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There are two separate issues here. Making a wedding/getting married.
When you find the right person you do not put off getting married. However, making a wedding is a choice. I remember, in my generation, 40 years ago, several of my friends got married without a wedding – with a rav, family & a minyan. Then her friends & family made “extra special” sheva brachot for the couple.
I know it is hard, but just ignore social pressures.
Moisha’s – Avenue M – excellent prices, valet parking, BUT Kollel store on 39th is a bit cheaper
I always give something that can be served at the seuda. Fortunately/unfortunately, I have been roped into giving the same thing year after year (when I tried something different I got phone calls !!)
I make vegetarian liver, with a bag of veggies to dip, and a selection of crackers & a fruit.
Exactly correct, that is what we do. We give a fairly large check with a bottle of wine to the Rabbeim that we wish and a smaller check to Tomchei Shabbos.
Personally, I like giving to those I personally and know they could use a bit of help.
Honestly, I do not think Rabbeim are paid enough for what they do. I think a bottle of wine, a fruit and cash/check would be most appreciated
What a nutty misconception. There are many middle class MO neighborhoods, ie: West Hempstead, Oceanside, Staten Island, etc. We may make more money because we are schooled in skills that bring in better salaries, HOWEVER, our “Jewish” expenses are the same with the exception of Yeshiva tuition. Ours is much, much higher because we expect and demand an excellent education for our children.
In my neighborhood, both parents work, often both full-time without live in housekeepers.
We may not have families with 6+ children, but there is not a family in my neighborhood with less than 4 kids in a family.
Most of our kids do not go to sleep-away camp for a full summer, because we all pay full tuition. Vacations are stay-cations OR a visit to grandparents in Florida (no hotel or restaurant expenses) Most of our Yeshivas have uniforms as well, so our children do not wear expensive clothes. Our girls babysit, our boys shovel snow, and we all drive new cars that we keep forever.
Flatbush is NOT typical of MO and neither are the 5 Towns, because too many of these couples are living on Mommy & Daddy’s money. Their parents buy their houses, the kids clothes, and help pay tuition. They are not typical of MY lifestyle.
Okay, this is based on the experience of my daughters. They truly enjoyed going to a Dunkin Donuts for coffee on their first dates. (If it was evening) You sit and schmooze for an hour or two and then the date is over. Perfect for a first date – FYI DO NOT go somewhere in her neighborhood, running into someone she knows when on a date is awkward !!! (obviously a kosher DD) no eating, coffee or tea or snapple and a donut if hungry.
ALWAYS tell a young lady where you plan to go, so she knows what to eat beforehand.
If it was a day (Sunday) date, a park or a zoo is wonderful. Walk & talk, buy a drink, what you see around you helps conversation. The date can be as long or as short as need be – if you are connecting. Sometimes, if they were enjoying each others’ company, they would get a light bite to eat, but most “good” girls are very careful about expecting a yeshiva guy to spend big bucks.
Often, a third or fourth date was a picnic prepared by her so she could reciprocate the expenses. At that point you would be comfortable discussing who brings what.
A first date is often awkward, and that can be the perfect opening conversation gambit, it always puts the couple at ease.
Good luck, relax and try to enjoy – each date, whether successful or not, is a learning experience.
I have traveled to Israel many, many times in the last few years. More times than not, they have weighed my carry-on, so get the LIGHTEST piece of luggage you can. I personally use a nylon tote bag that weighs next to nothing and schlep it myself. They also will let you carry a small pocketbook AND/OR a laptop bag or a backpack, provided it is not too large and does not look too heavy, otherwise they WILL weigh it and take it away.
Personally, I always wear a coat with huge pockets and put the heavy stuff I need on the plane, in my pockets.
Remember, there is now a second security check at the gate and you will have to re-open your carry on bags at that time.
However, I have often seen women carrying a shaitel box or a man carrying a hat box in addition to the normal carryon items, and they seem to get away with it.
Just a piece of information, if you want/need your carryon above your head, you need to board EARLY, since everyone has so much stuff, plus winter coats & hats now, that have to be stored, otherwise the stewardesses will put your luggage whereever there is room, and you could be the last one off the plane (a serious problem with connecting flights)
First of all, your parents are playing a very dangerous game, because if they keep this up, they will push you farther and farther away.
They have put alot of time and attention into raising you, and if they did a great job (and it sounds like they did) they need to start trusting your opinions, not agreeing with them, BUT recognizing them.
