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Candy for singing the loudest
I am confused:
Is a parents are divorced as well as most of her immediate family. Plus other issues “Second Rate”?
If she marries someone like herself, then she will get whatever she thinks of herself.
anon1m0us: Except where it is most populated (India & China).
Isn’t the mitzvah of tzitzis to PUT string on OUR 4 corner garment?
The short answer is no. Tzitzis is not a Chovas Beged.
anon1m0us:
Except that frum jews don’t use abortion as a means of gender selection.
(not disagreeing with the main point)
To the best of my knowledge, neither is Assur, as women don’t have the same issurim in that area as men (i.e. – no Histaklus). Ask your LOR for actual halacha.
There’s a metaphysical benefit to learning which can’t be factored that way.
Exactly why the Roshei Yeshiva tell people to stay in learning.
The answer I think I once heard to this is that in truth even these type of commandments are in essence rooted in the Torah’s definitive moral code.
Totally not. The Brisker Rov (and the Shagas Aryeh, IIRC) bring that the Torah is an override of “moral” code, and the general good of society. The examples given is lending with interest, which is good for the economy, and Assisted suicide. Both may be allowed in Noahide law (IIRC), but not in Torah law. The Brisker Rov explains (and I don’t remember where) that Noahide law is meant to create a “moral” society, while Torah law is following the will of Hashem over what you would think is the right thing to do.
A R”Y signing in favor of the ideas of NASI is agreeing to the societal benefit, but not necessarily that it’s to the benefit of a particular individual.
That is exacly what I have said previously regarding going to work vs. staying in learning.
WolfishMusings:
Aren’t Orthodox Jews and Ferengi two of a kind?
So there are Extraterrestrials in Judaism.
minyan gal: A critical point that you are not considering is that many of these people looking to get married have no interest in ever supporting themselves. Their end plan is support from government, Shver and their community (in the form of tuition assistance). It make it much easier for a boy to want to sit and learn when that is the plan.
Nice just means something above zero, but still low enough to qualify for government health benefits and tuition discounts. These mothers don’t want their sons marrying doctor/lawyer types, who will be able to support their family.
Max and Minas (do they still have CY? I haven’t been there for years).
Otherwise I’ll take whatever the store has, and consider myself lucky to have found some.
My wife has a few friends that aren’t married. I think these girls are very special. Each of them has conquered a tremendous amount of adversity and has come out with sparkling personalities. I’m honestly very surprised that they have been having so much trouble. The only reason I can think of is that there are so few guys who are equally as special.
I doubt that. They probably are picky!
It is much easier to be a special girl than a special guy. That being said, if they want to get married, they probably are being too picky, or it just won’t happen.
The gemarah states; “tinuk v’kar imoi” meaning with every additional child comes an additional source of income.
Which B’Davka doesn’t include tuition, according to my rov. the Chiyuv of Limud to your child is not included in “tinuk v’kar imoi” (or whatever the lashon is). Food would be included, though.
yid_pashut:
With the shidduch crisis on, sell yourself to the highest bidder. Learn in Lakewood so that your shver has an excuse to support you.
Klal Yisroel will ask Hakodosh Boruch Hu after all the tzar we have been through in Golus
May G-d bless the Tzar, and keep him…. Far away from us!
(From Fiddler on the Roof)
BS”D:
Assuming the question is of an “Adult” nature (as the MPAA would put it), the gemora already states that one may lie in regards to these items. However, realize you may be better off explaining things when younger, so that the information becomes normal before it becomes Ta’avadik.
E.
Imagine if such a couple lives on your block and your child will come home and ask you, look what a nice loving family why is it wrong?To say that the Torah forbids it when your child might see that they seem very happy is a very hard lesson.
Imagine if a cheeseburger eater lives on your block and your child will come home and ask you, look what a nice looking cheeseburger why is it wrong? To say that the Torah forbids it when your child might see that they seem very happy is a very hard lesson.
As per the OP, is Hedonisim immoral? Perhaps not, especially without any oncept of morality (which is intrinsic to Hedonism).
The Rambam on the topic (IB 21:8-9):
? ???? ???????? ?? ???–????, ?????? ?????? ??? ???????? ????: ????? “????? ??? ?????? . . . ?? ????” (????? ??,?); ????? ?????, ?? ??? ?????–??? ???? ???, ????? ????? ????, ????? ????? ???? ?????.
? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ????, ??? ????? ????–???? ?? ??? ?????, ???? ??? ?? ???? ???; ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????, ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???–???? ??? ????. ????? ?????? ??? ?????, ????? ???? ?????. ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??, ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????
