Always_Ask_Questions

> Rabbi Goldshmidt is not a govermental appointee and hold no offical position

So he does not have to go back and attend Putin’s funeral? And the other chief rabbis also? Some good news.

DontMind, I am one of those parents … and you can look at threads discussing education, there are a lot of people of all ages with different opinions. Girls (or their parents) are indeed less realistic. My theory is that for a potential learning couple – a boy needs to show years of work, while a girl needs to develop interest in finding a learning boy, which is way easier (in a short term). So, an obvious disconnect, more girls can achieve that stage when taught that way at school.

Not trying to give an advice beyond most generic. Maybe, you need to show your abilities in some other way – in chesed, working prospects .. go join an organization that works with unobservant yidden or sich kids; find an exciting job; brush up on your math & English skills, even if you are behind, you probably have enough skills. You need to define yourself in a positive way, not just in your relationship to what you are not. This may take time.

Hm, what a coincidence – both England and the Colony have both a dour man at the head, supported by a powerless woman with the same name. Except Joe is Jr (2nd) and Charles is the 3rd.

ujm, you could find out by a simple “how do you do” when you see her, but you have to ask thru a 3rd person given your stance on talking to women.

Avira > What about just using it for business and not having it at home at all,

I think it is fair if this works for you. I do prefer to work from home as much as I can, so that I can model (hopefully) proper behaviors to kids and also learn with them. And I had to deal with some inappropriate internet usage with older kids, so was thinking for a time to go the way you describe, but it evened out and younger ones do not seem to have these issues, bli ayn hara, maybe because they see the older ones.

The downside of your approach is lack of proficiency in skills that their generation will be using. Internet is not like TV that will quickly go away, it has sufficient positive content. At some point, humanity, and Yidden in particular, will figure out how to filter out the wrong parts. Maybe, we can re-use Chinese firewall software, I hear it works to keep 1 bln people under control ..

So, I don’t want the kids to start typing with one finger when they are 20 and not being able to distinguish between a research paper and a facebook post. So, this is not just part of the mitzva of giving them a job skill, but also of teaching them swimming (in life).

R Meir Shapiro and others were elected members in Sejm, not government officials, like CR. In addition to mentioned, R Mordechai Dubin was elected in Latvia. Current chief Rabbis in Russia shows us that decisions are not always easy to make: one abandoned his post and fled, another one still there (I am not sure if these are the only two, maybe there are more). Presumably, each of them have some sevoros to support their opposite course of action. So, if you bump at a Chief Rabbi at Queen’s funeral, please don’t make scene.

My mesorah is herring, shnaps and gemora vort by the bar mitzva. The main place where a bar mitzva boy is discussed in a chumash is ben soreh and moreh. Was he eating at the bar mitzva is not clear.

Weddings and funeral were always going towards more expensive ones, there are lots of takonos in Gemora and later trying to make them less extravagant.

Restaurant business has a very low profit margin and high risk of failure. So, probably, yetzer hara to use something cheaper is very high. Still, how often do we have failures like that? Halakha often uses “rov”, not absolute guarantee. Maybe if you buy 3 chickens from 3 different restaurants and then mix you up, you can go by rov?!

RebE > Chasam Sofer was asked, is it permitted for women to sing in a shul to honor the King

I just read a story in a kosher source about, I think, Austro-Hungarian Queen not King (was there such a thing?) being honored by Jewish girl dancing and a discussion between a general and a Rav who were present. Maybe Chasam Sofer was not the only posek.

>> THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH STRONG OPINIONS THAT BEINGS “ON THE DOLE”
> People” meaning you? And we don’t live our lives based on omigosh what will the gentiles think

I do mean Americans. Several acharonim on YD mention hillul Hashem, this seem to take into account what they think. It may be an interesting discussion when we do or not take into account. A famous answer to some European monarch why Jews do not follow majority (of all people) is “only when there is a sofek”.

As to this question, I checked the polls, it seems that about half of Americans are skeptical of public
of public assitance. So, even as overall legal system is a compromise between two sides, there is a large minority that will see unjustifiable use of public assistance as shameful. So do we follow the law as is or do we keep in mind that maybe 4 out of 10 people will see this as Hillul Hashem… When same R Henneman warned people skirting quarantine laws by joining several yards to make a minyan – that someone will not give a ventilator to a Jew in the hospital – he surely did not mean that majority of people will behave this way, just some of them.

I was told by someone who was teaching at a modern school, that showing impressive videos of drug abuse did not improve morale but dramatically increased knowledge level of the those students who were not aware before that.

I would suggest modeling positive internet usage before the kids get to their own. They should see you using a big-screen computer in an open space with your screen visible to others; using it to find information, work, access Jewish learning resources. Then, let them help you.

ready > How can the woman sleep at night knowing that the feeder is upsetting her neighbor?

that’s the right question!