If you can, discuss this with someone YOUR PARENTS respect, and then have a meeting with the 4 of you, it is possible they will hear what you have to say and give you the room you need to grow.
I discovered, a long time ago, that a written letter works far better than a conversation. With a conversation, the people you are talking to are formulating their answer and NOT listening. With a letter, they will read it, get angry, hopefully, re-read it and give it some thought. THEN it is the time for conversation which will be far more productive.
You are growing up and your parents are afraid, they are afraid you are growing away from them. Which you are and which you should.
The boy you marry MUST be of your choosing not theirs. You know what you want, they know what they want for you, BUT, if you are ready to get married (when you are) you are ready to chose the derech you wish to live.
If intervention with a third party does not work, you will have to either go along with their choices, or make some hard choices of your own.
FFBBT613: Of course I wanted my future son in laws to have college degrees !! But what I wanted and what my girls wanted were two very different things. By the time my girls started dating, they were mature, thoughtful young women, who knew what they wanted in life, and perhaps more importantly, what they needed to live a fulfilling life.
On an intellectual level, they know what they would be giving up – the clothes, the vacations, even the magazines they loved to read, on an emotional level, they were ready to go foreward to attempt their dreams. I had to recognize that they were rational, clear-headed and very, very determined to live a life different from the life they grew up with.
I had nothing to say about the young men they dated – why would I? I would not be marrying them !! I did make some suggestions of what the girls should take notice of (have no idea if they paid attention or not)
I did have, what I considered, important criteria about their families. It was important to me that they be ba’alei chesed/Tzedaka, involved in their communities, with a reputation of being loving FIRM parents. That is the kind of home I wanted my future son in law to come from. There are exceptions, of course, some kids turn out extraordinary despite/because of the homes they grew up in, in any event, I was not confronted with such a scenario.
My husband and I are MO, college educated. Our daughters wanted the kollel lifestyle. We convinced them to get educated before marriage.
They are both married, with children supporting their husbands in learning without any parental support.
It is not an easy (financially) life, but a spiritually rewarding one. I cannot imagine how they would survive without the education that allows them to make a decent living.
Sorry, I disagree. Last year, my husband visiting Jerusalem, was stuck in Har Nof for 4 days, because the roads were not cleaned of snow AND there were abandoned cars across many, many roads.
Also, there were no food deliveries to Jerusalem for at least 4 days. The Israeli culture is to shop as you need, NEVER to stock up. We, in the US could live off our pantries and freezers for a couple of weeks, in Israel, most homes have food for a couple of days at most. Bread and milk are bought almost daily in Israel. So, if you were stuck in your home, and the local macolet and supermarket could not get deliveries (since the roads & highways were shut down for days) it would seem prudent to buy enough food thru Shabbos, especially since there might be two snow dates, both Wednesday afternoon/night and Friday/Shabbos
My daughters have not only bought enough food to last the week, they have also begun cooking for the week and Shabbos. Remember, some neighborhoods were without electricity/heat for days. One daughter lost electricity and heat for 4 days last year, and could not cook for Shabbos. Another daughter, had heat & electricity, but no food and had to scramble to borrow, just to make Shabbos. Last year EVERYONE had to make their own challahs for Shabbos, since the bakeries were shut down.
Even if the snow falls, stays and melts, then falls stays and melts again, the city would still be in a standstill for at least 3 days, with no food deliveries, school, work or transportation.
Better to be safe than sorry.
Sorry, but if the recipient has a “kosher phone” it has no texting capability.
Sorry, but you cannot spend someone else’ money. A set of Shas is VERY expensive and some in-laws just cannot afford it.
Regarding engagement rings, often the stone is CZ, for those parents who cannot afford the real thing, OR often, the stone (from the girls or guys family) is passed down and reset, again because diamonds are very very expensive.
It is important to have NO expectations regarding gifts. You are owed nothing beside love & respect.
I have been in the Goyish business world for many, many years. I have gone to goyish funerals and stood outside the door. (it showed my respect AND my religious beliefs)
I have gone to Goyish weddings, gone in, (so long as it was not in a church) said Congratulations, left my gift on the gift table and left.
There are ALWAYS two ways to handle these problems that pop up all the time.
1. NEVER, no matter what the situation, go in on an office gift. ALWAYS send your own gift, donation, etc. This way you have set a precedent and no one will ever be offended.