It would seem that the Rambam has issue with the actual status and not the act itself? What does the Olam think?
This thread made me laugh.
Thank you Popa.
GAW – “want to have a family should pair up (as friends of course,”
I don’t think this would be Mutter. Do you have any Rabbi/Rov that holds this way?
That was an angle I was not thinking about. There might be Morris Ayin? The whole issur (for girls) probably (as per the Rambam) isn’t even a D’Rabannan, so that would not be an issue.
If that was not your angle, please tell me why you think it would be assur.
I dont see myself ever going that route as no one is really honest at all through that process.
We had another poster here this week who said the exact same thing somewhere in this thread.
Many attempts were made for the Kallah. How would you proceed?
gregaaron@: which one? The endgame, or the suggestion?
This issue hits very close to home for me as I just turned 28 2 days ago and having been married and divorced already
I’m sorry to hear that, even if it was for the best.
Usually someone who can’t do Yibum Paters from Chalitza. EX is a daughter who married her uncle.
In this case, it is only an Aseh that blocks him, so he is allowed to do it.
Just because I could have done it myself doesn’t mean that it’s not mesirah if I call the cops to do it.
Not true. The cops can be your shaliach if you can do it yourself, and we say Yesh Shliach Lechumra, and the ticket (based on NYC budget cuts) is only a means to pay for the work done.
No Rov might allow her to marry someone who doesn’t keep taharas hamishpacha.
Correct. That is why there are levels.
cleverjewishpun: Thanks.
P.S. what is with the @Gavra thing (not just you). Shouldn’t it be Gavra@?
Yes. So is every other group.
I have a MOreh Heter.
The din is Avid Inish Dina D’Nafshei B’Makom P’saidah. As such, you are within your rights to break into the car and rip out the battery, thereby stopping the alarm. By using a proxy, you saved the owner money (even with a ticket), and are not Chayiv.
See, easy fix.
I really, really hope you’re joking.
I really, really wish I was joking.
About what?
gavra: As bad as it is, telling the girls to marry someone not frum is not an option.
I don’t disagree with you (a Rov might, though), which is why I said “maybe even”. None the less, that is a choice, and “frum” is a matter of degree that the girl might decide she can live with.
correction: It is not hopeless, but you may have to give up your dream, whether it is a learning boy or someone who is Kovah Itim (or maybe even someone frum). Either way, it is a choice.
????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?”? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?????
Guys are not like that.
In the eyes of the Torah, is marrying a Jew, even a drastically less religious Jew, or a totally secular Jew, better than staying single, or vice versa? If anyone is aware of any Gedolim’s thoughts on this, please share.
I think this is at least part the problem. Too many boys are disillusioned with shidduchim, the Klal, Tuition, and others, so that even if they are “frum”, the Bais Ya’akov girls don’t want to date them.
They don’t want to date Bais Ya’akov girls either. They have no interest in someone telling them they have to go to shiur, pay tuition, etc. And why should they? They would rather be single than have a nagging wife that will probably lead to divorce.
shein: She may have a better chance and/or feel more comfortable convincing her parents than teachers. School is meant to be regimented, and when there is an exception, everyone else asks for one as well.
Sounds like a good idea to me. Ain Apitrupos L’Arayos.
Everyones shidduch was created 40 days before yitziras havlad.
Rav Moshe Shternbuch had an interesting and Halachic piece regarding this in last week’s Yated. It is not that simple.
IMHO (and the mods can decide not to print it, if they desire), girls who feel they have no chance of getting married and want to have a family should pair up (as friends of course, but the law may allow for further legal ability) and adopt children, of which there is a need. They can then raise their Yiddish family.
but that is not nogeia really to the discussion at hand of how to help this worthy Bas Yisroel with a serious problem.
IMHO, this girl with so much Kedusha in her should be homeschooled, so that she can work on her own path to Hashem (as she seems capable of doing) and maybe even just Daven all day. Being in school just holds her back and opens her up to influences from schoolmates, as well as teachers that will insist on their own derech (as we see happening).
Eliyahu is part of the Mesorah (IIRC, from Achiya?) and has real S’micha (and will relink the chain). As such, he is everyone’s Rebbe, and everyone will listen to his P’sak, when he comes in the flesh. That is the whole concept of Taiku.
???? ?? ????? ??? would apply to a Malach, not to a person, and certainly not to someone who was Mekabel the Torah as part of the Mesorah.
it is subjective, it is not subject to a standardized guideline, that is not the way to proceed. but that doesnt mean nothing can be done.
As I said before, agreed. Shmiras Halashon though is easier because there are Halachos that can be learned.
because all the chickens are crossing the roads to escape from the shochet
They are right to run. Bava Metzia 85a:
?”? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????
