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@somejewiknow, so Jews have been expelled from 109 countries? And entirely through our fault? Wow… I feel like this is Elon Musk’s X.
I’m not denying that everything means something. It’s heresy and Avodah Zarah to claim that any single individual knows the cause of everything. Assuming that is a single cause. לא קם בישראל כמשה. And he had plenty of questions as well on why bad things happen to good people.
/s I see we have some members of the CR who can answer that! Where do I sign up for brachos? /sCC’ing @HaKatan here as well:
Of course the two of you have the answer to everything. The Gedolim have explained it. Yet you don’t source most of your inflammatory comments about Zionists. To Judaize a famous non-Jewish expression, the Chazon Ish said you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the Internet. Theodicy is above my level and above yours. One can believe G-d is just without understanding literally every component; literally anyone who ever lived would go crazy before understanding. Unless you think you can, because you think you’re greater than Moshe Rabbeinu.
But in any case, why do you cherrypick quotes from multiple Gedolim and ignore everything else they say? No one here quotes the Chazon Ish in determining Halachic measurements. In other words, you don’t care for what he says when it doesn’t deal with validating your views.
Lastly, if you can cherrypick Gedolim and their quotes, why can’t I? Oh, right, because Rav Kook went OTD. /sHaKatan, 2025: “If not for the wicked Zionists, those “survivors” would not have gone through the Holocaust in the first place.”
A Jewish joke, set around 1943: The Germans and their collaborators are forcing a transport of Jews into a gas chamber at Auschwitz. Someone in that group, moments away from death, yells the Shema. Another Jew, also walking in, interrupts and yells, “Quiet! You’ll provoke the Umos Ha’Olam!”
HaKatan has referred to survivors in quotes. Implying that they call themselves and are referred to as survivors, but are not. Just another Jewish antisemite who believes the Holocaust was our fault. To quote a satirist (I can’t recall whom), “We Jews have been kicked out of 109 countries. Isn’t it time we take a look in the mirror?”
HaKatan, no. We haven’t been kicked out of 109 countries, but your ilk believes it was our fault. Jews are entirely unpersecuted, and everything done was a consequence of a specific action, correct?
Anyone interested can reread my post about HaKatan on a previous thread, linked at https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/uk-france-and-canada#post-2441011. Believing in Hitler’s lack of free will is Avodah Zarah. Believing that we provoked him is Jewish self-hatred. HaKatan, for all your concern about התגרות באומות, have you never been concered with התגרות בישראל? If you want to believe Zionism has nothing to do with you, don’t obsess over it. You and the Zionists you describe are two sides of the same coin.
We can all repent! גמר חתימה טובה!
I have the same question about Neturei Karta, although it does also apply to our resident trolls. How do we know they are Jewish? They’re definitely on Iranian and Qatari payrolls, but are they even Jewish?
Take some of its leaders, such as “Rabbis” Yisroel Dovid Weiss, Dovid Feldman, Yitzchok Deutsch, or any of its other prominent stochastic terrorists. Does anyone know who they are and where they come from?
Take a shul in Turkiye, for example. These shuls do exist, although not under the best of circumstances, so if you show up there unannounced, don’t know anyone, and have never communicated with them before, they’ll want assurance you don’t pose a threat. Generally in such circumstances, they’d ask you to recite a prayer in Hebrew to demonstrate your likelihood of being Jewish.
Meanwhile, Weiss and friends protest publicly on Shabbos. There’s a video of someone asking them if they know Aleinu, or one of several other prayers. They do not know it, which makes it all the more suspicious.
The main suspicion, though, is where they come from. Does anyone know of a firsthand source saying they knew any of its prominent members before joining? In which case, a few questions:
1) Who were Yisroel Dovid Weiss’s parents? Names please; referring to them as “Hungarian-born Holocaust survivors” is way too generic and doesn’t answer the question. Or any of these rabble rousers, who are they?
2) Which yeshiva did any of them go to? Which shul did their parents attend?