2. Sorry, I have a conflict is a much better answer than I can’t, I won’t, my religion won’t let me, etc. MAKE sure you DO have a conflict – even if it is to go out to dinner with your spouse so you are not lying.
Office politics is a very tricky situation and you want to avoid being the office PROBLEM, otherwise, it will impact your work, your workers co-operation and promotions.
It depends on what time the wedding is. You will need to pack up everything you will need for the wedding, shoes, jewelry, etc & a bag for that night. Sleep in late, relax, daven with kavanah.
Try to find time to something with your Mom & Sisters, get a manicure, pedicure.
It takes hours to get ready, hair, makeup, dress.
You will have your shomeret with you. She should be a close friend. Spend some time reminicing about your life. It is a life you will be leaving behind and will be building a new one.
As someone with daughters and someone who has fielded shidduch calls. A few points.
An adult should NEVER be calling a young adult for a “halachic verification” ONLY an educator or a Rav should receive such questions.
I also, always started such conversations with, I will answer all yes/no questions to be best of my ability, but anything that involves my opinion, my hashkafa is irrelevant. Such was the advice I got from a Rav when my children entered the Parsha.
Remember, anything open to interpretation, is JUST THAT – not fact.
All the logic in the world is irrelevant when your parents are reacting from an emotional viewpoint.
Your mother’s fear is real to her, it cannot be logically explained away. You need to ONLY address her fear.
Ask her what you can do (in Israel) to allay her fears. Should you suggest that you will not take public transportation, only taxis. Or, not leave your seminary if any Peguah’s have happened. Or vow to avoid the center of town and only go to shopping malls that have excellent security. Stay in after dark, avoid large crowds.
Whatever limitations she puts on you, as time goes on and “nothing” happens, she will then feel more comfortable with giving you more freedom.
I had two daughters in Seminary during the Intifadas and I can tell you, that as a parent, it was very frightening. My girls understood my fears and were very careful to follow the rules that gave me comfort.
Also, if G-d forbid something happens in Israel you MUST contact your parents ASAP and tell them where you are and why you are safe. That worked for me
Much Hatzlacha !!
Re: Sem613: We did the same thing. We visited every Sunday. Brought the kids over for a quick visit. We sent them notes the kids made, cute things to hang on the fridge.
We did this for 4 years. It had no impact. I am truly happy you were able to rebuild a relationship with your grandparents.
Unfortunately, until my children were young adults and suddenly became interesting to their grandparents, they had little or no contact with them. No hugs, no birthday calls, gifts, etc.
It broke my heart.
I lived the same situation and this is what I have learned. There is NEVER a good reason to favor (overtly) one child/grandchild over another.
There is NOTHING you can do to change the situation.
You cannot protect your child from hurt feelings (and trust me, as a parent, this is very, very painful). Allow your child to express his/her feelings to you, NOT the older generation. Their reaction will only be to strike back to your child, which will permanently damage your child’s self-esteem.
It is time you write a letter to your parents. It should be non-confrontational. It should only, factually list examples of neglect. ie: specific invites/turn-downs. little league games/turndowns, school events/turndowns, etc.
End the letter stating that your children have been hurt by such benign neglect and you would like them to be aware of what has happened.
You can end your letter with your love, for they are still your parents.
Make sure your son/children read the letter. They need to know that you see/understand their pain, acknowledge the disparity, and are stating “their” case to your parents.
It made no difference in my case, in the grandparents actions, BUT, it had an enormous impact on my children, knowing I knew, understood, and truly empathized with such a lop-sided relationship.
Before Rosh Ha’Shana is a wonderful time to share your family’s feelings with the rest of your family.
Good luck !!
I really did not research seminaries in the US for personal reasons. Most of our family lives in Israel and this was a way for our children to get to know their aunts, uncles & cousins.
FYI, ALL of our children came back to the US, completed their education and moved back to Israel.
They ALL live there now, permanently. Husbands, kids & all.
I had 3 daughters in different seminaries, ALL with excellent reputations, Morot, Ra’beim, Aim bayet, madrichot, etc.
I can tell you that if a young woman wants to, she can take incredible classes, make connections with the kind of women you want your daughter to emulate, and grow incredibly both in hashkafa and limud during that year away from home.
I can also tell you, that if a young woman is looking to party, sleep late and just “zone out” she can do that to.
