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Twisted?
Wow, everything should go b’hatzlocha. Careful about the Stella D’oro – are they makpid on pas Yisroel, especially on Shabbos? Now’s not a good time for a frumkeit gaffe.
I like the idea of a dried fruit platter l’kavod Tu Bishvat. You can do that without the cookies (I think that might be better even if they were PY or they weren’t makpid).
Shmoolik 1,
I do not want to be motzei shem ra. on anyperson or institution
Then why did you?
but what are the many non students doing in the yeshivos besides smoking and just hanging around why do they not serve or G-d forbid get a job
Whether or not they should serve is a debate among the gedolim (nachal chareidi). But they obviously can’t get a job. What they should be doing is learning. Their bittul Torah is not just bittul Torah, it’s a chillul Hashem. But this is an individual’s shortcoming, it’s not institutional.
Mdd,
However, I think, the Chareidim overpushed their luck there.
I’m not sure what you mean; if you mean that there are too many loafers who aren’t using their time productively, I am sure there are some, but I don’t know how many. I do know what I’ve read about the Chazon Ish’s take on it; he considered those who give undeserved exemptions to be rodfim, because they cast a negative light on the serious learners (IIRC). I believe the same is true for individual loafers, but I wouldn’t call that “the Chareidim”, because it’s not institutional.
You can not just look at it form what is better for a bochur’s learning vantage point.
That’s where we disagree. I can’t overstate the importance of learning in general, and specifically as it relates to the development of b’nei Torah. The very future of klal Yisroel is at stake, and this is the reason for the strong stance of the gedolim, as I understand it. It’s a no compromise issue.
Thank you for speaking up agaist shmoolik’s post. I feel like Ican carry on a normal discussion with you. Although I disagree with you, I do think that you’re trying to be reasonable (as am I, I hope).
Popa would be right, except that after you husband agreed to go to the restroom, she should have dropped it. She’s a nasty, obnoxious person.
Telling her she must be divorced was a bit much, but I can understand your emotional state at the time.
ICOT and OOM, yes, I’ve already ID’d him (although it was subtle, I don’t think anyone but he chapped. You know, he is very “choppy”).
Mdd, it is about bittul Torah, and not just about not being able to learn forever. Even in chu”l, those who can, learn full time from mesivta (ad v’lo ad bichlal in most cases) until several years after marriage. Those very years, the ones in which someone is able to focus on their learning with some menuchas hanefesh and no or little burden of parnassah, are the ones which would be spent in the army.
Army service would be a hindrance to the typical American yeshiva bachur as much as it would to one from E.Y.
Aside from the spiritual danger (which is especially acute in those days of youth), they want to take away those ikar years of learning.
Yes, as a result of the way the system is set up, they tend to learn longer than in chu”l. Rav Mordechai Zuckerman, zt”l, used to refer to these long term learners as “Ben Gurion’s talmidei chachomim”. And yes, therefore there’s an unhealthy negative attitude, for some, to working. But that’s primarily a product of potential army duty which forces the average amount of years in kollel to increase.
If instead of drafting them into the army, they would allow them to work, many more would, but you wouldn’t hear this outcry.
T613t,
I did not say it was ethical (my previous post was facetious, in response to popa). I think it is UNethical.
I was only disagreeing with the degree to which it is wrong, assuming the other person wasn’t being hurt. Still, I think it is a lack of respect for the other, unless the motivation is purely to save them from hurt feelings (which it isn’t). So although I disagree with it, I don’t think it defines the person as selfish.
If the other person is being hurt, I think it’s a horrible, selfish thing to do.
The politician is not a religious figure.
Make a kumzitz with lots of Carlebach songs and stories.
Ok, I take it back, it is ethical. Is that better?
I sometimes agrree, and sometimes disagree, with akuperma’s posts, but either way, they usually make me think.
Popa, does it work? Even if it does, it can’t possibly tell you (unless I’m missing something) if there was a response to your specific comment, only if there was any new comment on the thread.