3) What were their jobs before NK? No prominent member of that terrorist organization has become prominent before age 40+. What did they do before that, and how did they get connected with NK?My criticisms and doubts apply primarily to the branches in the US and UK. The Meah Shearim branch (e.g. Toldos Aharon and affiliated groups) is certainly Jewish, and their opposition to Zionism is more based on Messianic eschatology than politics. But for the ones based in Monsey and Stamford Hill, it’s mighty suspicious. So I ask, does anyone know the origins of these people?
I’m not going to answer the question because I realize I don’t know. No one does. There hasn’t been any significant study done to my knowledge. Our resident Kanoim and likeminded people will say that the IDF causes people to go OTD; a quite obvious cause and effect. Hesder-minded people won’t want to discuss it because obviously one is too much.
Those who speak don’t know. It’s unlikely anyone does know; even if someone does, they won’t talk about it based on demographics. LuckyStrike, I appreciate that you’re asking questions, but take everything with a grain of salt; it is an emotionally loaded topic with great incentives to bend the truth.HaKatan appears to believe that the only individuals in the universe with free will are “Zionists”. I’m putting the term in quotes here because it’s not accurate to describe literally every person who doesn’t want Israel dissolved as a Zionist. So I’m yielding to define it as whomever HaKatan thinks are Zionists.
In this fantasy world, Zionists know the level of their own evil and choose to act upon it with disregard for all else. The Mufti, every Arab terrorist ever, and even literal Adolf Hitler (שר”י) don’t have free will and were provoked by Zionists and Zionism.
This hypocrisy is blatant. Jews are and always were a persecuted people. Zionism is a response to that, in opposition to begging for acceptance. Even if you take the illogical pan-Arabist assumption that Jews (“Zionists”) caused every conflict in the Middle East at face value, why and how did they get to such power? What is their interest in the Levant or anywhere else?
There’s a medieval Polish saying that has been gaining popularity these days among “anti-Zionist” crowds: “The Jew will tell you everything that happened to him, but will never tell you why.” We all know who it’s supposedly referring to, but those Jews will freely tell us about the (sometimes state-sponsored) blood libels, pogroms, and genocides we went through over two millennia.
That saying can technically apply to individual Jews, but not necessarily because of their Jewishness. Yet the best faction of people in the world it describes are revisionist thinkers who unite by ideology alone.
HaKatan has fell for the same trap and wants to lure others in. To assume that Zionists provoked, strong-armed, and removed free will of every antisemite of at least the past 150 years is revisionist history. That’s who the saying applies to. And to claim that any individual has absolutely no free will, let alone one with so much discretionary power, is, to use a favorite of HaKatan, Avodah Zarah. אלה אלוהיהם.HaKatan, your selectiveness is indeed “because I said so”.
According to you, multiple newspapers at the time describing events as they went on daily, all of which supplied more to the story than Rabbi Kaplan, are not valid sources. But his lack of connectedness with current events outside his daled amos, as present in 1929, is 100% emes!
HaKatan, you don’t care enough about historical accuracy. If anyone wants a better picture of what happened both immediately before and after, you are invited to read an article titled “Eye Witnesses Describe Horrors of the Moslem Arabs’ Attacks at Hebron on Saturday, August 24”. It’s dated September 1, 1929, and is available publicly and online from the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA).
Rabbi Jacob Joseph Slonim understood his city much better than any American relatively fresh off the boat with next to no connection to current events. Haganah youth didn’t show up in Chevron one day before for no reason. Rabbi Slonim didn’t necessarily agree with their presence (based purely on excessive optimism) but knew why they were there.
This is my last post on this thread. I’ve made my case, and everyone besides the three stooges knows that said individuals lack reading comprehension skills. They should learn some political history and evolution of communal relationships in Eretz Yisrael, once they rejuvenate their brains from long(er)-form brainrot.
HaKatan, you can have the last word if you want it so badly. My posts above, although directed at you, are not intended for you. I wouldn’t argue this with a close-minded stranger in an empty room, ditto for a close-minded stranger in private. Anything so pressing and leading to so much disagreement contains more to the story. Right or wrong, you’ll get nowhere without that.somejewiknow, I gave sources. I don’t dispute R’ Kaplan as a source, only that there was more to the story. Has HaKatan (or anyone) done the same for me? I disputed some claims and give sources, no one else has done so.
