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simple, They realized they were wrong.
The question is on those woh repeat the same anti-zionist arguments from 70+ years ago. How do they stick to such a bizzare shitah that is clearly been proven wrong
Rebbetzin
“they only don’t do so very PUBLICLY, ”
Lol
why not? Is one of the sheva mitzvos not to eat human meat publicly? which one?You say “the “30 mitzvos” are what the goyim “took upon themselves” and are not from HKBH.”
who are they from? Are they being praised for it or is at waste of their time? Is the fact that the ydont sell human meat publicly a good thing, or is it a pointless deprivation of a delicious source of protein? (or as you described it “ok”)The second mitzvah listed there is “. ואחת שאין שוקלין בשר המת במקולין”
Too bad they didint know the Rebbetzin’s psak that human meat is “ok” to eat
one that comes to mind, is the Rosh brought in Mechaber by netilas yedayim leseudah that the most choshuv should go last
rebyid that is a different version
The Wikipedia page on “echad mi yodea” has both
““pure am haaratzos”: is there pure and impure am haaratzos?”
Yes some times it is adulterated with a bit of lomdus, not in this case.
“because I never encountered “pure” am haaratzus, ”
Wait no longer:
“The Rashba and the Ritvah opine,like the Ramban, that it is permitted to eat human meat.”That line was pure am haaratzos they do not hold it is permitted to eat human meat.
“I’m waiting for Ubiq to reply. If he doesn’t, then I will.”
I’m not sure what i am supposed to reply to.Kluger yid addressed a question to me , but It should be addressed to the rebetzin. It is similar to the question I asked 4 times that has yet to be answered
Here it is for the 5th time ” “A goy being meanes an unmarried woman. Are you ok with that too?””as to your silly last comment , youve lost the train of conversation, let me sort you ut a bit
you said “You mix up d’oraysa (which they hold there is no issur min haTorah) with d’rabbonon. You also mix up the d’rabbonon for a Jew with a goy” No I mixed up no such thing, and no, and no rishon holds eating human meat is “permitted”We are not discussing if their is a technical issur and whether it is deoryasa or derababon. The question is if it is “ok” You said that as long as there isnt a technical issur then it was automatically ok.
THIs is what we are now discussing, this led me to my question here it is again: “A goy being meanes an unmarried woman. Are you ok with that too?”
while you are at it, you can answer Kluger yid’s question too, specifically is it “ok” “Jew who is meanes a divorced Jewess”?tzvai lichois fin sapir shtein, geshriben hut zei, der aibeshter alaein
drei uvois zenen bei inz du, Avruhum Yitzchak Yaakoiv zichroimum livrachu
fir imahos zenen bei inz du, Suru Rivka Ruchul in Laiuh
Finef zenen di chimishim, Bereishis shemois vayikra bamidbar devurim
zexs zene di mishnayoid zrooim moiaid nushim nezikin kudshim taharosJoseph
“ubiq: Milhouse and I have refuted your point in the other thread.”Lol no you haven’t. It isnt “my point” it is how the sale is typically organized, as several posters over the years have explained.
You didnt “refute” anything you just repeated the same misinformation year after year.
Millhouse claims his rav does it differently. assuming he remembers correctly. His is an exception, as that is not typically how done.As to a safek jew is likely a safek derabanan.
If he died after pesach, is in coma or ran away you dont have any problem as has been explained to Joseph year after year in the “buying chometz back” thread.
If he dies during pesach that might be a problem, though again not an insurmountable one. T is likely comparable to Joseph’s subscribe and save which is a beferish din as to what to do. Though I’m not sure about the land sold to the guy which contains hefker chometz
“What is the status of all the chometz that was never sold?”
Remains muttar, as this is an onus gamar.
” Do I have a chiyuv to worry that maybe the rov will mess up on the mechira. Similar to a Kohen Gadol that we prepare a back up for his avoda on Yom Kippur?”
No
I always mean Kuvid Kedishas R’ Simcha beenim Honigkvetcher shlita the Farikter Rebbe
ccb45
“If the cat is busy with the mouse, you dog why get involved? So: the dog was wrong, the stick was right,”
I’ve heard that story, but I don’t understand it.
If you say anybody getting involved in another dispute is wrong then the dog , fire ,water , cow , shochet ,t, malach hamoves , and HKB”H are all “wrong,” “why get involved”??Millhouse overseen it too and checked with a few rabbonim.
All said there was no “buying back”I can only guess different rabbonim have different procedures?
Though how dies your fav ensure that all sellers want their chametz back? What if Joseph sold with your rav and doesn’t want it back?
NC
Your first statement : “He gives you a down payment and then you repossess it when he fails to pay the full amount after Pesach. ” was spot on.
