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Why not list all the features of the new law?
How much money is in there to bail out cities like San Francisco from mismanagement that predated the pandemic? How much money is in there to provide special treatment to unions and other Democrat special-interest groups? How much money is in there to provide special perks to government employees? How much of the nearly $2T in this emergency spending measure is actually scheduled to be spent this year?
70% of the American people supposedly support this legislation, including a clear majority of voters registered to both parties. Yet the Republicans in Congress unanimously opposed it. Perhaps the truth is that a lot more of the American people oppose the real details of this law. I wonder exactly how the poll questions were phrased.
To be fair, you can’t consider Charliehall (or anyone else) a hypocrite unless he’s on record saying, as Cuomo did, that he believes Dr. Ford.
The truth is that it’s right to reserve judgment for both Kavanaugh and Cuomo until they each enjoy due process.
The fact that Cuomo is responsible for thousands of deaths does not mean that he is also therefore guilty of whatever someone might allege.
ujm
I don’t want to give any information that can be used to identify me.
I am not the most Yeshivishe guy in the world, but I am what nearly all people would consider Yeshivhish. I learned in highly regarded mainstream Yeshivos, and then in BMG for several years before moving to an out of town Lakewood Kollel. After a good number of years in the Kollel, I got a position as a Rebbe in a local frum school, where I’ve been for around a decade.
The Rav in question is an alumnus of some of the most prominent Yeshivos in America and Eretz Yisrael, and is extremely frum. He is not Rav Shlomo Miller, but he may one day occupy that position among American Poskim.
I understand if you don’t want to believe me, since it’s an anonymous forum. Take it or leave it, this is the truth.
Have you ever had a real conversation with someone “on the other side of the aisle?”
My Rav is a well known and highly regarded Talmid Chacham and Posek. He is also a full-fledged liberal Democrat. I doubt he has ever voted Republican. He is not alone.
Are you suggesting that such people are not Orthodox Jews?
I was hospitalized with Covid-19 for a week in the end of March, 2020. While not the worst case, mine was pretty serious, and included pneumonia. My treatment included both HCQ and Remdesivir (both were first administered in the hospital). BH, I fully recovered within two months.
Does this prove anything about the effectiveness of either one of these medicines (or their combination) in treating Covid-19?Anecdotal evidence is absolutely useless in establishing the efficacy of a specific treatment.
Why not, indeed.
It was no less coherent than some other posts…
It’s just over four weeks since then, so I think it’s a bit soon to say that the four year thing wasn’t an exaggeration.
Somehow, people who believe this kind of garbage never imagine that the “experts” who promote the conspiracy theories have their own vested interests.
@ CTL
No need to apologize. Michael Che is a senior writer and one of the leading performers on SNL. He is currently in the headlines (including the YWM home page) because of an outrageously anti-Semitic “joke” that he used this week in Weekend Updates.
I have no problem laughing at jokes whose premise is a political ideology with which I disagree. I just have never found Che’s stuff to be any good. I find it contrived, unoriginal, and without class. Nevertheless, there must be some people who think he’s funny, or he wouldn’t have his job.
I brought him up in this conversation as an illustration that someone can be an “offensive bigot” and still be talented. It’s easier to see this when the offensive bigot is on your side.
In response to CTL, GH, et al
Rush Limbaugh was bombastic, provocative, and partisan to the extreme.
Michael Che is bombastic, provocative, and partisan to the extreme.The difference is that Rush was unquestionably one of the most talented political entertainers of his time, and Michael Che is… Michael Che.
I don’t agree with either of their viewpoints, and I think there is a lot of merit to the argument that Rush was one of the catalysts of the hyper-partisanship which currently holds our country hostage. This does not detract from Rush’s talent level (which was enormous), and the fact that someone might agree with Che does not mean that he has any talent (he’s pathetic).
@coffee addict
Fair point, I’m just reporting what he says. We can debate the merit of the vort, but I just loved the Gematria part of it.
Another really good one is from the Ba’al HaTurim in this week’s Parasha [Terumah]
ושכנתי = ושכן ת”י, referring to the 410 years of the first Beis HaMikdash
ושכנתי = ושני ת”כ, referring to the 420 years of the second Beis HaMikdashMy favorite is one I saw in Ta’amei Haminhagim
He asks, how do you know that a Gematria is allowed to be off by 1?
