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And Al Pi Halacha, using secular court is an issur gamur normally. They MUST, al pi halacha, arbitrate their dispute in A B”D, whichever one it is. Secular court is NOT an option for a Jew.
Creedmoor Chassidus and Doswin are strong believers in this, especially claiming Kim Li that Kol D’Alim Gavar. 🙂
Yes. Where are the Rabbanan blamed in Gemarah?
The whole “The second Bais Hamikdash was destroyed due to Sinas Chinam” bit.
Listen, I don’t like the idea of this book either. You could also say (which the Gemorah says as well) that it is the fault of the Rabbonan who didn’t kill Bar Kamtza when they realized he was out to get them. However, if you do want to dismiss it (which I assume you do), the best way is to ignore it, not have an 11+ page thread on it. Who cares if it is the truth or not?
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.”
Dr. Seuss
In addition to understanding the religious implications of the Churban, for example, we can also understand the historical processes that led up to, culminated in, and followed events like the destruction of the Second Temple, the defeat of the Bar Kochba Revolt, the Crusades, the Inquisition, Tach V’Tat, and the Holocaust.
Simply put, for all of those “historical processes”, we Yidden needed a Potch. I trust Hashem that we needed it.
gavra_at_work, first of all, she was not rejected, she had friends, and she was treated very fairly in school and everywhere, it was her decision to leave the torah life and go for her lusts.
I have a bridge to sell you, great view of Willy.
If you think that this nebuch girl with her family situation was treated just like everyone else who conforms, and that the society had absolutly nothing to do with it, you are even more blind/desperate to attack her than others here, who are selective in their sight. I’ll choose not see you either. Besides, Bar Kamtza had a choice too, and the Rabbanan are blamed for pushing him into it.
Anyone else have anything to say about my theory?
I would like to obtain “a Choshuve Sefer”. Is it sold on Amazon? What is the ISBN?
🙂
Frum businesses many times are worse than Fortune 500 Companies. “Frum” Businesses follow the rules of the owner, but corporate America has its own rules.
Theory: Devorah Feldman = Bar Kamtza
Rejected for bad reasons, and therefore telling half-truths to put Satmer in a bad light. It worked, and whom does the Gemorah blame for Bar Kamtza? Use this as a springboard to fix the issues that are discussed, instead of trying to stuff them under the carpet together withe everything else.
MS: He brings in too many Holocaust comparisons to be credible. Your author is using scare tactics, which makes me wonder what the real reason is why he is scared.
Personally, as I have said before, you/we should not care what other people think. Avraham HaIvri was against the entire world, but he was right and followed Hashem. That is what counts, not trying to get the world to “like” you.
I’m a little confused about this.
Why do some people feel that it is necessary to go public (tv, internet) with our halachos and our culture? Why are we looking for approval from the outside world? Is the approval from Hashem not enough?
Training in mitzvos and sensitivity for tznius etc. starts at a very young age. We spend an entire childhood training for our responsibilities to the torah on we reach of age. Then we go on tv and expect to show the beauty of it to the whole world, and they should also understand it and respect it. It makes no sense to me.
What do we stand to gain?
Chabad Chassidim specificly feel it their mission to spread Yiddishkeit around, similar to the concept of “Tiukun Olam” everyone else degrades (which is why they have “Noahide Rabbis”, etc.). Otherwise, I don’t know if anyone else cares.
I think we should outlaw any marriage ceremony where there is no exchange of rings and vows. After all, marriage is a Sacrament that exists between one man and one woman, as stated in the Good Book.
Any such marriage ceremony that does not contain an exchange of rings and vows should be null and void. The offenders will be guilty of Fornication, and will be punished as such. After all, Bais Din has the right to beat someone until they follow Halacha!
In addition, Divorce is hereby outlawed, as per the teachings of the Church. All those divorced shalt be jailed (and I know someone here who fits the bill 😉
And if a B”D or Rav paskens that the children are a negative influence because the parents didn’t listen to something they said then they are a bad influence and the schools should not and cannot accept them.
Unless you have Kesef. An in-law relative of mine had his PHD give a nice five figure donation (Other side, not mine, I wish I had a PHD) to get his grandchild in. With inflation being what it is, you probably need six figures at this point.
As I said, justification enough for someone to go OTD.
Poe’s law may be applying itself here.