I believe there is a typo in your second though “The concept of the goy saying “I’m keeping the chometz” is basically a fantasy dreamt up by people who don’t understand how it works.”
As you correctly point out i your first statement if the goy were to pay the full amount after PEsach he would get to keep the chometz.
The “fantasy dreamt up by people who don’t understand how it works. is the reverse “thinking of not buying the chometz back from the goy” which as you correctly point out is hogwash, as thee is no “buying back”Milhouse
To elaborate/ clarify, metaltalin are not acquired by kesef. If you go to a store, and but a loaf of bread on credit, it is yours 100%. Say it gets stolen from your car, it is your bread that was stolen bot the store owners you still owe him money.
If you default and never pay him, that diesnt change the fact that you still own it and owe him money (or the bread back).
Now usually a sale of bread is not structured in a way to allow giving the bread back. But mechiras chometz (like a mortgage on a house) is. The guy bought it it is 100% is completely no its and or buts.
After pesach je either pays what he owes, or gives HIS chometz backmillhous
“but if you structure the sale so that if the buyer doesn’t pay it reverts then retroactively you owned chometz on Pesach”
Incorrct, as has been explaind svral tims over several years in this thread
“That is the way every sale I’ve witnessed has been done”
Have a look at sample contracts, for example printed in kitzur.
“He has to pay up, and we can absolutely sue him for it.”
This seems addressed to me, but i explicitly said that already “Yes, and there is no question he halachicly owes me the money, and while I’m no lawyer I believe legally as well, exactly as you say.” So I’m not sure why you are repeating that.
You comment about Arav kablan, is EXACTLY to alleviate my concern, but its use is controversial and most (chabad being a notable exception do not use on)
Joseph
If anybody was thinking that, they’d be embarrassed to say that here since they’d be putting their ignorance on display“Somewhere in the discussion you missed that ”
nope I missed no such thing. you said that if something is not strictly assur the it was automatically ok . and that to suggest otherwise was saying “that the Torah “missed” some moral guidelines and prohibitions that we (laymen – not Rabbonon) need to add”
“eating human meat (which many Rishonim and poskim say is muttar).”
source please.” is there a daas Torah that says a Goy needs to work on his middos”
Um yes. I dont have the exact mareh makom off hand, but there is a medrash how in sedom they would all steal less than a shava peruta so that none of them technically “stole” The point of this is how bad they were. I guess you understand that as hey that was a pretty clever work around . (I dont recall the source of hand, and I’m not sure how it fits with the fact that even less than a shiur is assur for a goy ) I also recall how they are praised for cutting off feet to fit in bed very smart tactics.
“are you asking if GOY must act lifnei meshuras hadin or if a GOY has the mitzva assay of Kedoshim Tihyou?”
nope didnot ask that.
I DID ask : “A goy being meanes an unmarried woman. Are you ok with that too?”
(for the 4th time know) You have this habit of ignoring questions that disprove your silly theory, I noticed that you didn’t answer I’m not sure why you think ignoring them makes them go away“What you wrote simply does not conform with real Das Torah.”
Ah but I spoke to super daas torah which trumps das Torah.“The Rashba and the Ritvah opine,like the Ramban, that it is permitted to eat human meat.”
Yeah um this is pure am haaratzos, since without question it is assur for a Jew to have haanah from a mes. So no they do not hold it is permitted to eat human meat. Though they do hold it isnt included in a specific issur.
“What do you mean “A goy being meanes an unmarried woman”?’
I mean to force her to have relations with him. As best I can tell it doesn’t violate any of the sheva mitzvos, I guess you say that is ok. correct? (technically it doesnt violate a strict issur for a JEw either though you have more cop outs like Vehavta lereacha, or lo sasuru So I won’t ask you about a Jew being מאנס another one, plus i’m afraid to hear your answer)
“Do you think that the Torah “missed” some moral guidelines and prohibitions that we (laymen – not Rabbonon) need to add?! ”
I’m not sure what you mean. Have you never heard of lifeni meshuras hadin? kedoshim tiyhu?
Just because something is technically not an issur doesnt automatically make it proper.
Are you not fammiliar with chazal that say We would no murder is wrong even without it being assur ?
Would you not know? Did chazal think if murder wasn’t an issur then “the Torah “missed” some moral guidelines and prohibitions “?And anyway I asked Daas Torah, they said “Goyim really shouldn’t be eating other goyim its bad middos” So there now do you think cannibalism is immoral?
“but if one needs a psak I will always opt for asking a Rov, not the CR.”
Yes that goes without saying.
Joseph isn’t looking for a psak. The story isn’t real, it Pesach is still a few days away. It is just an interesting discussion .
