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Let Eli Beer stick to first aid, which he knows, rather than opine on subjects outside his expertise.
Dofi: You can’t get any more dopee than taking a freak incident, something that never previously occurred in the 80+ year history of the Chareidi community in Lakewood (or anywhere, for that matter), and pretending it is some kind of example of things that happen every now and then, when in your dishonest you know good and well this is a virtually unprecedented non-example of anything.
Of course you conveniently forget examples that don’t fit your false agenda, such as the story all over the news about ten years ago of the Modern Orthodox husband in Staten Island that murdered his wife after she advised him she wanted a divorce.
Regarding suicide, I can’t argue with you that suicides have never occurred in the Modern Orthodox community. They must be a special class that’s exempt from such stuff. I’m sure a Lexis-Nexis search will turn up nothing.
skripka:
1. Don’t avoid the question; the question has nothing to do with the other questions and discussions, but pray tell why is the norm in the MO world to have about two children whereas the norm in the Chareidi world is to have about eight children (and oftentimes more)?
2. Kiddish Clubs have famously existed in MO Shuls for decades; that’s where they originated. There’s no doubt that getting drunk on Shabbos is far more common by the MO than any other frum communities.
3. The claim was advanced by DaMoshe that “Tuition there, if you make 150k, is capped at 15%. If you make less than that, they assume you can’t even pay 15%”, regarding MO schools and a family with 8 children earning 60k/year. Do you believe the MO schools will accept all these 8 children for less than $9,000 per year (60k*.15), or less than $1,125 per child, per year? You’re being dishonest if you claim you believe that MO schools will accept that little tuition.
4. Flatbush has very very few mansions, certainly as a percentage of frum homes. Even Boro Park, which has relatively more than Flatbush, is also still a small minority of frum homes. On the other hand, in most of the major MO communities in America, having large fancy homes is the norm — not the exception, like in Chareidi Brooklyn.
And you’re also very incorrect about store pricing. Boro Park and Flatbush have the lowest pricing for frum products (food, clothing, seforim, books, Shabbos/Yom Tov materials, etc. than in any other frum community. Indeed, frum people come from all over the country to shop in Brooklyn due to the far better pricing than they have available locally.
I’ll address to the other points in a future commitment, but DaMoshe, how many Jewish kids in Teaneck would even be bothered if a Jewish owned book shop in Teaneck was selling adult entertainment (vhamaivin yovin) material to the Jewish community?
Not too many would be bothered. And certainly not bothered enough to shut them down.
And there’s the difference.
Lernt: The Zionists know as well as anyone else that a volunteer army, like the US Army, is much better than a forcibly/unwanted drafted enlistees. But the Zionists built their army to first, and foremost, be a “melting pot” to turn all recruits into Zionist ideology subscribers, including secularization more than anything else.
If they don’t forcibly draft, many non-Zionists will remain non-Zionists. And nothing can be worse than that, from the Zionist government’s perspective.
Why does anyone need to know? There’s no need to know this story. It’s better for everyone to not know or talk about.
“EXCTL, as a lawyer”
Ex-lawyer.
(FTFY)
Apologies to CTL (the beginning of summer is slow.)
“If you’re making 60k, then no, you’re not paying the majority of your income towards tuition.”
DaMoshe: Do you really believe that Kushner will reduce their $21,400 per child, per year, tuition cost to under $3,750 per child, per year, for a family earning $60k with eight children in school?
DaMoshe: Chareidi Yeshivos, despite having a significantly lower tuition than MO schools (which are more often than not co-ed), provide a far far superior Limudei Kodesh Torah education than any MO school. Everyone sees and knows this very clearly and unambiguously. The extra money put into MO schools goes towards secular studies.
And, still, 50% of the MO students end up OTD; a statistic coming directly from eminent MO Rabbi Steven Pruzansky of Teaneck. In the Chareidi world, the OTD rate is in the 1% ballpark.
It is clear who is doing things right — and who is doing things wrong.
Reb Shraga Feivel (who preferred to be called as “Mr. Mendelovitz”) held the Satmar Rebbe in a very high degree, and always considered him to be of the foremost Gedolei HaDor.