Wolf, I don’t think ICOT was referring to you. He was warning against someone posting their negative feelings toward their sibs. You have, from what I’ve seen, only expressed love and admiration for your relatives.
Manipulating the other for your gain is very wrong, and I am shocked at DY’s laissez faire attitude about it.
I’ll take that as a compliment.
I did say it’s unethical. You obviously think it’s much worse than that, but I’m not sure we’re talking about the same thing. I am not talking about someone acting obnoxiously, only what t613t was referring to, making it appear as if there’s a difference in hashkofah. The goal, I assumed, was that both parties would tell the shadchan that it’s not a good match, rather than than it being a unilateral “dump”. I would think that the dumped party, not knowing they were dumped, would actually be spared the insult which inevitably, if undeservedly, results from being dropped.
Acting obnoxiously is almost never excusable. Except calling someone fat. 😉
Sure, and I understand why people would want to kill people and steal their money and wives.
This is probably not as bad.
You could just as easily say that people would want to do it because it is uncomfortable to be the one saying no.
that people would want to do it because it is uncomfortable to be the one saying no.
You’re right, just as easy. But that’s pure weakness of character, whereas not wanting the shadchan to think you’re picky is practical, if you want them to redt you more shidduchim.
If I thought someone was doing this to me, I would tell every shadchan I know and every friend of mine about it.
That’s another good reason not to do it (especially since you never know, it might be Popa). I think being unethical (the reason I gave) is good enough, though.
commonsense:Anyone know anything about which hechsherim in Miami Beach are reliable.
shnitzy: KM and OU
popa_bar_abba: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/ou-kashrus-is-not-reliable#post-384209
So I told her that Popa would never agree to date her because she is fat. Now she’s mad at me, and doesn’t even know that I’m Popa.
When you called her fat, she probably realized that you’re Popa.
People are not as mature as they use to be.
Well, then they’d better get married right away before they turn into babies!
Yitzchokm,
Oh, ok, sorry. So I’ve only been called a troll, not a borderline troll 🙂
OneOfMany,
I didn’t say I like it, but it’s the reality. And I still think it shouldn’t be done, I just understand why one would want to.
Confucious,
According to some, you’d be in the best position to know that. 😉
Mom18,
Ok, but this wasn’t a competition.
I think I hear 613a’s point (the a is so that you’re not just a number).
Saying no can be detrimental to shidduchim because it might alienate the shadchan who thinks you’re too picky. If the boy says no, if anything, the shadchan might feel bad for you and try to find a suitable match.
The trick is to find an ethical way to do that. I don’t like your proposals also far.
He says that R’ Schechter is fine, but that R’ Steinberg is no good
For clarification, he undoubtedly meant the Steinberg who collects money through the “Cup K”, NOT the Rabbi Peretz Steinberg, Rabbi A. Schechter’s father-in-law, that popa was referring to. Rav Peretz Steinberg is extremely ehrlich. He is officially the posek for R’ Asher Schechter’s hashgocha, but has no hechsher of his own.
I agree with Oomis. I would add, so should a man, so should a girl, and so should a woman.
borderline troll
I’ve been called a full fledged troll, that’s ok. This website is called Yeshiva World, you know.
My zivug isn’t running away…
There are many possibilities of who to marry. You probably won’t marry the girl whose (father’s) name was in the bas kol.
Squeak, you’re not talking about the Modzitzer records with Ben Zion Shenker, are you?
You’re not talking about Andy Statman, are you?
Yes, I’ll admit that my collection has more than just that type, because there’s not enough to avoid boredom. But I agree that even the older “Jewish” music, from the 70’s, 80’s and forward, isn’t genuine either.
Ok, lots of ranting, but still no evidence.
Just ask Sholom Rubashkin if the court system is fair to orthodox Jews.