Dont besmirch Lakewood! It is for the most part run according to the ideals of Halacha and frum Yiddiskeit.
One Caveat: The antics needed to get your child into a school is reason enough for someone to want to go OTD (I don’t know if that is Al Pi Halacha or not).
You are talking about two different things: “intimacy” with a spouse (not for children) and marriage (Which is, assuming not like the Rosh IIRC).
I doubt she went OTD because of her failed marriage.
But a sucessful one would have prevented it. It also seems he is not innocent (as he is on Facebook!, which no Chossid would be on).
“and (or but) everybody hates the Jews”!
You mean it’s not National Brotherhood Week?
As for the original question: perhaps if you see a young beautiful 18 hear old being arranged in marriage to an abusive man with the face of a horse you can safely predict this may not go so well in a few years.
Like!
It’s not the girl or boy that goes OTD, it’s the failure of the relationship (in many cases, and seems to be true here as well).
Sure, as long as it is not showy.
real israeli’s suggestion is a good one.
I don’t think anyone follows #2. Nobody views it as Malchus. Do I look at it like Peru? No, because Peru has no kedusha to it. Israel is a holy land, and historically the land of the Jews. Do I believe we have a divine right to have it now? No, that will come with Mashiach. That doesn’t mean we can’t have it now as long as it was done properly, without fighting – which it was, through diplomacy.
The land? The land belongs to us, always and forever. I’m not talking about the land, I’m talking about the institution.
Is the institution Kadosh? Lets say it was replaced in a method like the Glorious Revolution of 1688, and a new form of government came out (for arguments sake, more of a loose federal system like the Swiss, with states/cantons). Would you care, assuming rights are protected and no blood is shed? If not, you have no specific “loyalty” to the Medinah (which is what Health is currently rapping against, the institution). If yes, why?
How do you and others like you support a Medina based on Kefira?
Against my better judgement, I’ll post here:
There are (from what I can see) three views on the state of Israel:
1: The state should be abolished (Satmer).
2: The state should be treated as Jewish Malchus.
3: The state (as in the institution) should be treated no different than someone would treat any other state, such as the state of Peru.
I believe Health’s question is how can anyone follow option 2, if there is no “Melech” annointed by a Navi and the institution does not follow the Torah?
Just have her in mind three times a day, when davening vlamalshinim.
Have me in mind when saying “Al HaTzaddikim”, NOT by “V’al HaChassidim”, and certainly when saying “V’al Ziknei”! 🙂
Wolf = Poe (for some)
Thats all. 🙂
The Cynic in me says: Going to work instead of learning all day and collecting from those who work 🙁
My real answer? Fancy Shaitels. But now Americans are bringing it over to EY as well.
I just gave you the reason. And here’s your measly $125. 🙁
If you believe my fee is “measly”, I do accept tips. 🙂
I have no issues with you “reacting strongly” (for the reasons I said. It is expected).
As LessChumras said:
I don’t disagree with what you said. I just find it amusing how you and others are reacting when the shoe is on the other foot.
3) There is no such thing as a misnagid nowadays.
V’ha Ana?!
(not really, but Chassidim now aren’t really Chassidim the way they used to be, so there is no need to be Misnaged against them).
I have been to Kiryas Joel (for minyan) and been welcomed, no one looked at me like I had three eyes.
Sam2: I think the point they’re making is that since the establishment of the state, jews have been killed or wounded in israel because they were jews, more than in any other place in the world.
Selective Bias.
If that is your assumption, then she certainly is up to no good.
msseeker: Yes. If you want, I will use the term “react strongly” instead of “defensive” (which you may feel is negative).
my way of life is being dragged through the mud by my fellow Jew
Be strong and ignore her. Hashem and His Torah is your justification. Besides, I wouldn’t call it a Chillul Hashem, if what we are doing is right. Taharas Hamishpacha is not a Chillul Hashem. Let people know that we sacrifice for our Ribbono Shel Olam (isn’t that what we always tell the MO?)
For some reason, the Chassidish women “react strongly” to this, just like MO “react strongly” when someone disrespects Rav Kook. It’s only natural.
That will be $125. 😉
One is clearly a stringent practice and the other sounds kind of oppressive.
I don’t know a single high school kid that would make that distinction, and the teachers are betting on it. If not, you can throw out all Chassidus, none of which is Halacha (and much is against, such as Z’manim).
