Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Rocky: Bingo! And toeiva homosexuality SHOULD NOT be a public issue either! Why is YU accepting this toeiva as a public issue but adultery not? Only because the perverted toeivaniks DEMAND that their sickness become a public issue. No other reason. And YU plays ball with this. YU, in the long emailed statement two people posted above says YU hosts support groups for them, YU gives sensitivity training of their rebbeim and professors about toeiva people and YU presents public events so that all of their students better understand the toeiva experience.
YU boasts of doing all this on behalf of toeiva people, to push it over the rest of their non-toeiva students, faculty and rebbeim, but does no such thing on behalf of adulterous students.
E.I.E.: I’ve discussed it with multiple Roshei Yeshivos. None of the people you mentioned are close to the top tier. And, yes, we can compare levels – in fact, we need to in order to judge who is an authority in the first place. If you can’t compare levels then how are you to know that someone is a godol? The fact that he is accepted as a godol only means that many people have judged his level to be that of a godol. But if you cannot compare levels, then these people have no right to accept him as a godol in the first place. Part of knowing who to follow is to know who is greater. Godol mimenu b’chochma ubaminyan is an assessment that it legitimately made. And as Rav Shach writes – if you dont know who to follow, follow whoever is greater – and, he adds, you can of course tell who is greater. If you yourself dont know, then thats fine – not everyone can know the answer to all questions they encounter – but why in the world would you say nobody else can know.
Rocky: Don’t they love people who are struggling with the yetzer hora to commit adultery? If so, why isn’t YU support for adulterous students mentioned, with the hosting of a support group for them, sensitivity training of their rebbeim and professors about such people and presenting public events so that all of their students better understand the experience?
“>>>Also, could you imagine RIETS being under the umbrella of the Mennonites?
No comparison. The umbrella YU organization is not under the control of the toevah crowd. Nor will it ever be.”
smerel: Yet the YU organization is condoning, funding and supporting the toeiva crowd.
The Mennonites, like YU, also is not under the control of the toevah crowd. So what’s the difference, if anything?
“Does Yeshiva University welcome LGBTQ students in its undergraduate schools?
Absolutely.
We welcome, love and care for all our students, including our LGBTQ students. We place a specific emphasis of importance on supporting our LGBTQ students. There are a number of ways we express this support, including hosting an LGBTQ support group, requiring LGBTQ sensitivity training to all of our rabbis and faculty and presenting public events so that all of our students better understand the experience of being LGBTQ and Orthodox.”
This disgusting official statement speaks volumes. Does YU welcome, love and care for all our students, including their adulterous students, murderous students, sexual abusing students, Christian missionary students, and atheist students? If so, why aren’t they announcing all those students as well? If not, why not?
And, note that YU in this statement is referring to its undergraduate/RIETS program, not its postgraduate programs.
Does YU
Ubiq, my point is those real Rabbonim who decades ago taught at YU didn’t do so for parnassa; similar to those who teach in Conservative schools they taught in YU for Kiruv purposes.
ubiq, how do Orthodox Yidden teach in Conservative Jewish schools?
Also, could you imagine RIETS being under the umbrella of the Mennonites? And the Roshei Yeshiva of RIETS saying we protested other Mennonite subsidiaries worshipping getshkes but we have no control over what they do? If not, why would anyone think being under the YU umbrella, with YU condoning and funding many aspects of outright kefira, any different?
What Gedolim, DaMoshe? There are none there. Sure, there are still a few kosher rabbis there, despite all the horrendous things otherwise, much like Jewish Theological Seminary had some kosher rabbis in the early 20th century (the same rabbis, in fact, that were affiliated with the Orthodox Union.) But Gedolim? No, sir.
And before you get all bent out of shape over being told this truth, think about the fact that you yourself offer no respect or recognition of any “Gedolim” at YCT. Just as your justified in disrespecting YCT, others can similarly say so regarding YU.
Jack, I can put you in touch with one of the people there who heard him say it.
MBO: I have two. (And it makes Dora crawl out of his skin.)