Gadol > Alternatively, take an Ambien

This is by goyishe law. In Jewish law, as ready says, a person needs to make sure that his action is not bothering someone. See Bava Basra – making sure the bird is beyond 50 amot from the nearest house before taking it; a person with the higher roof needs to build a fence …

Avram > I believe the government money being discussed in Israel referred to funding for schools.

yes, and the argument seems to apply more generally.

> if they went away, things would become much more challenging, but iyH the “system” wouldn’t collapse.

I don’t know what the numbers are, but your argument fits what R Shach is saying in terms of “partially relying”.

Avram > [ THAT IS NOT IN THE TIMES OR PLACES WHERE WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR SOCIETY FROM SHMAD AND SUCH]”
That is certainly this time and place.

So, maybe this is where the real disagreement lies. Here is my naive view of current Jewish demographics in US:
2/3 are non-observant and assimilated and quickly losing any connection to Yiddishkeit and have a slight chance of being rescued by Chabad on campus or a birthright trip…
remaining consist of
– MO that grows moderately while losing some on the left side to assimilation into liberalism/OO, etc
– non-MO that grows fast, with some moving closer to MO when going to work/college.

so, this last group does not experience much assimilation, unless you count any shift towards work as a first step in sliding down. I don’t think it is. People with now 3 generations of yeshiva education are not marrying shiksas if they enroll in Columbia. At worst, they get some modernishe religious views. The worst of that is also preventable, as people here referred to Landers as an alternative to YU; and to Baltimore.

Avram > We’re not discussing relying on people, but on government programs that the citizens pay into with their taxes. You should avoid utilizing public roads,

Right, this might be a reasonable position (Obama used it against Romney – “you did not build that, we did”). Maybe this is what R Henneman means when saying “they dont do it for tzdokah”.
a) are there sources making this argument explicitly?
b) what would be included in Sh’A definition beyond “tzedokah”
c) would the resolution depend on time and place? There are people with strong opinions that beings “on the dole” while able to work is shameful and there are those who want to make everyone comfortable … I guess, state laws will reflect majority attitude and you need to read those carefully. So, halocha for TX and CA will be different.

Avram > You are coming from a starting point that does not seem to be Torah based, in fact acknowledged with, “[m]aybe I am biased by Republican thinking.”

This is an important point. I understand your feelings but not your logic. It just seems that certain cultural and historical trends became so entrenched that there is internalization that this is the only Torah and defensive reaction to that. It is a reasonable reaction, and we had similar reactions in history. For example, we found ways to distance from religions that use our books…

It _seems_ to me that the community went too much in this direction, well past the time of danger we were protecting from. And that is why I am pondering this. I am not 100% sure that this is right. That is, if I were a Lakewood parnas, I would not start introducing math classes into BMG, but I would go discuss this and maybe do experiments. And as it unfortunately happens in online forums, discussing a position unfortunately leads to making and taking shots. I am trying to be impartial, but maybe I failed, To clarify, I am not claiming any facts, for example, that kollel members collect welfare. I am just saying that – as a matter of Jewish attitude – they should not. If someone says to me that they usually don’t, I’ll be happy to hear that.

Syag, as an OT, what issues do you see with pepole overusing computers?

syag > glimmers of potential developmental damage

I agree with that, but one should also look at developmental advantages. It is still an open question which one prevails, and depends on how family handle devices and life in general. I am all for careful approach to new things, but I am sure people complained that because of the evil cars, people will forget how to feed horses, and phones will stop people from writing letters, etc.

On the damage side, there are approaches to manage – have devices in public room, defined time access, etc. On the advantage: if kids see parents using devices responsibly: for work, comms, learning, YWN :), you can expect them to do the same eventually.

In my humble experience, trying to fight inappropriate behaviors with early teens is a losing battle – smart kids can break through any filters you can create and they have more time on their hands than I do … But once they started using everything constructively, things turned. No need to teach kids chores – I can just ask them to google how to use the vacuum.

Avira,
in US, you can say a brocha on the President or a Governor, probably bli shem.

what is interesting to contemplate – during American revolution, UK was the biggest enemy, now US and UK (and other former British subjects) are closest partners. Sometimes, people fight those who are closest to them … We can learn from that.

Apparently 20% of 3rd candidate (R) did not mark up anyone as ranked choice, presumably some because they did not like Palin, and some because they did not get how this works.

Also, were the other R finished second, he would have been more likely to beat the D due to less empty protest votes.

Australians point out that their system is slightly different:
– you have to have a 2nd choice. Not sure this will be popular in US where you don’t force people to vote even for the first choice!
– only one candidate per party is allowed into the finals. This will help for some time, until parties subdivide.