I’m not saying he’s innocent, but I don’t know that he’s guilty either. Aside from yichud not proving worse occurred (although it would certainly be a black mark), I don’t know where this information that he was alone in a triple locked room comes from. So far, nobody’s told me a reliable source for this.
Of course there are horrible things going on in all communities. But when you go after someone with a good reputation, based on accusations from people with a horrible reputation (and no other evidence), how can you expect the community to react in any other way but as a victimized community?
If the point was to have the community take abuse more seriously, it had the reverse effect. They will take any further accusations with even more skepticism than before.
Jewish music is not overrated, but the stuff that passes for it nowadays is.
it is inconceivable that this was allowed
Agreed. What is the evidence that this occurred?
Mdd,
It’s one thing to discuss an issue, but I hope you didn’t just say that you are being moche!
Apy,
I doubt it. Maybe I’m just naive.
1. I never read it and probably never will. I’d like to think that you either don’t remember it correctly or never understood it correctly to begin with.
2a. I don’t know if he does either, but he is.
2b. Which part is strong – that kefirah is assur or that there’s something called lifnei iver?
This entire thread is based on a false premise.
613,
No, that’s not what I’m saying.
I didn’t say anything about a troll 😉
Sorry, soldiers aren’t toilet plungers. Couldn’t you have thought of a better analogy for people who risk their lives to protect Yidden (no matter what their motivation might be)?
Your analogy to sports teams is a pretty good one – some people wear those sweatshirts to show support for the team displayed, and some (although certainly a minority) simply because it’s stylish or because they received it from a fan or bought it in the local thrift shop.
Kanoi,
To get votes.
The baby.
ZD,
Of course it’s possible, but there are many (myself included), who feel that in this case, he doesn’t, even though he often claims to.
The “goal” of these plays (aside from keeping the girls busy), is to help develop latent talents and leadership abilities. If that hasn’t happened with you, 13, it’s a shame, and the production heads really should try to get everyone involved in the creative process.
Not every part of school is optimal for everyone, but by focusing on something other than academics, a much higher percentage of girls are able to feel successful and accomplished.
This is ultimately, IMO, more important than the academics.
Oomis,
He gave the # of his rebbe from Lander, not his shul’s rov.
ZD,
There were two reasons for R’ Moshe’s psak.
1) Killing the recipient. This has likely changed.
2) Killing the donor. This has likely not changed.
Rav Moshe’s opinion is best represented by his son R’ Dovid.
613,
I don’t think wearing a sweatshirt is an automatic show of support for whatever is behind the logo, as HaKatan opined. It may or may not be.
GAW,
No, I do understand your overall point, but I would hardly count R’ Chaim’s shitah as his own, and the Steiper’s was really the Chazon Ish’s. In E.Y., the shitah of the gedolim won’t change, (but the application might change because of circumstances).
Where there is some divergence in the Yeshivish’e shitah is between the Briskers and everyone else. Rav Schach, who was very close with the Rov, supported elections (obviously), while the Briskers kept away.
Some users profiles are interesting. For example:
1)hardatwork
Member Since
January 21, 2013 (1 day)
2)justwantagoodoy
Member Since
January 21, 2013 (1 day)
Location
Doesn’t like being called a troll.
Occupation
the big bad wolf should ask mechila
3)young men (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/young-men)
Member Since
January 21, 2013 (1 day)
Location
cleveland
Occupation
learning part time
Interests
many
4)boredsouls
Member Since
January 21, 2013 (1 day)
5)agoodbygirl
Member Since
January 21, 2013 (21 hours)
6)ShiraTobala
Member Since
January 22, 2013 (12 hours)
7)yentapesha
Member Since
January 22, 2013 (2 hours)
That’s seven usernames created within the last day or so, all on this thread, and sharing a bunch of other threads as well.
I wonder if by any chance they know each other.
613,
Hakatan said, “anything”.
I didn’t take a poll, but for krias Sh’ma, M’A; for sh’moneh esreh, Gr’a.