Rabbi Yeruchem Gorelick ZT’L was asked what induced him to go work in YU. He said (in Yiddish), “Rabbi JB Soloveichik convinced me that the future of Torah in America depends on YU.” Then he slapped his head, as if to say “What was I thinking?”
There’s nothing more insane than starting troll threads.
The issue mentioned in the OP pales in comparison. But Zionism is a close second.
Point is, YU was really bad even long before YU got toeiva clubs. The toeiva clubs changed it from terrible to horrendous.
Rav Ahron Kotler refused to set foot into YU even for one of his talmidim’s levaya. Instead, he stayed outside and didn’t come in.
And that was in his time already.
Baruch Dayan HaEmes
המקום ינחם אתכם בתוך שאר אבילי ציון וירושלים
Who is fighting? You must be hanging out with the wrong crowd.
147 is an old timer. He is real and he is serious.
If the law was that universities are required to have all students bow in front of a cross once a week, would YU require all its students to bow in front of a cross once a week, because — after all — that’s the law?
Many Yeshivos never stopped.
The Goyim are catching up.
Amil, I take it that you’d oppose the government taking antitrust action against the monopoly?
Did the boy ask his rebbi for mechila?
commonsaychel: Why so cynical?
Sounds like the internal politics of the National Socialist Party in the Weimar Republic, circa 1930s.
AJ: Anyone, including those with no insurance and no money, can walk into any Emergency Room in the United States and receive service.
The vast majority of Jews cannot speak Hebrew. Most religious Jews understand written Hebrew but still cannot speak Ivrit.
Y2836: That story has absolutely zero credibility. There’s no way that Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer ever referred to himself as one of the Gedolim.
Avira, how did so much information about him only become available recently?
Y1836: Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer never said anything closer to “We are only Gedolim…” Where do these bubbe maaisas come from?
RW: Many Litvish speak Yiddish.
You still are ignoring the fact that Ivrit is a different language than Loshon Kodesh.
Zushy, can you repeat your last paragraph in understandable language? It is very unclear.
Jack, in 2009 the Democrats were running the government.
“Yes, it might be but the CR is public. Writing is better than talking.”
Reb Eliezer, you’re saying writing to a woman (Pen Pal/Email Pal) is a Yichud problem. Presumably you’d say the same problem exists with phone calls. Apparently you’re basing this on the quantity of the letters/emails/calls; and you’d say that a single (or very small number) of phone calls or emails or letters between a man and woman is okay. But on what basis are you asserting a Yichud problem is only a problem if it is too often? Having Yichud even once is assur.
Syag, what’s your position on a man and woman being Pen Pals or Email Pals?
… with pubic funds (not their own.)
This is how Democrats buy votes.
Reb Eliezer,
“‘It is permitted for a man to talk to a woman regarding work or business related subjects… See Beis Shmuel 21/4 “However hearing her voice during speech is permitted”; There is no prohibition found in Poskim regarding interaction with a woman for business related matters”
The CR isn’t business related matters.
Reb Eliezer, you’re saying that writing a letter or an email to a woman (or a woman to a man) is a Yichud problem, correct?
Reb Eliezer, your comment about אל תרבה שיחה עם אשה, seems to indicate you’d have no problem with a man having a female Pen Pal (or email pal) that they write letters to each other every few days, for long periods of times, since it fits into the criteria you established that they haven’t met each other and they don’t see each other or hear each other.
Is this your own boich svara or do you have any source for this criteria you established?
Kosher phones are lousy for voice calls or for data?
You can have a kosher phone with Verizon; is that what they switched to?Reb Eliezer, what about Al Tarbe Sicha Im Haisha?
RW: You keep confusing Ivrit with Loshon Kodesh. Different languages.
Y1836, anyone who can write a “teshuva” regarding one of the foremost Gedolei HaDor, such as Yehuda Herzl did regarding one he didn’t like, questioning whether it is “muttar” to refer to said Godol HaDor with “zatzal”, demonstrates that the person is unqualified for anything serious and is — at best — no more than a little joker.