It is entirely up to the young woman. So my only piece of advice is to really, really, know your daughter, her friends and what she does, NOT what she says.
I don’t understand parents today for a many reasons. First of all, if 30 parents cannot pay tuition than the teacher/rebbi will not be paid. Their tuition has to cover teachers, utilites, building upkeep etc. WHO is supposed to pay the teacher and who expects a teacher to work for free.
Secondly, in my childrens’ yeshiva, parents who could not afford full tuition were required to work for the school, either in the evening or weekends. Secretarial work, building maintenance, there were a myriad of jobs that could be done by parents, to free up funds to pay teachers.
It seems parents cry they cannot afford tuition (and I am sure there are many who truly cannot) BUT they simply cannot afford a free ride – someone has to pay for the faculty, building, insurance. What are they doing to raise funds? How are they suggesting the expenses be met? It is not an OUR problem, it is a THEIR problem.
FYI, fully 1/3 of my tuition (which I paid in full) when into the tuition assistance program. It angered me that I could not afford to take vacations, fix up my house and buy a new car because I was paying SOMEONE else’ tuition.
I was giving Tzedaka against my will. IS THAT A FAIR SOLUTION?
First of all, go onto the babiesrus web site. There you can down load a list of things you will need for a first child. THEN, go over the list with someone who has kids and they will tell you what is a waste and what is not.
Next go shopping with consumer reports. It will tell you which is the safest car seat, crib brand, etc.
Next, go into a large store and just look, try wheeling different strollers to see which fits your height, etc.
It MUST recline fully for a newborn.
Regarding passies, well, each child will like a different one, so when it is time, go into a store and buy several different ones and see which your baby will use. (it takes time, sometimes for the child to get used to one.)
I think a changing table is a lifesaver, you can dress, bathe your child, and underneath shelve your sheets, waterproof pads, clothes, diapers, etc.
A swing is a lifesaver !! So is the exersaucer when the child is around 5 months old.
The baby carriers are wonderful, BUT it has to be a perfect fit. Try them on ONLY after you have the baby, with the baby (bring your husband or Mom along)
Stack your sheets & waterproof pads on the crib so when the baby wets during the night, all you have to do is pull off the wet, and you will have a dry layer. (I and my daughters’ do 5 layers at a time.)
Do your research now, you can set up a baby registry in many stores so when someone asks you what you need, just refer them to your registry and you will get exactly what you want.
Mazal & Bracha !!
Sorry, but Michlalais for very, very serious girls who want to work on their hashkafa, with a very intensive academic program. Usually, Bais Yaacov girls do not go there tho.
Darchei Binah has a wonderful reputation for openness, BUT serious girls who are intent on working on themselves. the girls I know who came out of both schools are very frum, educated young women. (including my daughters)
Midreshed Ha’Rova is a great place for girls who have questions, BUT, I do not think their academic track is overly ambitious.
There are a lot of skills that one must have before one can be a successful student in graduate school/med/dental/law schools.
Being bright does not guarantee success.
One need be able to write, that means spell (spell check won’t work), how to write a topic sentence, how to structure a paper, how to research a topic, how to “source” a paper, etc.
This is not a skill that is taught in most yeshivas and is NOT easily self-taught.
One needs to know how to research any topic, how to judge/rate information sources, etc.
There are very few excuses that are accepted in graduate school. One needs to know how to prepare and deliver projects on time. Yontiff is not an acceptable excuse.
The “graduate world” is a goyish world,(even Touro) and one often works in assigned groups. One needs to know how to interact, relate, and work with people outside of your comfort zone. It is not an easy transition.
College, or some college will,at least, prepare you for some of the challenges you will face.
Being smart, working hard will not bring success, you will need specific SKILLS to succeed.
Often, courses given in college, ie: anatomy, are required for admission for OT, PT, PA, MD schools EVEN though you will have to repeat it on the graduate level.
I cannot imagine how large a disadvantage it would be, going into these demanding programs unprepared.
Re; Little Froggie
I honestly do not know how it works. FYI the hot water heater is in the basement of our house.
I just remember that we asked our Rov, and he told us which boiler to buy (I don’t remember his specific reasoning) or how the boiler circulates the hot water. I seem to remember that it works with pressure (from the sinks). I do know that the boiler does not turn on all Shabbos, without the incoming cold water, it does not turn on at all.