There’s very good reason why (and how) the Orthodox demographics in America went from 70% MO in the 1960s to 20% MO today.
skripka: The tuition point is addressing a separate issue.
The entire lifestyle, not just the homes, of MO Jews (not heimish yidden) is based on materialism. You can see the open differences between, say, Brooklyn/State Island Yidden and Teaneck/Five Towns Jews.
Why do you think MO Jews, generally, have such small family sizes whereas traditional Orthodox Yidden, typically, have large family sizes?
DaMoshe: Yes, it is well known that MO schools don’t negotiate significantly lower tuition rates whereas traditional Yeshivos do.
How many times have you missed a “Kiddush Club” in MO shuls? Not too often. Then they come home shikur. This issue is extremely rare in Yeshivish/Chasidish minyanim.
If you have 8 kids in MO school (in the imaginary world where an MO family has 8 children) and your income is $60k/year, you’ll be paying most of your income to the MO school, if you want a chance of keeping the 8 in MO schools.
lakewhut: It is true that the SY families in Flatbush often have fancy houses, but by the Ashkenazic Yeshivish families (Flatbush, Kensington, Bensonhurst, Boro Park, etc.) that is infrequent.
“Only” $17,000 per child, per year, tuition at the lowest cost MO school, if you’re lucky enough to live close to it?
Wow, that’s real cheap!
No wonder MO families can’t afford to have more than 2.1 children (and a dog), on average; and work so hard against G-d ‘s ideas on being fruitful and multiplying in order to keep up with the ever decreasing American (and Western) birth rate.
lakewh: There’s no doubt that materialism and and pursuit of worldly pleasures is far greater in MO communities than in any other Orthodox community. Even if no one is immune, unfortunately.
The vast majority of frum homes in Brooklyn are nothing fancy, at all.
I see you didn’t put the costs in numeric order, and my quick reading of it missed a “lower” priced school at “only” $13.5k per year, per child. Even that is astronomical, especially for a family with six, seven, eight or more children. Which is exactly why you don’t find MO families with so much children, as you would in traditional Orthodox families.
It is well known that MO schools don’t negotiate lower tuition prices by much, even if the family cannot afford the MO schools lowest offer. Unlike Chareidi schools where many parents can be paying $4k/year per child, some even paying less than that and some parents even paying almost nothing.
skripka: What on earth are you talking about? The sheer materialism and pursuit of worldly pleasures in Teaneck, Five Towns and other Modern communities is unparalleled anywhere else in other frum communities. In New York you can easily find poor Jews; not much in Teaneck Five Towns and other Modern communities. The MO schools won’t even accept children unless the parents agree to pay over $30,000 per child. In Chareidi communities the Yeshivas will accept children for free, if necessary. And even those that pay, pay much more reasonably. And the homes in the Modern communities are far far more fancy show and tell than what you’ll find in Chareidi, Litvish or Chasidish, communities.
The IDF doesn’t want Chareidim and Chareidim don’t want the IDF. It is a mutually beneficial non-relationship.
The only agitators demanding change are the antisemites (some of whom even wear a kippa) who hate Chareidim and want to de-Chareidicize them by forcing them into the army melting pot to secularize them; much like 50% of the daati leumis who join the IDF by time they are discharged are no longer religious.
I once heard a few MO guys in YU “learning” with a discussion of what is a bigger miracle, Yom Hatzshmutz or Purim.
The idea that Chareidim are willing to go, en masse, to prison rather than the IDF isn’t just an empty threat; it is the reality.
The Zionists need to choose between quadrupling their prison population or the status quo.
No one should be sleeping on a pillow or soft mattress while Israel is at war. A wooden bed is the most anyone should use.
What does hospice entail?
Regarding the financial issues, why would avoiding extraneous expenses be problematic in any way?
aIY: I did not say that *all* of the members of the classes I cited are exempt; but certainly some members are exempt for being a member of the named class.
And if I erroneously included a class, the point still remains regarding the others.
DaMoshe: Where did your Modern Orthodoxy alleged mesorah come from? Moses Mendelsohn?