That said, this discussion isn’t particularly interesting (to me) as it seems to be a befeirish mechaber and MB
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14165&st=&pgnum=56484:2 MB 4-5
Metaltelin are not aquired by kesef so the fact that it was paid for is irrelevant (even assuming credit card counts as “kesef”)
“Therefore there is nothing wrong for a goy to eat another goy,”
Got it. thanks. So Jeffery Dahmer was no worse than any other serial murderer.
On to the next since I’m curious how warped your morall compass is:
A goy being meanes an unmarried woman.
“why in Heaven’s name would you think there is anything wrong with a goy eating human flesh?!”
Becasue some things are obviously wrong. As you acknwoedge (even in your trolling, you cant go full troll) You stuck in a caveat ” (In circumstances that meat and other food is scarce). ” Why did you stick that in?
Like murder which chazal tell us we (not you) would know was wrong even without a mitzvah..
Though lets kee pgoing with this,
A goy being meanes an unmarried woman. Are you ok with that too?“this is a question for a Rov not the CR.”
why can’t this be discussed in the coffeeroom?
rebetzin
“The only reason we don’t eat human flesh is because it is ossur.”
Just so that I understand you correctly, you believe there is “nothing wrong” with a goy eating (an already dead) person?
“the same “shayla ” if you buy a box of Rice Crispies cereal ”
no it isnt the same shylah as Ive pointed out to you.
for the third time: CAN a person eat all 61 lbs (you correctly pointed out that by davar yavesh he cannot) in your case if you so choose can you eat it all at once?
why can’t a feminine noun in Hebrew be a boy’s name?
I read the question quickly I thought he wasn’t observant.
If he was Jewish but not shomer Shabbos, can he drink non- mevushal wine?
(R’ Bleich had a article on this in tradition a few years back)
In every job that must be done
There is an element of fun
You find the fun and snap!
The job’s a gameAnd every task you undertake
Becomes a piece of cake
A lark! A spree! It’s very clear to see thatA Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
The medicine go down-wown
The medicine go down
Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
In a most delightful wayA robin feathering his nest
Has very little time to rest
While gathering his bits of twine and twig
Though quite intent in his pursuit
He has a merry tune to toot
He knows a song will move the job along – forA spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
The medicine go down-wown
The medicine go down
Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
In a most delightful wayThe honey bee that fetch the nectar
From the flowers to the comb
Never tire of ever buzzing to and fro
Because they take a little nip
From every flower that they sip
And hence (And hence),
They find (They find)
Their task is not a grind.Ah-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h ah!
A Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
The medicine go down-wown
The medicine go down
Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
In a most delightful way“Is it now OK to shop for a Psak if you want to be “more frum” ?”
you mean less frum
Easy
wear the jacket on your legs and the pants on your arms.
This way nobody will comment on the color
Rebitzen
“a) this isn’t really a case of davar yovesh;”
Correct, It isnt at all, as I said.
“; (b) we are not dealing with one person eating all the 61 lbs of meat (at one sitting) ”
you arent, i’m asking you CAN a person eat all 61 lbs (you correctly pointed out that by davar yavesh he cannot) in your case if you so choose can you eat it all at once?
” (but some CR posters like Meno and ubiquiten think I don’t need to return – which is incorrect but I love them!).”
I said it as a tzad, though I am leanig that way.
You obviously don’t have to return kosher meat, that makes no sense whatsoever I don’t even hear the sevara that you would have to. You might have to return treif meat, but if it was lost by your friend, and it doesn’t exist anymore I’m not sure why you have to pay him back for her clumsinessWere you allowed to give them wine? why wasn’t it lifnei iver?
When he touches/pours it it becomes yayin nesech and is assur for him to drinkis Rebbitzen Mrs. Joseph?
Rebbetzin
” Think about it – if I have a mountain of quarters and you drop your quarter into them, do you lose it ”
Are quarters batul?
Can one person eat all 60 pounds (or ml to make it more plausible) in one bite? Arent they eating a pound (or ml) of treif? by davar yavesh we hold lehalacha one person cant eat all three items is that the din here.
If not, why not?Meno
+1Thats what I was trying to say
Of all your silly trolliy posts this was the worst
I’ll be honest, I enjoyed the others while your comments were obviosuly silly, they still made me stop and think .
but this self righteous defense of being mean to stop the bashing of others is just annoying trolling
There is a third tzad: that you owe her nothing .
she dropped the meat into your pot the meat she dropped is gone, batul it doesnt exist anymore .
why would you have to pay her back with other meat? If she dropped it on the floor would you have to pay her back?
In fact if you had 59 pounds in your pot, she might have to pay you for ruining your meat !true you gain a bit from her clumsiness but so what?