These reactions boil down to the classic childish bully tactic: “because I said so”.somejewiknow, I acknowledged R’ Kaplan multiple times in this thread and explained inaccuracies. I referenced sources at the time, not recollections, with many more details. It is a greater source when analyzing it since they had more diverse knowledge. No one has rebutted this.
Do anti-Zionists have reading comprehension skills? Do they listen, or only hear?HaKatan, why do you lack sources for every single one of your claims in response to me? I referenced the Palestine Post and Ha’Aretz. What have you referenced?
UJM:
I’m not affiliated with any of those yeshivas, and neither are you. Do you even know a single person (personally) who attended literally any?
I don’t know who you are but am fairly certain that the gimmel-level shiurim at Gush or Mercaz Harav is on a level higher than just about anything you learn. With all your rhetoric, show me a post where you gave mareh mekomos for ANY of your controversial takes.
Until then, your post is motzei shem ra, libel, and slander. These students of yeshivas I mentioned are a lot more familiar than you are and are frankly greater Talmidei Chachamim in the making than you’d even desire to be. The level of learning varies in others, but based on past experience with your ilk, it actually exists, unlike emotional rhetoric accusing almost every Jew alive of being a heretic.HaKatan, I acknowledged that R’ Kaplan lived in Chevron at the time. For the umpteenth time, which part of the following is hard to understand?
If you pride yourself on NOT following current events, you won’t know what happens until it directly affects you. Saying they read the Palestine Post at the Chevron Yeshiva is extremely unlikely. His views at the time were certainly inaccurate and would never be accurate until he acknowledges parts that he wasn’t told, which would require adjustment of views.
Why are his views the only possibly true version of events? My great grandfather learned in Chevron at the same time and was no Zionist at any point in his lifetime. Yet he didn’t think the blame was on any single individual or faction. Saying “Zionists caused it” is oversimplified and inaccurate in the sense of the word “cause”.
To reiterate my comment in my previous post: You still haven’t answered my Occam’s Razor sighting on this thread or others beyond “nuh uh… because I said so.”
By the way, thanks for yielding on my challenge for primary sources of the time, not fuzzy recollections decades later from people who didn’t follow current events at the time. This will be my last post on this thread unless someone has those sources, I’ve made my point.UJM: Considering you live in Gateshead, and you mentioned your proximity (definitely geographic but also hashkafic?) to Rav Avrohom Gurwicz, what do you make of him explicitly saying to vote for Eretz HaKodesh in the WZO election a few months ago? It’s described at https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2376328/harav-avrohom-gurwicz-rosh-yeshivas-gateshead-its-a-chiyuv-to-have-a-say-in-the-wzo.html, where you notably didn’t comment on an article that you probably would treat contentiously if it were almost anyone else.
1) Is he your Daas Torah?
2) If so, did you vote for EH?
3) Do you believe his views are ideal for all Jews, even though not everyone will realistically follow those?
4) Is Rav Gurwicz an apikorus, am haaretz, or any other derogatory term that you and others in your ilk like to throw around on this site when referring to Zionists and their supporters/collaborators?Disclaimer: I understand that there is a wide variety of views, and I’m not discounting any of them or those who espouse such. My understanding is of אלו ואלו. I probably wouldn’t seek Rab Gurwicz’s opinions on a lot of things for the sake of following them due to my lack of affiliation with Gateshead Yeshiva and Rav Gurwicz himself. But when I do hear about his opinion, it’s definitely worthy of respect, even if I or anyone I find more hashkafically similar disagrees. (For reference, I accept his authority, as well as that of any rav I disagree with, specifically if I ask him the question myself and he understands the situation before giving a tailored answer. I didn’t seek his opinion on this issue, so especially as he is largely a daas yochid in Charedi communities in Chutz La’Aretz, it isn’t necessarily binding on people who have no affiliation with Gateshead Yeshiva.)
My question is about your portrayal of a straight and narrow path. You are against rabbi-shopping, so it sounds like Rav Gurwicz is your Rav. I want to understand how you justify such opposition. I voted for Mizrachi and would not try to recruit for EH, but am still super curious how you’d explain this.Looking forward to direct answers on each of my four numbered questions!
