BTs (i.e. the Young Israel kid who grows up to be a Boro Park adult)? Lines get to be very fuzzy, especially if you want a clear border between frum and not-frum, which in essence is what is needed for a neat BT/OTD discussion.

2. If you look at published Shailohs and advice columns, you’ll note that until the 1960s you were more likely to read about frum parents asking how to act when they visited their treff kids, and since then more likely to be about the BT kid asking how to deal with their non-frum parents.

3. When secular Jews study the matter, they focus on shul membership, which is problematic since many members of modern orthodox shuls are not frum by any definition, and many orthodox Jews don’t join a shul (especially in big cities, and especially among hasidim – traditionally being a member meant accepting financial responsibility for the shul as opposed to being someone who came regularly to daven there).

You also have to make a distinction between various grants that are available to anyone (Jews, Arabs, Kollel, Employed, etc.), which are sometimes focused on helping large families (again, regardless of job status or ethnicity) – and anything specifically for being in kollel, which might include money paid to the kollel itself which the kollel uses to pay the individuals. The reason this distinction is important is that if the army ties government benefits to willingness to serve in the IDF, the first type will probably continue, and the second type will disappear (at least as far as hareidim who don’t serve in the army). However these are separate types of programs.

It’s long been off patents, available generically, and frequently with a prescription. The seminary can refer you to a pharmacist who knows the local brand name. Why import from America where it is probably more expensive (and may turn out to have been shipped from Israel to begin with, since they manfucture in Israel).

They should ask their embassy/consulate what to do. For getting a non-Israeli citizenship, what matters is whether the foreign government recognizes the marriage and relationship. What the Israeli government thinks of such matters is irrelevant.