Besides, can you blame her for thinking that all Chassidus is like Satmer and has the same rules?
Someone is defensive. Are you also a Chassidish woman? See my post to MSSeeker. Don’t feel the need to justify yourself.
“Hashem lives wherever you let him in”.
Poshut a Gemorah/Halacha regarding “Komah Zekufa”.
“The book should be renamed: “The Protocols of the Elders of Satmar.”
Like!
The laws of Tznius, Taharas HaMishpacha, and Mikvah Immersion apply to ALL Jews, not only to Satmar.
When she made fun of those laws, especially in public,
she held ALL Jews and Judaism (the Torah’s way of life for Jews) up to ridicule.
Sure, and transubstantiation makes sense. 🙂
All religions have illogical points. I (and others) will not see that as a point either way, except perhaps for Marx.
Who decides the Halacha?
Gavra, there is a chiyuv to have children that isn’t abrogated. And besides, no one can stop anyone else.
So don’t expect children of incompetent parents to behave themselves.
How can a Baal Habos transition to being a full-time Torah learner?
Finish with tuition, and tell your sons & SILs they are on their own.
Pashut. The hard part is saying “no” to your children.
I have a simple solution.
Don’t allow anyone to have children unless they are capable of taking care of them, which includes making sure they don’t “hang out” (if the parents include it in the definition).
I second the thread’s title:
lets get rid of all the seminarys thread
(there is a misspelling, it should be seminaries)
He says very few Jews undergo this.
—
The Ramchal did not live to see Soros, Chomsky, Levi Aron or Dwrek.
And you think no one in Europe was a Sonei? Chotai U’Machti? Come on!
While we may all agree that eating crab cakes is bad, please tell me by what stretch of the imagine talking about eating crabcakes in any manner can be considered “murder.”
Obviously written by a member of PETA.
By the same argument, some people should stop working so as to provide zechsim to people who will give Tzedaka to them.
Likewise, people should stop going to the doctor for preventive medicine so as to provide zechusim to people who will daven for them when they develop an illness.
The Wolf
Take it up with him. I’m just reporting what the Gadol said.
Dancing around a fire and paying homage to the great Zoroastar, who brought the secret works of Yasna Haptanghaiti. 😉
I heard B’shem Rav Shteinman (Israeli Mishpacha, for what that is worth) that buying life insurance removes Zechusim from others, as the children no longer will need to collect Tzedaka after the parent is dead. Therefore one should not buy life insurance.
I’l keep that in mind for next time but New York chinese is soo much better. You should come try it 😉
I’ve actually had both, but thanks for the offer 🙂
GAW: I think you’ll find that you are not correct about that. I have found that almost all chassidim in America favor working, and are comfortable with blue collar work also. Not only satmar.
I believe you are correct. Thank you. I wanted the line more than thinking about the distinction 🙂
BS”D
what is wrong with you?
Nothing. I saw the same thing as well (Zdad said every, MS said mostly). Let’s be fair.
MS to a certain extent (maybe even subconsciously) takes this personally, as the author rejected MS’s position in life (a Satmer/Chassidish Housefrau) to be “free”. To a certain extent she is justifying why the author is different, and why MS made the correct choice.
To MS: There is no need to justify your choice. The Torah and Hashem is your justification.
Frum men who stay frum somehow learn satisfactory English, and many of them are exteremly successful. The running insider joke is, “I learned it in Satmar college.”
Satmer specificly to the exclusion of many (I SAID MANY! 🙂 Chassidus’ value work and have a strong work ethic (for those who go out to work, they go all out). That helps them to succeed more than any “english” or College skills could.
It is, but this time I got cooked, not fried, Major Tso and it was really bad. So now I know to go with the unhealthy version next time. But their brown rice was good 😉
DIET Chinese? Ugh!
Try the spicy chicken peanut salad next time you come around. Easily my favorite (but then again, I’m a guy).
soliek +2
awesome Ten-Li Chow
I second. Their food is quite good 🙂
I’m going to request that this thread be removed. A Yid is a Yid, and we don’t do thid to other Yidden. She hasn’t Shmad herself, and she is Malai B’Mitzvos K’Rimon.
To All:
Taking an organ post facto now that it has already been removed (correctly or not) is different than deciding to remove organs. Once it is removed, clearly it should not go to waste. Should it be removed? That is a different question.