A: It’s an explicit Pasuk:
אפרים ומנשה כראובן ושמעון יהיו לי
אפרים ומנשה = 732
ראובן ושמעון = 731We’ve had this discussion numerous times in various threads in the CR.
Although it may not be what you learned in Yeshiva, the mainstream opinion of Rishonim and Gedolei Acharonim is that Medrashim and Agadeta Gemaros are not Torah M’Sinai and we are not required to accept them as being literally true.
This is about as intelligent a suggestion as, “Pants, meet Skirt.”
Without doubt, these are some of the most pressing issues to be discussed in the CR.
I learned years ago which brands of tissue are problematic, and which are not.
Generally speaking, the higher quality tissue companies are not a problem. These are also usually more expensive, but keep in mind that it’s הוצאת שבת, so the cost is not an issue.
In the out of town community where I live, our schools have been open this entire school year, albeit with sporadic closings of specific classes.
We have implemented a containment protocol which includes all staff and students wearing masks except when eating or during recess. Each class has maintained its own bubble, with no mixing of classes allowed during lunch, recess, or any other time.
School does not seem to be a major source of spread, judging by who did and didn’t get the virus within each class.
Our Shuls (with varying degrees of strictness) still maintain social distancing and mask wearing policies, and some even still require registration for Minyanim. Our stores (both the Jewish-owned ones and the non-Jewish-owned ones) still require mask wearing and social distancing.I was in the NY/NJ area several times recently, and in most places it’s as if there is no virus. This has to be the bigger issue than opening the schools. Indeed, it would seem to make the question of opening schools a joke. Why not open the schools if everything else (restaurants, shuls, weddings, shopping, etc) is business as usual?
The Gedolei Eretz Yisrael that you referenced were discussing whether to open school in context of a strict lockdown in the rest of society.
I don’t know why, but it seems like my last post is lost somewhere in Mod-land.
Anyway, DY, unless I misunderstood your last post, this whole thread has been based on the misconception that the two sides were arguing over the money, when in fact it’s the Chosson’s side offering to pay half (more than its share of the wedding) and the Kallah’s side asserting that it should pay two thirds (like the rest of the wedding).
This is no argument, and I’m sure it can be resolved in a friendly manner. The whole thread (including some of your posts) seems rather misleading, and not up to your usual standard.
“Yaakov only opposed ShImon and Levi’s action because it almost got them in trouble with local populous, he didn’t object to them in principle.”
Well, that’s kind of the point. The fact that they were Halachically correct in their treatment of Shechem did not override the practical consideration of not offending the locals.
Chushim is a different situation because Eisav was also not a local, and the Cana’anim probably viewed it as an internal feud among a foreign family. In any case, if he was actually a Cheresh (as it seems from Chazal), he wouldn’t have been responsible for his actions, so a reprimand or criticism would have been out of place.
I haven’t seen it “inside” in quite a while, but I don’t remember a commendation; what’s the source for that?Well, I guess by now DJT has proven that he was correct in at least one of his campaign assertions: “I could kill someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue and my supporters would continue to support me.”
I don’t know that impeachment would be the right thing for the country, and in any case, Pelosi is obviously not serious about it or she would have had the House back in session yesterday, but I don’t think there is any question that what the President did last week is impeachable.
DJT is responsible, at least indirectly, for five deaths and an assault on US property, not to mention the direct assault on the very underpinnings of American Government. If he had a conscience, he would resign immediately. But, then, if he had a conscience, we would not be in this situation.
Wow.
Tell whichever side you can that for a couple of hundred extra bucks (a drop in the bucket of wedding expenses), they can earn the appreciation of their son- or daughter-in-law by paying the extra expense. The trick is, they have to do it B’sever Panim Yafos.
Think about all the extra time they will get to spend with the grandchildren, IYH…
I’m not sure that Chushim was correct in what he did. It certainly was not the approach of the Shevatim themselves.
Yaakov made it pretty clear that Shimon and Leivi were wrong.
You can be humorous and friendly at the same time.
Try something like, “as dangerous as crawling across the African Savannah in a sheep costume.”
Here’s a good rule of thumb: Try replacing the subject of the joke with your own group. If you would find the “joke” offensive, don’t use it on anyone else, either.