Rebetzin
“The concept of keli rishon, sheini, shlishi is a law in cooking: bishul, to acheive COOKING … To transfer flavours of meat/milk or issur you don’t need to cook the ingredients together”Not quite
see http://hb.borisute.com/tursa.aspx?a=yd_x4307
Although we are machmir lekatchila, it is wrong to say that kli sheini vs kli rishon isnt relevant to transfer of taam
Regarding the Chasam sofer, you are right I do recall it explained that it is only when the bird subsequently dies, but a. I’m not sure why that would be and b. From the last line isnt mashma that way ” דגם בחיותו אוסר כנ”ל ”
I had jotted down mareh mekomos which I will hunt down over shabbos bl”n
chasam Sofer YD 94
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1839&pgnum=70
The case of the butter is the end of the teshuva and there the bird died so it doesnt have much bearing on this discussion but in the first paragraph brings from Pri megadim that live things arent maflit/ubolea.
(Technically he only says bolea)
“would the water used to boil live lobster be kosher ”
Yes if it remained alive
I think this is mentioned in a teshuva of the Chasam Sofer regarding the case of the bird that flew into the butter that R’ Nosson Adler said should be discarded .
I forget the exact details off hand I’d be happy to provide elaborate when I look it up this eveningYou should call your sefer יֵין קַפְרִיסִין
Health
“This is what happens when you spell words the way they sound.”
you pronounce rampant as rampid?
why not just say you made a mistake it was a typo or something., why dig your hole deeper by using your mispronunciation as a defense for misspelling ?
Just the opposite it makes you a big big tzadik
you are keeping two chumros !
1) treating eggs as meat
and 2) treating milk as meat. You see There is an ancient chumra to treat milk as meat since chalav has the same letters as cheilev. Of course it is meat that cant be eaten with other meat due to a special limud of lo sevashel but this lo sevashel doesn’t apply to egg-meat2 is true
1 is absurd. Even assuming “The modern Orthodox … divorce fairly often ” Nobody gets married to someone they dont find attractive, telling themselves “Well if I don;t find her attractive there is always divorce”“But once she has created a baby ”
The discussion partly, hinges on Who decides at what point it becomes a “baby.” and perhaps more importnantly who gets to decide that. (note this isn’t a medical question)
Even you, clearly don’t fully define a fetus as a baby since you allow for its “murder” if ” the mother’s life must be saved.” something you wouldn’t (I assume) allow with born babies.
So clearly you too make some distinction between a born baby and an “unborn baby’
“This is why even man eating savages would offer a last wish to the person they were about to kill & eat.”
Just so I have this right, that man eating savage is more moral than environmentalists, femanists and proponents of human rights?
Could you help me understand the connection? Is marijuana or toeiva marriage bad for the environment?
(Sorry about the typos)
You are doing the same strange thing you do when confronted with the uncomfortable fact that the Torah abhors pure free market capitalism,. you come up with all sorts of strange pretzels of “logic” to fit things.
why can’t you just say you support capital punishment, although unfortunately sometimes (rarely?) it leads to a miscarriage of justice, and that those example are long ago and there have been improvements etc
Leo Frank was found guilty his sentence was capital punishment. True the sentence was commuted, but practically speaking it was carried out. Those responsible for the lynching were not prosecuted although there are pictures of them witnesses etc
In other words, they had tacit government approval.
Regarding Ethel Rosenberg, your comment is even is more astounding. does not “naming names” warrant the death penalty? does turning her brother into a communist? What on earth are you talking about
Leo Frank was found guilty his sentence was capital punishment. true the sentence was commuted, but practically speaking it was carried out. Those responsible for the lynching were not prosecuted although there are pictures of them
In other words, they had tacit government approval .
Regarding Ethel Rosenberg is more astounding. does not “naming names” warrant the death penalty? does turning her brother into a communist? What on earth are you talking aboutAvi
you are doing the same strange thing you do when confronted with the uncomfortable fact that the Torah abhors pure free market capitalism,. you come up with all sorts of strange pretzels of “logic” to fit hings.
why can’y upu just say you support capital punishemtn, although unfortunatly sometimes (rarely?) it leads to a miscarriage of justice.
Leo Frank was found guilty his sentence was capital punishment. true the sentence was commuted, but practically speaking it was carried out. Those responsible for the lynching were not prosecuted although there are pictures of them
In other words, they had tacit government approval .
Regarding Ethel Rosenberg is more astounding. does not “naming names” warrant the death penalty? does turning her brother into a communist? What on earth are you talking aboutביי אונז האט מען געזאגט אז גאנבענען איז נאר א אונגערישר מנהג