Why do Flatbush people (between OP and Coney, and the E.20’s specifically) not walk in their neighborhoods after dark?
OK, I give. Why? What is the punchline?
Mr. 80: I agree with you 100%. But I am also seeing skirts that end on or just above the knee recently. Maybe it is a style thing (which I know nothing about).
As far as the “attracting attention” of the clothing (ends with a “y”), it is subjective, and we have had many discussions here regarding that too. The local schools discuss it as well. A standardized guideline however, will also be subjective, and those who don’t like it will not follow or denounce it. Sensitivity (which is what is being taught now) is the key in this issue IMHO.
shein:
I hate to say it, but I think the “powers that be” would be against it for two reasons (although I personally think it is a good idea)
1: The idea of having mass Tznius rallies and the sort is inherently not Tzanuah.
2: (and more critically) The definition of Tznius is much more vague than Lashon Hara. You will have to reach to actual Halacha (knees, elbows, neck) with none of the extras (stockings, etc.). The Chasidim etc. that are more Makpid will not sign on, nor will the Bais Yaakovs that have been preaching a more stringent dress code.
But yes, the situation is not good. Perhaps it would be better for the Klal to admit the extras are just that and strengthen the actual halachos, which I have seen that observance has gone way down over the past couple of years.
Hatzlacha!
BS”D
DDD regarding taxes is brought in the Gemorah Bava Kama 113A:
??????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????
Note this was in Persia circa 1800 years ago, where there were specific exceptions (for example, where the members of certain religions had to pay certain taxes and others did not, Jews were allowed to “obscure the truth” in order to get out of those specific taxes). None the less, regular taxes were the responsibility of everyone (Talmidei Chachamim may have been an exception, see first perek Bava Basra).
I wasn’t going to respond, but see that he is both serious and ignorant, looking for excuses to mattir his current behavior, as well as letting his own negius/hatred regarding/because of his specific judicial case block his logic. Ka’as is one the worst middos to have:.
From the Gemorah Nedarim 22A:
??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ????? (????? ??) ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? (???? ??) ?? ??? ?’ ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????????? ?????? ?? ????? (????? ??) ???? ?’ ?? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????????
As others said, when your own Rov agrees with you, have him tell us so. Otherwise, you are just talking out of frustration and anger, not Halacha. In the meantime, I wish you a Refuah Shelaima.
P.S. This is not an invitation to have a discussion, just like I would not have a discussion with a crazy missionary to decide that maybe he is correct. This is just a statement of fact. Get your Rov to agree with you (and publish it), and then I will reconsider.
Of Course:
Seems like the parent is having a hard time financially, probably after taking a loan for the wedding and getting no Hakoras Hatov from the children (and not even offering to give the wedding presents to the parents). I would let it slide.
DY: J&W agrees that the money is owed. Then I am not arguing that you aren’t owed money. I am just saying you are going to have a hard time collecting since you didn’t make any agreements before hand.
That is similar to my argument before, which Rav Moshe seems to agree with. However, Rav Moshe in that teshuva seems to indicate that what is owed is the lowest common denomiator. Perhaps (maybe even probably) in a Din Torah “Of Course” could collect 100$, which he? agrees is acceptable in some cases.
I think what is bothering the OP is more the lack of Hakoras Hatov from the parents than the loss of actual money.
DY: I Hope so 🙂
Mr. 80: I would put it in the negative: the way NOT to educate a frum child is by sending him/her to a public school.
Homeschooling by choice is something that has been posted many times here on the CR.
It is unheard of for a child to be forced into public school because of genuine inability to pay.
Unless the Hanhala decides it is not genuine, and the parent feels that it is. BH in my community I don’t see it, but I can’t speak for other areas. Shein is right. Why doesn’t the community there step up?
And yes, there is no good solution for the problem.
Sorry for getting off topic.
Yes, Tov li Toras picha mei’alfei zahav vakesef… not just a song – a way of life.
Blessed is the community that does not charge too much for tuition. However, in the case where the parents literally can not pay what is required (or they will lose their home, for example), the responsibility is on the Hanhala for charging what they did, not the parents for not lying and saying they will pay when they knew they could not.
See ??”? ?”? ??? ?’ ??’ ?’?.
Rav Moshe does compare Shaddchanus to S’chirus. Perhaps your S’vora of “even when family friends make a shidduch just as a chessed (which doesn’t seem to be the case here), shadchanus is expected, albeit maybe on a different scale” applies to make it a “Sadeh H’Asuya Litah”.
Hadri Bi.