Example: “About as safe as wearing a “Blue Lives Matter” t-shirt to a ‘mostly peaceful protest’ about the death of George Floyd.”
I love Country Yossi, but he was wrong in The Nebach of the Shteeble.
Yaakov Avinu’s “preparation for war” was to ensure that at least one camp would be able to escape and survive. This despite the fact that he was eminently capable of fighting back (as he demonstrated in the aftermath of Shechem).
Gadolhadorah
I know it was meant as a lighthearted attempt at humor, but I still feel I must protest.
As a proud “Litvak”, I take umbrage at the insinuation that I would attack someone who comes into my Shul waving a yellow flag and singing “Yechi…”
What I (and, I think, just about everyone else who Davens at the same Shul) would do is either ignore the guy completely, or give him a friendly greeting and offer him a drink or something (depending on what else I was doing at the time).
I certainly would not take any action against the unfortunate fellow.
יד ליד לא ינקה, IIRC, is interpreted by Chazal to refer to someone who is מרצה מעות מידו לידה so he will have a chance to interact with her.
It sounds like if it’s done innocently, there’s no problem. I can definitely see how a custom to circumvent the potential problem would develop.
I haven’t researched the issue, so I don’t have hard statistics. In my experience, and based on conversations with the professionals that I know (psychologists and social workers), the incidence of inappropriately medicating is currently extremely low.
What evidence do you have that “in majority of the case, it is done inappropriately?”
meir G +1
And I wonder if bored guy and Dr. Nat are one and the same poster. Either way, both are trolling here.
Both posts do not deserve to be quoted. It is completely unnecessary to “learn in Kollel” in order to be an exemplary Yid, but these are attacks on the very idea of “learning in Kollel.”
It’s true, as meir G points out, that this is a valid topic worthy of discussion. There is not one answer for all cases. This issue is highly personal, and depends on a myriad of variables. A proper decision can only be made with the guidance of a Rebbe who is intimately familiar with the whole situation.
Like so many other issues, this highlights the importance of having a close relationship with a Rebbe who knows you and your wife and children personally. It is impossible to get the guidance you need without such a relationship.
Overmedication occurs frequently in the beginning of treatment, as the psychiatrist works to determine the appropriate dose.
In all my years as a student (in the 1980’s and 1990’s) and as a Rebbe (the past decade or so), I have only known one Rebbe who hit a student. He was wrong.
I know more than a few parents who hit, and nearly all of them are wrong, as well.
It is an extremely rare situation that calls for corporal punishment in an educational setting (whether in school or at home), and even in such situations it is often not the correct course of action.
TLIK
FWIW, I am completely on board with your post, with a couple of notes:
I think treating ADHD with spanking is like treating a broken arm by amputating the leg.
If a school’s resources are limited, and the school is not able to provide the care that Yanky needs, I think it is a disservice to Yanky (and his classmates) not to acknowledge this fact. The administration should tell Yanky’s parents – in the most compassionate way possible – that the school is not equipped to give him the care and education he needs and deserves, and they should help Yanky’s parents find the right place for him.
This is not about laziness, it’s about trying to make sure every student gets what he needs and deserves.
Spanking a child who truly needs to be medicated is like spanking a child who has diabetes. It’s cruel and abusive, and absolutely ineffective.
If you want to help a child, give him medication if he needs it.
As a Rebbe, I am loathe to ask parents to have their son evaluated for medication. I know that as a parent, it would be a difficult phone call to receive.
I have seen the downside of medication in some of my students over the years. I know that overmedicating can completely turn off a child’s personality and make him somewhat of a robot. Nobody wants this, and doctors, parents, teachers and Rebbeim work together to find the right dose.
Even so, I can tell you that the downside is far outweighed by the benefits.
Schools, teachers, and Rebbeim do not want to medicate students who don’t need it, and they would be unable to do so in any case. The diagnosis of ADHD is based on a very large amount of data that is collected from parents, Rebbeim, teachers, therapists, and the child himself.
Talk to a psychologist. You’ll find out that there is no real benefit to a child to withhold necessary medication from him.
I agree with GH (which doesn’t happen often). The way many Jewish people talk/joke about non-Jews in general, and especially minorities, is repulsive.
Good Jewish humor is self deprecating, and usually is based on Halachic or Minhag anomalies or (superficial) inconsistencies.