HaKatan, lecture me as much as you want how R’ Kaplan absolutely must be correct. Yeshivas of the time (and some today) pride themselves on separating from the outside world. News included. Historical accuracy involves familiarity with that history, not just soapbox. You still haven’t answered my Occam’s Razor sighting on this thread or others beyond “nuh uh… because I said so.”
In any case, I repeat my challenge to review newspapers of the time describing tensions building up for days prior. Until then, I cannot take you seriously.
Also, to address Always Ask Questions as well, I’m not disregarding blame; I emphasized the word “cause” to challenge the supposedly obvious cause-effect claim. There’s nothing that would make the massacre the fault of any single faction alone. Then again, when do antisemites in government need a valid reason to attack convenient nearby Jews?With all due respect to R’ Baruch Kaplan, his understanding of the Chevron massacre was historically inaccurate because of how tensions built up for a week and a half prior. Some frum groups asked the Waqf for permission to use a mechitzah at the Kosel on Tisha B’av; a far cry from the boogeymen who the anti-Zionists on this forum describe. The Mufti then used that as a pretext for claiming Jews wanted to take over al-Aqsa. Violent incidents based on this claim as a motive didn’t start in Chevron, the pressure keg exploded in Jerusalem first.
This was recorded at the time in the Palestine Post and other Hebrew-language newspapers published then. That’s why there were Zionist youths riding around Chevron on motorcycles a day prior; they knew what was happening and legitimately patrolled to protect its Jewish community. No Zionist CAUSED the massacre, although the Old Yishuv has slightly more blame (they didn’t directly cause it either); nobody knew what that simple request would cause.
It is highly unlikely that anyone in the Chevron Yeshiva was reading printed daily versions of the Palestine Post, Haaretz, or any other newspapers. Saying they did contradicts the whole function of what yeshivas of that nature are intended to be. If one doesn’t know current events, and it then affects them, it’s entirely inaccurate that it’s targeting them personally. One who doesn’t know about rising tensions will be caught ill-prepared and certainly does not have an entirely accurate picture of what happened.
Anyone who wants to challenge this series of events as described should review archives of the Palestine Post, Haaretz, and other Jewish dailies in Palestine and abroad, roughly between August 15-28, 1929. You’ll see how tensions climbed from Tisha B’av onward, regardless of individuals who chose to ignore it. Much of this is available as scans from the National Library of Israel; publicly accessible on their website page of Historical Jewish Press.
Mr. HaKatan and his ilk have never responded to such claims because there is no answer. Leave me on read and ignore this if you’d like; this isn’t for you but for anyone who actually cares about historical accuracy, not political soapbox.HaKatan is obviously unfamiliar with or intentionally chooses to ignore Pan-Arabism; the common denominator between massacres in Tzefas in the 19th century, Chevron in 1929, and the constant terrorism Israel faces today. He would be the most valuable spokesman (read: tokenized propagandist) for Haj Amin al-Husseini and anyone who appreciates such.
One can believe that the IDF is doing G-d’s work in keeping millions of Jews safe (השתדלות). One can also believe that people should not be pulled out of yeshiva or other obligations for that end. An organization can exist without everyone being required to be a member of said organization. Where’s the contradiction?
HaKatan and friends,
Can any of you give a source where R’ Aharon Kotler wrote that “Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik was ‘responsible for all the tuma in America'”?
I’ll wait, although I don’t think it will come. Chronology isn’t the strong point of anti-Zionists. Not to mention that even if given, it will be tenuous thanks to a confirmation bias to accept literally any quote that makes Zionists look bad.
Valid sources are either in writing from R’ Aharon himself (whether in a sefer, letter, etc.) or if supposedly said verbally, a recording or claim from someone who heard it firsthand. Lenni Brenner ym”s doesn’t count. והמבין יבין.HaKatan has still not answered my questions about whether the Zionist Bergson/Kook caused the Shoah, and whether various American Gedolim were wrong to collaborate with him. Neither has he answered the reason for massacres in Hebron & Safed in 1517, 1834, and beyond, as discussed in another recent thread.