My suggestion: to use candidate agreements instead of voter rankings, the way Israelis divide partial knesset seats. That is, candidate themselves decide who is most similar to them and gives them the votes he “earned”.

RebE > The culture has changed so going to college currently became more dangerous than when going in my time but there is also Touro and online education available.

Right. To “more dangerous”, I think the danger reached a peak maybe 20-30 years ago with some decline lately, as you are saying – with increasing college option that do not focus on “college experience”. College went thru same transformation as air travel: people used to put on their “shabbos clothes” so to speak going to the plane, now they dress like they are in their bedroom.

when evaluating dangers, one should look at the recent experiences in similar circumstances: kids coming from same community and school; same type of college – local/campus, off/online, Ivy/technical/Jewish, technical v. humanity major, etc. Results seem to vary a lot based on these factors.

ujm, thanks for the (self) reference.
I am looking again at the reference to YD without even mentioning Shach there. I am very perturbed when someone quotes sources “from his side”. Especially when trying to defend Torah learning. This is self-defeating.

R Moshe’s psak there is the most relevant in terms of time period. But look at his argument – you do not need college education for parnosa if you don’t want Cadillac. This was true at his time – when I think 10% of men went to college and even less of women. This is different now. Majority goes to college (obviously it is not same level as it was then) – and thus to live like an average person, you may need college. But this is off-topic as we are discussing learning non-Jewish subjects per se, not for parnosa.

DY,
this is well beyond Rambam, both in opinions and in issues, see above. I am not sure why is everyone so emotional here .. So many poskim discuss the issue, suddenly I am a hater by trying to get some clarity.

As you see, I was trying to find sources supporting the position opposite to mine. There seems to be 3 hoops you need to jump thru:
1) learn by taking someone else’s money. You say, we are not machmir like Rambam, Shoin, be meikel. Even as Lakewood Vaad tries to use Rambam. But this is just 1 step

2) Can we use non-Jewish public assistance in general.
You guys are saying that public assistance is not tzedoka. And this off-hand remark by R Henneman says same. My difficulty with this is that even accepting R Henneman idea, YD has a more general statement about not relying on people. Here I am more curious about halachic process rather than the end result. It seems like a reasonable sevora that as we live in the state that provides equal access to these services to everyone and we pay equal taxes, we should be able to use those services.

3) and this is my biggest difficulty – can we use those public sources for poor in order to support learning.

Approach may depend on how we explain the issue (2) above and whether this explanation
extends to allowing using these funds for extra things. From my naive sevorah in (2), this does not look good – society dedicated funds to help poor people (or by R Henneman, took money from other people), and we are using it for a different reason. Maybe I am biased by Republican thinking (see Gingrich welfare reform), and Dems look at public assistance differently. I was told here that some public assistance does not require looking for work, for example. Possibly some does not, like medicaid and family-based assistance. I checked SNAP in a couple of states and it seems to require actually looking for work. Maybe we can say that non-Jews ignore their laws & regulations in practice and case workers are happily giving cash to everyone, and we can just follow their practice. I am not sure why I am trying to guess through this process. I am hoping that those who go for it, have asked shailohs and can explain how this is supported halachikally. And why being machmir in such issue is not preferable when possible. [ that is not in the times or places where we need to protect our society from shmad and such]

Maybe let’s go to basics – Hashem created the World and gave us Torah. It is accepted that there are two ways to appreciate Hashem – thru learning the secrets of the World and learning Torah. Some, not all, discussions of “Maase Bereshis” and related subjects seem to even include science secrets into Torah secrets.

And seemingly accepted answer is that while it is respectable for humanity to learn appreciate the World; for Jews, learning Torah has a direct access to Hashem’s knowledge, superior to the science approach. Not fully dismissing it though. That is why R Twersky recommends learning physiology to appreciate complexity and beauty of Creation – but not as a yeshiva seder, by yourself at night (this is probably what Rema means).

Now, a hard question – science (including social) has greatly improved from the time of Gemora and Rishonim, and not just summary of achievements but methodology. Say, Gemora in Ketubos 60 discusses how food affects baby development. We now can do medical experiments, statistical observations, double-blinded experiments to study such problems. Were Abaye and Rava to live in our times – would you think they’ll take new knowledge into account? I don’t know whether they’ll go enroll in a nutrition degree, or talk to a nutritionist, or read papers, or conduct their own experiments, but I can’t imagine them not taking this knowledge into account. So, why we do not have modern Abayes and Ravas writing recommendations to chatanim and kallot on what to eat?

People elected Trump to do things over politicians did not dare, and he did not disappoint.

Nobody elected Biden for his bold vision. He was elected, as it says, for promising unifying and calm. I don’t think he lied. Probably the power went to his head, together with people around him (that he selected).