Jewish humor often has an element of morbidity, as in:
“What, Moshe, there were no graves in Egypt?”Thomas and Alito, who dissented to the majority decision not to hear the case, did so not on the merits of the case, but because of their long-standing position that SCOTUS, as the court of original jurisdiction, must hear cases in which both litigants are states.
Presumably, after hearing the case, the court would have dismissed it unanimously.
CTLawyer –
“Why do you think Trump and Melania moved their official residence to Florida? To avoid the NYS Atty General and investigations, to a state that has no income tax and no returns that can be subject to scrutiny and prosecution and to avoid paying taxes due NYS and NYC.”
There is nothing wrong with moving to avoid having to pay taxes on future income, and the accompanying potential scrutiny and prosecution. I don’t doubt that this is a big part of why the Trumps moved. They have plenty of company in moving to Florida for that reason.
Unless I misunderstand something, the move will not protect them from the tax liability and accompanying scrutiny and prosecution from prior to their move.
“At the other end of the spectrum, there are some ehrliche yidden who treat the petirah of a pet like a member of the family, even to the point of engaging in some kind of “levayah” for Lassie.”
I don’t question the ehrlichkeit of these people, but they are misguided. You wouldn’t have a funeral for your favorite recliner, no matter how much you loved it. In the same way, no matter how fond you may be of your pet, it is NOT a member of the family. It is not a person with a Neshama, and your relationship with it should be different in kind from your relationship with other people.
וע”ע משניות ברכות פרק ב משנה ז ובמפרשים שם
Rav Belsky zatza”l reportedly held that a Keurig does not require tevila.
My Rav told me that although there are those who allow tevila without the cord, “it’s not Kedai to rely on that [opinion].”
You get no points for originality on this one.
It was actually Trump’s line in 2016. Speaking at the Al Smith dinner, he said (not a verbatim quote, but close enough):
Hillary and I really are very cordial with each other. In fact, when we bumped into each other, she said, “Pardon me,” and I told her, “Let’s talk about that once I’m in office.”
I don’t know much about the specific policy changes to which you refer, and what justification Barr claimed to make them.
While he has long been widely considered a man of integrity, I think you misunderstood my post.
I said he is “a Republican of impeccable credentials…,” by which I meant to highlight the absurdity of the way he is now being treated by Trumpists.
BLM and Antifa are criminals. The rioting, violence, looting, etc. that went on in the spring and summer should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, including going after all the politicians who supported it in any way.
I don’t know much about Iowa’s 2nd District. It would not surprise me in the slightest if the Democrats are trying to steal the election there. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if they had done so on the Presidential election.
I was simply wondering: Barr, who by all accounts is a Republican of the most impeccable credentials, and a member in good standing of the Trump administration, has stated that no evidence had been found of widespread fraud which could have affected the outcome of the election. How would the Trumpists deal with this?
You can point all over the map to distract from this point, but the answer is clear: Throw Barr under the bus.Health
I’ll concede that I didn’t articulate your particular strain of the “Throw Barr under the bus” position. I must note, however, that there is very little daylight between “lazily allowing the wholesale disenfranchisement of the American people,” and “conspiring with the perpetrators of the same,” so your position is not substantially different from the one you call absurd.
For all the demonizing attacks on him since he was appointed AG, I don’t think that Barr has ever been accused of laziness, even by his most vociferous detractors.
Would you ever entertain the possibility that he actually did his job, and the facts are that there is no evidence of widespread fraud which would change the result of the election?
For the record, I am a registered Republican. I wrote in a candidate in 2016 (who, incidentally, has still not conceded that election), and voted – very reluctantly – for Trump in 2020. More accurately, I voted against Biden in 2020.
I enjoy the fact that you have taken to using the President’s peculiar rules for capitalization. It really lends credibility to your arguments.
Giuliani (in response to Barr): “With all do respect, there hasn’t been the semblance of an investigation.”
So I guess it’s Option #1. Not really surprising.
It’s astounding that people like Rudy Giuliani and Sydney Powell would tie their otherwise stellar reputations to such a deadweight.
AG William Barr said that the DOJ has not discovered any evidence of widespread fraud.
The options for Trump and his supporters are:
1) Throw Barr under the bus. Call him a RINO and NeverTrumper who conspired with the DNC to steal the election.