Avi, there’s a vast difference between sending a child to a mixed high school versus an adult attending a mixed college or workplace.
What kosher activities needs 5G, that can’t work at a slower speed??
Avira, where did you learn with Rav Leibel Katz?
Avira, I read them. (And I’m sure I’m not the only one.)
MH does have its roots in Loshon HaKodesh, but its adjustments of it make it the worst of both worlds – since it has Loshon HaKodesh elements we dont want to use it for our mundane purposes – and since it has non-Loshon HaKodesh elements, we do not want to accept it as our national language. So to speak MH is one thing, but to say it is the “language of the Jew” is just not so. Neither is Yiddish the “language of the Jew”, any more than a black hat is the “clothing of a Jew.” But just as the purpose of the hat is “lo shinu es malbushayhen” – we want to dress differently than the seculars – thep purpose of Yiddish is “lo shinu es shemom” – we want to talk differently than the seculars.
There is no Mitzvah to speak in Loshon HaKodesh. Without the modernizations, its not much of a speakable language (we don’t have that many words). And if you do add in a bunch of words and tweak it, youll just end up with another Yiddish, but based on Loshon HaKodesh, which is only a bad thing, not good, as per above. Plus, the Responsa Chavtzeles HaSharon (I:OH:10) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is only Kodesh if its used exclusively for holy things. Once you start using it to speak mundane things, its not holy anymore. It’s like an Aron HaKodesh – once you use it to hold your model racing car collection and not Sifrei Torah, its not an Aron HaKodesh anymore.
In the Sefer B’Tuv Yerushalayim it relates that the Maharil Diskin refused to speak to a certain Talmid Chacham of Yerushalayim because he used to spek only Loshon HaKodesh. Said the Maharil Diskin, “For generations we are accostomed to speaking Yiddish, not Loshon HaKodesh.” He saw in the speaking of Loshon HaKodesh a contradiction to historical percedent, which originated based on the ideas in the aforementioned issues. The Chasam Sofer is in his comments on Shulchan Aruch, OH #65 – the reason we do not speak Loshon HaKodesh is to prevent undesirable people from speaking it, plus to prevent its being used in Tameh places. The posek Hagaon Rav Akiva Yosef Shlezinger in his Sefer Lev HaIvri says we should not change our spoken toungue from Yiddish, and he draws parallels with our usage of Yiddish in modern times, to our usage of Aramaic in ancient times.
What about giving a Shiur or Dvar Torah in Loshon Kodesh? The reason that was not done is because Loshon HaKodesh is very hard to use in a speaking manner – its much more suited to writing. Would you start a sentence with “hinei”? And even when Divrei Torah are writen in Seforim, they add in many Aramaic words and expression, to the point where someone who only know Hebrew but not Gemora language would have a hard time understanding it. There simply aren’t enough words or expressions in Loshon HaKodesh to do that. Its awkward even when it can be done. So since theres really no reason to do it – there is no Mitzvah to speak Loshon HaKodesh – but there is a Mitzvah to understand your learning as best as you can, it was deemed by Klal Yisroel better to use foregn language – or at least a combination of Loshon HaKodesh and foreign language, which is really what is needed to get a complex Torah idea across.
Remember – the Gemora itself was done in Aramaic – a foreign language, and not Loshon HaKodesh. And thats because it was more easily understood. Foreign languages still are. And the point of the Chavtzeles HaSharon by saying that Loshon HaKodesh loses its holiness when spoken for mundane matters was that doing so is a Bizayon for the Holy language and it therefore should not be done. Historical precendent is valid only when the past generations could have done somethign but clearly chose not to. Speaking Loshon HaKodesh was an available option for them just as it is for us – and they could have created a “speaking language” out of it if they wanted – just like they did recently. The fact that they didnt shows that they chose not to. We should, too. But Loshon HaKodesh – with the Aramaic and foreign words mixed in, which is what is used for Torah – is not really speakable. But it woks best from the written Torah word. Its not a coincidence that after thousands of years, those who finally came up with the idea to speak Hebrew were atheist Apikorsim who did it specifically for heretical reasons – because in order to be a “nation” you need a language.