I speak of him in the third person because I know that HaKatan won’t answer me. My responses are not intended to change HaKatan’s mind nor that of his sympathizers; they are lost causes who spread drivel and lies against our only land. Rather, it is so that an uninformed but open-minded reader won’t fall for the greatest blood libel in history. It’s so that antisemites don’t go unchallenged.
שטיקה כהודאה. Silence is complicity. Or to quote HaKatan’s friend Linda Sarsour (using a generic quote that is in no way original), with language he can understand, “we are not here to be bystanders”.HaKatan, if you have anything to say, please do. Explain the policies of the Zionist movement as a whole toward Jews of Europe during the Shoah. (Do they teach about Menachem Begin’s activity at that time in Satmar yeshivas?) To quote you, “Perfidy is not a history book”. You got that right – it is an editorial.
Explain why the politically neutral Jews in Hebron and Safed were massacred by their Mamluk, Egyptian, and Ottoman governments, despite (more likely because of) their dhimmi status.
Spoiler alert, you can’t!HaKatan,
I’m a Zionist and read Perfidy. As you (should) know, the Zionist Ben Hecht wrote it as a hit piece on Israel’s Labor Party immediately before an election, headed by Ben Gurion and which Kastner was a member of. You remind me of Simon Wiesenthal’s cover for Kurt Waldheim because of partisan loyalty, despite Waldheim’s Nazi past. (Read Betrayal by Eli Rosenbaum if you don’t know what I’m talking about.)
Let me ask you, was collaborating with the Zionist Peter Bergson (Hillel Kook) so wrong? If Zionists caused the Holocaust, did Bergson cause the Holocaust?
Do you think Rav Eliezer Silver, Rav Avraham Kalmanowitz, Rav Moshe Feinstein, and hundreds of other Rabbanim did the wrong thing by collaborating with Bergson/Kook?
Bonus question, did the socialist Zionist (Hashomer Hatzair leader) Mordechai Anielewicz cause the Holocaust?I look forward to your direct reply!
Yes, English should be optionary. And why stop at that?
Is it ok that children learn Arabic numbers?/j
Paging UJM, HaKatan, and the other anti-Zionists on this forum:
So you blame the Hebron Massacre of 1929 on Zionists. I won’t debate that because it won’t help, but can you explain why the Ottomans massacred Jews there in 1517? Or the Egyptians as well in 1834? Ditto for Safed, same years.
Political Zionism didn’t exist before 1870s (estimating generously) and the Jews of both cities weren’t exactly taking sides with the Mamluks in the former case, nor the Ottomans in the latter. Is Occam’s Razor so controversial when concluding that antisemites have always existed in and desiring Eretz Yisrael?
And by the way, UJM, your suggestion about the UN taking over gets excessively dumber as the years go by. I am certain even the Satmar Rebbe wouldn’t have said that in 2025 (his successors certainly have not said so) as the UN gets more hostile.
Plenty of genocides are occurring across the world. Based on a quick search of the UN website, the word “genocide” appears 286 times. But when you search there for certain ethnic groups suffering genocide in 2025, nothing comes up. The word “Druze” does not appear on the UN website even once (notably not in reports or transcripts of speeches). Ditto for “Maronite”. “Sufi” comes up once as a culture with no mention of genocide. Nothing about persecution of Yazidis either.
Do you blame anyone for not wanting the UN to take over the Holy Land?I can’t speak for the Beryls, or even a Shmeryl (sic). But I can say that I wouldn’t oppose it being Hurricane Shmerel. After all, the shlemazel-ish thoughts associated with the name may get people to flee, lest they become a Shmerel (or Gimpel).
Avira, when I say anti-Zionist yeshivas, I don’t mean Satmar or a yeshiva that had an official anti-Zionist policy. What I mean is a yeshivish yeshiva in which the rebbeim personally had anti-Zionist views AND proudly espoused said views. I prefer not to name any, lest I give too much information to remain anonymous.
The attitudes I was familiar with were of the nature that require a lot of assumptions and specific long-winded scenarios to be true. For example, it was claimed that Herzl would spit at a frum person if he saw them in the street. No one ever accused him of doing such to them or in their sight, and it would be downright false to claim that he never saw a frum person in his life.