When we had a new hot water boiler installed, we had a cut-off valve put in the pipe that feed cold water into the tank. Before Shabbos, we turn off the valve, cutting off the cold water feed. We then use the hot water remaining in the tank until it runs out (usually by Shabbos afternoon – fyi we do not take showers on Shabbos)
It sure makes washing ourselves and the serving platters more pleasant !!
There are many rentals in Ramat Eshkol, right next to Sanhedria.
Look in the local pirsumit (ask your son to pick one up, they are all over the neighborhoods) or look in diradirect.com you can find a rental under $100. a night.
Have you been to the Churva shul yet? it was just rebuilt and open to the public.
Ir David or Migdal David are spectacular at night.
What about the Shul that looks like the Bais Hamikdash (forgot what it is called and also nearby.
If you want cheap eats, but local (most of the restaurants are under Rav Rubin’s hashgacha), go to Rechov Paran nearby. For a real treat for your son, take him to entrecot in har chotzvim (nearby) for a great meat meal – also under Rav Rubin – reservations necessary.
Big question, are you renting a car? If you only have one day with your son, without a car, the trip to Rechovot will take most of the day.
Regarding food, nearby is a fleishig Hadar Geula where you can do takeout for shabbos and any store sells paper goods for Shabbos.
Big question is how long are you going for.
I know when I visited my daughters in seminary, most of the day was spent with my daughter in her classes. It was wonderful for her and for me. I imagine learning with your son could be the highlight of your trip.
FYI, Egged has an english web site, so your can map the busses you will need to use/find BEFORE you go which will make life much easier
Have a wonderful trip.
It is terribly inappropriate to ask a newly wed to share her apartment.
Sorry, tell your cousin NO !!
Okay, let’s take a deep breath here. As a parent of a child who objected to MY school choice made for her, let me share how we reached an understanding.
First of all, you must think clearly about your objections in your current situation, WRITE A LIST, then think about what you feel your needs are that are not being met. WRITE A LIST.
You know your parents, you must have some understanding of the best way and time (timing is very important) to approach them.
Do not be confrontational, you are not accusatory, you are simply sharing. You are asking for their understanding and most importantly, you are asking for their help.
Start by saying that you are not as challenged as you want to be. That your spiritual growth is not at the pace you wish it to be. You need their help.
Now, share give them your lists and ask them to read and discuss them. When they have done so, ask them to call you back in so the three of you can discuss them.
Remember, you are not rejecting their values and lifestyle, you simply want to go deeper into the derech they have started you on.
You need their help (with either a transfer, or transportation or paying for an extra chavrusah, etc) and it sounds to me, that your parents have wonderful values and would want to help you achieve your own.
Sorry, but you are not doing it correctly. Unfortunately the weight of a shidduch lies upon the parent.
You must call a shadchan and tell them you are sending in your childs’ resume.
A few days after it was mailed, you MUST call the Shadchan and ask to go over the resume over the phone to answer any questions.
The Shadchan is inundated by resumes, and if you want yours to stand out, you need to follow up.
The suggestion (made by you) that the Shadchan meet your child personally, at their convenience is also a plus.
Putting a face to the resume, in person, will always put your child on the top of the list of appropriate shidduchim.
Been there, done that. (twice)
As an American, who has repeatedly lived thru snow storms, When I heard to weather forecast, I called my daughters in Israel on Tuesday and warned them. They did their shopping on Wednesday, did their laundry and cooked in advance.
they were ready, but even so, they lost power, at various times, lost their eruv and worried about power & heat on Shabbos. But they stayed home and stayed safe.
EVERYONE knew the storm was coming ! What fools left their errands for the night the storm was to start ?
Most Israeli’s I know, who are former Americans, did the same, parked their cars and hunkered down !!
I am a strong proponent of privacy. That said, there are many issues to take into account.
I will not use locks because of danger. I will use hooks & eyes (both inside and outside) for privacy sake. The child uses the hook when they do not want to be disturbed and also uses the hook on the outside (up high) to keep nosy or exploring toddlers from entering.
The problem comes up when children share a room, rules need to set up between the roomates on how/when to use the interior hook.
Knocking and then entering is unacceptable in my book. You have no right to enter JUST because you announced your presence. Often, knocking opens a poorly latched door, thus the need for the hook.
Teenagers are a whole other story. In my home, my children were required to leave their door open when they leave and could close them when home. They never locked the doors because we never, ever entered without verbal permission, even when we had to wait for them to answer. I believe locks are never needed (except for the parents room) if everyone is taught, from childhood, to respect privacy.