Simcha: Every country, including Israel, exempts multiple classes of people in society. Including, but not limited to, judges, elected politicians, legislators (MKs), university students/educators, certain entertainers, journalists, conscience objectors, Arab Israeli citizens, etc.
Those who learn Torah are more qualified for an exemption than any and all of the above.
Especially as we all agree that the army is not short personnel, as they are demonstrating today in the current war they are not suffering losses due to a lack of soldiers. It’s well known that the IDF has long had too many people, not too few.
Chaim: How will you calculate the value for Medicaid?
uno: They can manage well calling up the reservists as needed, including a second tour if necessary. As such, given that need it’s fulfilled successfully in that manner, they do not need additional personnel. The IDF are well staffed.
And even the necessity of recalling reservists in this manner is only necessary in times of a major war such as this. Even that much wasn’t necessary for many decades until Oct. 7.
DaMoshe: I know nothing about the Chasidus you’re describing or whether any of your claims are accurate or not.
But I do know that Modern Orthodoxy has no mesorah and MO started many new things. Including many things against the Torah. So how is it that not only have you no complaints against MO, but you actually self-identify as one?
The problem with immigration began in 1965 with the new immigration law.
Chaim: How do you think participants in government assistance programs should be assessed regarding income, for a program such as the one described here?
Dorah: There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Justice being very close friends with someone who is a “passionate advocate for many of the policy issues coming before the court”.
The IDF does not need additional soldiers. They aren’t short personnel.
The IDF is long notorious for znus.
DaMoshe: Are saying that Rabbi Bender sins at times?
If a family with seven children in school is earning a combined $90,000, the tuition for the seven children will be capped at $18,000?
Wolf: You should have a Refuah Shelamo Bmheiro.
DaMoshe: The State of Israel doesn’t believe in Hashem. Israel is an atheist state. The state started with communists. Israel is officially Mechallel Shabbos with public transportation, entertainment and much worse. The army has a long reputation of znus. Israel officially supports the eating of treif. Even their leader is an atheist treif fressing mechallel Shabbos.
Japan surrendered unconditionally.
America letting the Emperor retain his title while stripping him of all power, was out of America’s good will; it was not required under the terms of Japan’s unconditional surrender.
The current peace plan that Biden announced originated from Netanyahu, not from Washington.
Israel always to a greater or lesser extent licks up to Washington’s demands since if America dropped Israel as an ally Israel is up the creek.
DaMoshe: Did any set of your grandparents ever live in Lita?
akuperma: Japan did surrender unconditionally.
Regarding Hamas, they do not seem inclined to agree to end the war if they have to give up control of Gaza.
yytz: A majority of today’s so-called “Litvaks” are of Chasidic heritage.
Including Reb Shraga Feivel. (Although he preferred to be called “Mr. Mendelovich”.)
Ex-CTLawyer: Please allow me to be the first to congratulate you upon your new name.
I can understand why one would change the second part of the username, but there is nothing embarrassing about being from Connecticut.
I certainly don’t disagree with this sentiment, but, of course, if one had the choice of highlighting their New York affiliation or their Connecticut affiliation, certainly any reasonable person would tout their New York credentials.
“could someone here clearly articulate how a jury could convict Trump?”
It’s very simple. It was preordained from the get-go. It was deliberately a cherry-picked jury in the most left-wing zip codes in the country, chosen for its location.
Wolf, how are you? It’s been ages since you last treated us with your wisdom. You need to come by more often.
How is your health coming along?
Reb Wolf makes an excellent point. You CAN change your existing username. Go to:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/users/ctlawyer/edit
Add a “Nickname”. Then switch your Display Name to the Nickname you just chose. Then click Update Profile on the bottom of the screen.
One thing to keep in mind is that doing this will also change your display name on all your old posts.
“their current leadership is a lot less controversial and definitely to the right of who and what it was forty years ago.”
Surely you jest. You can’t seriously believe that today’s YU is more to the right than it was under Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik.
All the homosexual rights started in YU in the late ’90s, when YU officially recognized and funded YU homosexual clubs. This was shortly after RJBS passed away. Since the ’90s it has gotten much worse; in the 2000s even the YU mashgiach Joseph Blau himself was defending the homosexual movement.