Regarding Perfidy, I wasn’t sufficiently anti-Zionist in the views of the hanhala. Without mentioning any ideas such as not building a state before Moshiach, the first line of defense was that I should read Perfidy. There was barely any discussion of hashkafa regarding this anti-Zionism, only passing references to Herzl’s secular lifestyle. He certainly was secular and atheistic, but was on good terms with rabbanim who wouldn’t dismiss him. That’s why he corresponded with the first Chortkover Rebbe, Rav Dovid Moshe Friedman, even though the Rebbe was not a supporter. Of course, Herzl wanted support, but I don’t recall any source that he sought to force his lifestyle on others. Rav Kook and Rav Reines collaborated with Herzl, although acknowledging them as gedolim doesn’t fit a certain narrative. Rav Kalischer and Rav Alkalai predated Herzl, but very much supported practical Zionism.
By the way, Herzl was not the founder of Zionism, Leon Pinsker was. Herzl’s idea was more than a decade later, piggybacking off Pinsker, and certainly involved the “permission of the nations”. That’s why Herzl met Kaiser Wilhelm during the Kaiser’s visit to Eretz Yisrael in 1898; to attract support from the nations.
I have tremendous respect for certain anti-Zionist rabbanim, such as Rav Elchanan Wasserman, who opposed it as a concept when there was no state. I believe he would be more pragmatic (like Agudah) if he lived a few more years. Ditto for the Satmar Rebbe Rav Yoel Teitelbaum, who had tremendous Ahavas Yisrael and practiced the ideal of “hate the sin, love the sinner”.
I’m not going to debate this anymore, but I’m putting this out there because someone reading this who is otherwise unfamiliar should know there is another side to the story. Whoever wants the last word can have it.Loving the mental gymnastics on this thread. The No True Scotsman fallacy is in full display re: Ben Hecht.
Anyway, it’s funny how anti-Zionists view Zionists as a monolith. Anti-Zionists should love that the Zionists of the time were divided between Lehi, Irgun, Haganah, etc. Not to mention the many types of thought (e.g. cultural, political, religious (which they will deny), practical, etc.)
I attended anti-Zionist yeshivas for part of my life, and I can attest to what Smerel says regarding the mentality surrounding Ben Hecht. The attitude of “read Perfidy, case closed” only demonstrates the closedmindedness of many people.
For the record, I read Perfidy; I know what it says. It was an accusation against a specific Zionist who should (but doesn’t) get the posthumous de Haan treatment. Needless to say, treating Perfidy, a book covering a specific portion of history, as some kind of sacred text (as I’ve seen, and don’t tell me I didn’t), is misappropriating the sacred and the profane.I’m not going to debate anything, and will not respond to “questions” that are really opinions. But I cannot be a bystander while an entire portion of the Jewish People is smeared. I’m only responding to questions in the original post because I don’t want to be a bystander and there is an audience who may not here this if no one else speaks up.
Depending on who you ask, it was started by R’ Samson Raphael Hirsch or R’ Asriel Hildesheimer. The current Yekke community (i.e. Breuer’s) will deny the former, hence I’m referencing the latter. Basic math makes it about 175 years old.
Regardless of which of the two you will choose to focus on, don’t lie to me and say that they either was not a savior of Orthodox Judaism in Germany.
The current version that we see in America today is based on the ideas of Rabbi Joseph Ber Soloveichik & Rabbi Dr. Norman Lamm (not an exhaustive list, but two major ones that come to mind).
The Mesorah is as old as the Torah, as in 3335 years. They are Orthodox and have more respect for Chareidi rabbis than you have for Modern Orthodox rabbis. What they all share is the belief that there is wisdom from the outside world as well; it complements Judaism.
Anything written in the Torah is a must, assuming it applies. (In the sense that not every mitzvah applies unless you are simultaneously male, female, kohen, levi, yisrael, married, single, living in EY & chutz la’aretz, and the list goes on…) Therefore, it is mandatory if written in the Torah; not necessarily mandatory just because one rabbi said it. I believe Tosfos says in Pesachim that one is not required to follow a ruling of beis din if they have a valid source from another rabbi in the period of the ruling’s source or earlier who disagrees. Don’t dismiss this unless you can attest that you learned the entire Pesachim with Rashi & Tosfos and didn’t find it.