Also, the rule was no hooks in or out after bedtime.
My son-in-law was in TOMO for a couple of years. He is an intellectual learner, very frum who pays alot of attention to hashkafa, not just straight learning. If you are really really bright this yeshiva has an edge, and if you are not, this yeshiva will help you grow in learning AND medos. FYI, he then went on to Lakewood, but he is not a “Lakewood Bochur type.”
The very bright, very frum from MO families are very comfortable in KBY & Shalavim. The boys going there are very, very, serious about learning, learning on a high level and forming keshers with their Rabbeim and Ram. Many are “black and white” but the Israelis there are just as frum, just as serious about their learning but are Chardal.
Three boys I know well went to those yeshivas and came out even more committed to hashkafa and to learning.
My Israeli nephews went to Shalavim for HS, post high school and kollel. They are Chardal, very frum, very dedicated to learning and earning (they now have large families) the boys I have seen from Shalavim and KBY are the best of the “black hat – upper shiur YU boys” alot of them also end up in Touro and Baltimore, NOT Lakewood.
TOMO in Sanhedria MeUrchevet, Jerusalem
I live in a mixed neighborhood meaning people living paycheck to paycheck and people with alot of money.
I made sure my children understood, at a young age, constantly reinforced, that we/they can’t always have what we want. That mom and dad work very hard to take care of their family. Sometimes all my kids were able to go to sleep away camp all summer, sometimes they went for half a summer and often they stayed home, either in day camp,or working in one.
This sense of entitlement has got to stop !! Part of bringing up children is teaching them values. They need to understand family finances, not the dollar and cents, but the structure, the order of importance. First tuition, then mortgage, then food and insurance and then everything else !! Take them food shopping, show them the bill, have them figure out the yearly cost. Show them the tuition bill, let them know and understand how hard you work to take care of them.
You should feel no guilt in “depriving” them of an experience that they desire. You are the parent, you know what is right, you know what your budget can afford. Be matter of fact, not confrontational, not defensive, but educate.
Unless you want to end up with a young adult who has no coping mechanisms when they can’t have what they want. Better they learn it in a loving safe environment, then out in the cold world when they are starting their own families !!October 23, 2013 12:14 am at 12:14 am in reply to: Question for the nashim tzidkaniyos of the Coffee Room #983267
Sorry, I hate the “black” frum look. I almost never wear black, I like colors, purple, blue, green, etc.
Just had a thought, what about a beautiful piece of artwork showing the brocha for lechtbenching? It will always hang in your home and she will always think of you when she uses it.
This first gift from husband to wife will never be forgotten. It should be something she will always use and will never forget. It must be something personal.
Being a tomboy does not mean she does not like “girly” things.Does she wear jewelry now? What kind? earrings or a bracelet Now is the time to ask her what were some of her favorite gifts she got in the past. That will point you in the right direction
.Perhaps a new siddur or a set of machzerim. MOST important is the inscription. Your first really, really, personal message from husband to wife.
Most young women will ALWAYS treasure the first gift their husbands give her !!
you sound so young and so conflicted. I can tell you, that as a parent, I must allow my adult children to make their own choices, not approving them, but accepting them.
It is a hard place to be as a parent, but if you love your children, if you admire the person he/she has become, then you must accept their lifestyle choice, even when it conflicts with your own beliefs.
It is very important to keep in mind, that at all times, you must be respectful of the values your parents hold onto. Do not expect them to reciprocate, at the beginning. They probably never will, because we, as parents, always assume we are “right”. At the same time, the love, affection and that we feel for our children should always outweigh our personal disappointments we may feel in a child’s choice of lifestyle.
You must make it very clear, that your choices are your own, made independently of the home you were brought up in, independent of the home dynamics and independent of the inter-family relationships you were brought up in and with.
Only then, can your parents be accepting, without blame and without guilt, which is very necessary for you and them to maintain a relationship.
I wish you much luck. It will take time. It will be painful, but you will get through it.
Okay guys, he wants advice, not a judgement call of his lifestyle.
Now, going off the derech will be painful news to your parents no matter when you tell them. Young people often go off the derech, following a path that is attractive to them at that time.
You need to answer (to yourself) are you rejecting the PRACTICE of religion or do you truly not believe in G-D.