Other reasons why MH is not the “language of the Jew” are:
(a) Its origin is actually anti-Jewish. The creators of MH did so because “it is not possible to be a nation without a national language” (see Eisentein’s encyclopedia, ‘Ivrit’). This of course is Apikorsus, because Jews are a nation not like other nations – whereas other nations need a common spoken language, we only need the Torah to make us a “nation”. We are no more or less an “am” if we have or do not have a common language, common food, or common geographic boundaries. The idea was that MH will make us into a “nation like all nations”, in the same way that some fool may say that all Jews should eat bagels and lox because without doing so, we will be less of an “am”. And even though those who speka MH in Bnei Brak today do not subscirbe to this heresy, we do not consider this language the “Jewish language” because it was created to actually change the definition of what “Jewish” means. In The golyon Maharsha, quoted by Rav Reuven Grozovsky in “Bayos HaZeman”, there is brought a responsa of Rav Yaakov Sasportes, a great combatant in the fight against the Shabse Tzvi y”s. He says that Shabse Tzvi actually intorduced some positive, even obligatory practices into Judaism. Performing Birkas Kohanim daily, even in Chutz La’aretz, was foremost among them. But, says the Ohel Yaakov, even though this is a good and positive practice, and perhaps even obligatory according to Halachha, since its origins came through Shabse Tzvi, we should not do it. The same applies, all the more to making MH our “national language.”
(b) The changes in Loshon HaKodesh that were made, both in accent and content, are unacceptable. The changing of accents from Ashkenaz to Sefard for Ashkenaz Jews is wrong. Rabbeinu Bachye writes that if you change even a komatz to a Pasach in the language, it will lead to heresy. Also, certain words in Hebrew are definitely against the spirit of the Torah. (Ben Yehuda once said that he designed the language specifically to “shtoch” the religious). Example: “Chashmal”, which means electricity in MH, comes from the Loshon HaKodesh word found at the beginning of Yechizkel which is the name of the Angel of Fire. The idea of taking the name of the Malach of AIsh and using it to mean “electricity” was the implication that whereas in the olden days we believed in angels as explanations for things, today we believe in technology. It would be the same as calling penicillin, for instance, “Rephoel.” The Debreciner Rav ZT’L actually discusses if it is permitted to use this word.
RW: Modern Hebrew is not different than Turkish or Farsi – it is the language of a secular culture complete with all those things that we want to stay away from. The fact that some of those who speak Modern Hebrew are religious Jews is not different than the language of any country Jews are in where they speak the language of the land. The point is to stay away from the language of the land and only talk the language of the Jew.
The Radak (Sefer HaMichlol, introduction) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is all but forgotten to us, and all we have left is what is in Tanach.
The Chasam Sofer notes that while Chazal used many words and phrases borrowed from the Greeks and Romans, they never coined a new word, as has been done in modern hebrew, for in their holy opinion it was preferable to use other languages rather than create even a single new word that did not have its like, its example, in the Torah, since it could not be rooted in sanctity.
The Chasam Sofer EH 2:11 says that in ancient times Jews used to use a modified version of the non-Jewish languages for everyday (divrei chol) talk, similar to what Yiddish is.
The Rambam writes that even in the days of Ezra they had a translator to explain the Torah readings to the people – clearly, they did not speak Loshon Hakodesh, even before the Churban.
Maran Hagoen Rav Elazar Shach told American educators that Yeshiva boys should be taught Chumash in Yiddish, even if the boys speak English amongst themselves. He furtermore said that both boys and girls should learn to be comfortable in Yiddish. He also said that Yiddish is spoken by “all jews” (that is his phrase). He referred parents to send their children to Yiddish teaching yeshivos. And there is good reason why Rebbes and Rabbonim give ma’amarim in Yiddish.