A rabbi must be consulted in cases of ambiguity and doubt; that’s what they exist for. Hope I answered your questions. Like I said, I will not debate UJM or anyone else. I will only answer serious questions; not poorly disguised opinions.Not to be a nudnik, but there is a problem when the yeshivishe oilam thinks that they have a monopoly on the “Torah world”. Don’t confuse Torah, the basis of our faith, with being yeshivish; a mentality. Being yeshivish requires Torah; having Torah does not require being yeshivish.
I never thought I’d say this as a response to AAQ, but UJM has a point.
YU’s roots are in the Eitz Chaim Yeshiva in the Lower East Side. When the neighborhood continued on the dense path it went on, YU/RIETS decided to move their campus to Washington Heights due to its upper class status (in comparison).
YU may not be for the proletariat but that doesn’t mean that there are no Jews who can afford it. And yes, Manhattan was the center of American Jewish life when YU opened up there.Gotta love Alternative History.
@mdd1, I apologize if I wasn’t clear enough in referring to Western Ukraine as Western Ukraine. It is correct to say that Galicia was Austria. What is not correct is that other regions were all Russia. Poland was larger before WWI, controlling areas such as Volhynia. Lithuania was larger before WWI, controlling areas such as Kyiv and Odessa (which are not near each other; my point exactly).
As a descendant of Jewish immigrants from Ukraine, my ancestors declared their birth country when filing for naturalization in the early 1920’s as Poland. I.E., Congress Poland, which I realize was part of the Russian Empire, but was Poland at the time of the Tach ve’Tat massacres that non-Russian pro-Russian Jews are fond of bringing up. Khmelnitsky was not Ukrainian; he was a citizen of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (later and presently Ukraine).
Does the Pale of Settlement mean anything to you, by the way? Just curious if you realize that Jews were restricted to that area, also known as apartheid. All Russia’s doing. Don’t try to spin the story.And on a side note, does anyone think Russia was kinder to the Jews than Ukraine?
You say Ukraine was part of Russia (implying Russia proper) but then blame the Ukrainian government for actions committed by Russia when Ukraine didn’t have their own country?
I would never have said this in most contexts because I know it’s history, but I’ll say it now (and congrats to the folks who can read it without Google):
слаьа украина!If only the pro-Russia folks on this site would realize the following:
Yes, Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union (not Russia proper) until 1991. The only reason that stayed until so recently was due to WWII; Hitler invaded Ukraine (which was Austria & Poland at that point). Stalin won it at the end of the war and hence added it to the Soviet Union.
Stop unwittingly supporting Nazism.@common saychel, did I ever say that was the case? None of the gedolim you just mentioned were on this site. I’m not comparing; merely pointing out the difference between people who post on here PRETENDING to know what they’re talking about and an actual rav.
@ujm, Have you ever learned מסכת עבודה זרה? Already in the beginning, there are opinions (פירושים) which, when discussing the relationship one can have with an ‘עובד ע”ז, תוס says it is permissible to do business with them even on their holidays, for the same reason. Despite the גמ’ saying otherwise, משום איבה. But I doubt you know that because you probably haven’t learned it. The basis for entering a church under some circumstances comes from the same general area.
@common saychel, I refer to Rabbi Sacks ZT”L and Rabbi Mirvis Shli”ta when I refer to people who are greater talmidei chachamim than anyone on this site.@ujm, eating chazir is an explicit prohibition in the Torah (must have split hooves and chew its cud). I’m not denying any source’s legitimacy when saying that entering a church is forbidden. However, please recognize the right to other opinions, especially when that opinion is from someone who is a greater talmid chacham than anyone on this site.
At the wedding of William & Kate (also in Westminster Abbey), Rabbi Sacks ZT”L attended due to fear of Chillul Hashem if he didn’t.
Considering Rabbi Mirvis is representing the Jewish people at the funeral, as a rav in his own right, I don’t see him not going. משום איבה.“(Except, in those cases, they are mostly not well deserved.)” Sounds pretty selective to me…
Do you deny that anti Semites love using Soros as their prime example of Jews controlling the world?