Will your parents will be visiting you in the near future? In which case they will see your “lack” of observance.
If not, you need to share with your parents, who love you very much, your doubts about the lifestyle you are choosing to leave, at this time. I strongly suggest that you do not shut doors behind you at this time. You need to tell your parents, but parents are usually quite intuitive when it comes to their children. I am sure they have “picked up” clues about your behavior and beliefs. It is up to you to share your ideas, ideals, doubts with them. DO NOT turn it into a shouting match, do not make it you vs. them. The conversation will be painful on both sides, but you need to start a dialogue with them as soon as possible.
To me you sound like “top tier YU Yeshivish”. Many, not all, are very, very serious about learning and hashkafa, as you are. Some are also very serious about simultaneously achieving an academic-based career. Generally these young men learn all AM until about 3 PM and then first pursue their secular studies.
Yeshivish usually excludes secular education until a much, much later time.
It seems to me that the kind of young woman you are looking for is more of a michlalah/Stern woman who is very strong in her hashkafah, pursuing a career to either help with finances, or to support a husband for some years and have a truly torah-dik home.
These women want men who learn and will always learn, at least part time.
I am speaking from personal experience. I have both the Stern graduate daughter(s) and the YU top-tier son-in-laws WITH black hats who have a university education as well. I have one son-in-law that I consider a truly black-hat mindset and another son-in-law that is also very, very frum, who is still learning full time, BUT also with a “rational-intellectual understanding” approach to his learning.
My daughter once explained HER interpretation of Tznius which I think truly hits the nail on the head.
She said ” Mommy, it is not the length of your skirt or the length of your sleeves or whether your collarbone is covered, or the color of your suit,your stockings or the style of your shaitel. It is an issue of perception.
If you dress in a way that draws attention (from men, and even other women) whether because your clothes are tight, too short, too bright or too striking that is not tzniusdick.
A woman should dress in a manner that is pleasing and balibatish, BUT if she draws attention, THAT is NOT tznius.”
I think she nailed it in one.
Whenever I purchased anything my husband felt was untznius, he would say to me. Oh Honey, that is stunning, but I hope you will wear it ONLY for me. I got the message loud and clear.
I work for an executive search firm, so I have a few pointers that will work in your favor.
1. Your old boss will ALWAYS be called as a reference. Therefore, you need to leave on good terms; ie: ALWAYS thank your boss for the opportunity he gave you; ALWAYS tell your boss you are leaving for an opportunity with greater responsibility; ALWAYS ask your boss if he would like you to be available to speak with your replacement, for pointers, after you have left, etc. In other words, ALWAYS keep the door open after you leave, so your former boss maintains a good feeling about you. (remember the future references)
2. It is ALWAYS easier to get a new job, when you already have one. Employees want an employer that is working and competent at his job. New employees always want to hear about (during job interviews); the desire for additional responsibility; the desire to advance; the desire to learn, etc.
3. NEVER, ever complain about your former boss to anyone in the work field, news always travels backwards.
4. When you give notice, be prepared to empty your desk/rolordex, etc and be asked to leave immedietly, so if there is anything you wish to take with your, take it home before you give notice. (and be very careful not to take anything that is “propriety” to your old bosses business.) You can, and will be sued, if you take his list of clients and contact them after you leave.
5. Do not tell anyone in your workplace you are planning to leave, before you tell your boss.
6. If need be, call your boss and MAKE AN APPOINTMENT with him, to terminate your employment. Then follow up with a letter/email reiterating the conversation, peppering it with thanks for the opportunity to work for you, for the lessons, skills, learned, etc.
Please don’t knock the “modern Orthodox schools” My girls attended a HS on Long Island that is labeled Modern Orthodox.
The school dress code was ankle length skirts – NO EXCUSES. ALL the girls wore long skirts, no slits, no buttons, etc.
I think a problem stems from being a “Kallah Maidel” When I was in HS in Brooklyn, during the 60’s and the mini skirt era, we all dressed Tzniusdically UNTIL we turned 16. Once we became old enough to be “looked over”, our Moms dressed us fashionably with make-up and heels. And the problems began. This is not a NEW problem, this is a fashion problem !!
The girls on Long Island are NEVER told to dress up when they go to school, they are told to dress down. And while the look is somewhat sloppy, ie: long schleppy skirts with oversized sweatshirts, as mothers, we are happy with the look and the LACK of focus on fashion !!