2) Assert that the conspiracy was so well orchestrated that even Barr, with all the resources of the DOJ (which comprises, among other divisions, the FBI) was not able to find it, but it really did happen.
3) Concede that Biden won fair and square.
Any guesses about how this plays out?
@torahvaluesoverparty –
“First of all the point of this thread was to say that these lockdowns are unconstitutional.”You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. Without expressing my own, I would simply note that there is a legitimate debate to be had on the topic.
“There are many things in the Torah that would be deemed unconstitutional.”
What does the Torah have to do with the Constitution?
“Secondly, you all have to explain where the line is drawn. You all have to explain why, according to daas torah, one is permitted to drive a car when there is a risk to yourself, and others, in doing so. To me, the answer is simple. Hashem wants us to live a normal life. Not do crazy things that put one in danger. Driving a car a low risk. Not being careful with a plague such as Ebola is reckless.”
Correct. The line is שומר פתאים השם.
“But when we have virus with a 98% survival rate, those who are not at risk shouldn’t be stuck at home not feeding their families. Those who are at risk can be responsible to protect themselves as they see fit. I don’t think that living an abnormal life for a year straight, for no reason other than to please your local tyrant Democratic leaders, what Hashem wants.”
The point here is that the Torah requires us to follow the law, even if it is unreasonably restrictive. If the law requires us to lock down, the Torah requires us to follow suit. This is not because of health considerations, but because of דינא דמלכותא. We don’t have to like it, but we have to do it.
In all your talk, you still haven’t refuted the basic point that the Torah does not support the idea that liberty is more important than life.
@charliehall, of course you’re right. I was only using the phrase “Da’as Torah” because it had previously been used in this thread.
Just like you said, Judaism says nothing about our rights. The Torah speaks of our responsibilities and obligations. The “freedom” of the Torah, חירות על הלוחות, is the freedom to rise above the physical, subjective nature of man. It is the liberty to view ourselves and the world objectively, to serve Hashem without our own petty desires and selfishness getting in the way.
@commonsaychel, what are you referring to?
@torahvaluesoverparty, regardless of whether any specific restriction is justified, Patrick Henry was wrong. I’m not even sure I understand the point of your last post; do you mean to say that since certain politicians are pushing their own agenda, we should prefer to die than to listen to them? What do you think it meant to go back to מצרים? Is it worse to suffer the consequences of a lockdown than to endure the cruelty of פרעה?Honestly, sometimes I think people are so blinded by allegiance to their party that they conflate its platform with Torah values. What, then, of your username?
It seems to run counter to Da’as Torah.
Halacha prefers life to death in nearly all cases, however poor the quality of life.
Klal Yisrael said טוב לנו עבוד את מצרים ממותנו במדבר.It doesn’t improve your image to slur others.
This is one of the (many) things that DJT doesn’t understand. Biden demonstrated [again] in the first debate, as he has done many times over the years, that he doesn’t get this either.
It’s remarkable to me how the Presidency of DJT has caused so many otherwise rational people to behave in such demonstrably irrational ways, on both sides of the aisle.
True comity in politics has been missing for a long time (maybe since Washington’s second term), but the past four years have been on a level I’ve never seen before. I’m happy for it to end.
Cuomo’s spin on it was nothing more than political posturing. There is, unfortunately, no guarantee that NY will not return to the conditions which originally set these restrictions in motion. That they are currently relaxed is completely beside the point.
השם ישמרנו מכל נגע ומחלה
Charliehall –
““It’s easy to do from Venezuela if you have the computer manual.”
No it isn’t…”
I think se2015 was being rather facetious.
I hope your pickles were okay.
Ben Levi
Are you seriously making the argument that contemporary USA is an environment more disagreeable to Torah observant Jews than any other country in our long exile?
You really need to stop drinking that Kool-Aid.
The USA is, without comparison, the single most benevolent and amenable host whose hospitality we have enjoyed (or, in most cases, endured) since the Churban. Instead of repeating absurd talking points, we should make an effort to appreciate what we have, even as we pine to return home.
CTLawyer
You’re obviously an intelligent and successful person. While I don’t always (or even usually) agree with you on policy, I respect your opinion, which is typically expressed in the dispassionate tone of intellectual debate. The vitriol of emotional fighting does not become you. DJT is not worth you stooping beneath your dignity.