ujm

Yseribus: Is Rav Shach Litvish enough for you? First of all, before WWII, in Europe, virtually none of the Litvish Yeshivos had any serious secular studies program. All that is American. Secondly, Rav Chaim Segal ZT’L, the Menahel of the High School at Yeshiva Chaim Berlin was once told by Rav Shach ZT’L that if possible, he should not be teaching English studies. In Eretz Yisroel, almost all Chareidi Yeshivos do not have English at that age. Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L made some kind of commitment not to allow English studies on the HS level in Lakewood. The exact details, and if this was actually a Takanah or merely a preference, is not clear and depends who you ask. In any case, Rabbi Elya Svei, Rosh Yeshiva of Philadelphia and a student of Rav Aharon’s, was asked why he allows English in Philly if Rav Aharon was against it. What difference can there be between the town of Lakewood NJ and Philadelphia PA? Reb Elya answered that he has no choice, and that currently, the Baalei Batim would not send their kids to the Yeshiva except under these circumstances. Is any of this the ideal? No. It is not. Is it justified? The schools say it is, as they have no choice. But the point is not what the Jews do, its what Judaism wants. Everyone agrees that it would be a higher level, a preferable situation if we would indeed not learn English even at the HS level, at least not beyond what is necessary to survive. Nobody claims it is an ideal.

Regarding High School, the only reasons it is allowed is either because education is mandated by State Law (in New York it is until age 17), or simply because if they did not have High School education in the Yeshivas, parents would simply send their kids to worse places to get it.

But it is definitely looked upon not as a l’chatchilah, but rather as something that is annoyingly necessary in the current environment.

Today, there are a small number of High Schools in America – particularly in Lakewood – that do not teach English. Also, many Yeshivos do try to reduce the amount of secular studies as much as possible, through knocking out the last semester of English, and a number of kids are leaving HS early to enter Bais Medrash.

Is Rav Moshe and Rav Ahron Litvish enough for you? Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L denounced college in a Teshuva, and in a famous speech delivered to his students, published under the title “The Counsel of the Wicked” (Vaad LeHaromas Keren HaTorah, New York, 1978). There he reiterates that everyone has an obligation to become great in Torah, we should not care so much about Cadillac’s (yes, this was said in the “olden days”), and that learning Torah is what we should be pursuing, not secular stuff. He says in America you do not need college to make a Parnassa, and we should be willing to live on little, not a lot, for the sake of Torah, and that R. Nehuray’s statement of abandoning all skills in favor of Torah applies all that more today that we live in a country where you can make a parnassa without college, with no miracles needed.

There is a tape available in many Seforim stores called “The prohibition to learn in Colleges” (Yiddish), which contains addresses by Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L and Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L condemning college.

Mazal Tov, LF!!!

The OPs point was that diamond engagement rings came directly from the goyish world. Of course give expensive presents, etc. But this particular “thing to do” is a foreign import.

Bravo! I second the OP.

None of the feeble-minded who opined that there’s some kind of issue for an adult to lightly put his hand on the back of shirt of the shoulder of a teenager for the twenty seconds they walk through a very crowded hallway, addressed Menachem’s very pertinent point regarding whether you call 911 at every Chasuna you attend and at every Shul during Simchas Torah when adults put their hand on the back of a child or, the much worse crime of, holding a child’s hand in the dancing circles.

Every wedding and every Simchas Torah should be seeing dozens of men being led out in handcuffs.

DaMoshe: Did you hear any other bubbe maisas that you want to share?

No one has the right to tell any family that the wtfe has to get a job in addition to the husband’s job. Period. The normal default expected behavior of humans from the beginning of time until recent history has been the husband works and the wife runs the home and takes care of the children. That the world has gone beserk and started sending mothers out of the home is absolutely no reason to try to force Jewish women, Chasidish or otherwise, to do so. End of discussion. That is the Torah way. Halacha is full of admonitions that women should not leave the home other than the few times it is unavoidable. That others are following the Torah and Halacha on an issue where you feel you had to change b’dieved to do otherwise, is no excuse to try to force anyone else to take up your heter. And, no, entitlement programs do not require a two income family to qualify.

So with the primary reason for the disparity in income between Torah Jews and the national average being a one income family versus a two income family (especially two full time working adults), that disproves the lie that a lack of college or other community education decisions contribute to a notably lower income than average public school graduates in New York.

Furthermore, much like the Park Slope hippie with his archeology and anthropology degree not earning him any especially high income, a decision he consciously made since archeology and anthropology is his passion, something he’s willing to take a significant pay cut compared to other educational choices he had, something that is absolutely his right to choose. You are no one to tell anyone else to become a doctor, lawyer or whatever else you had a cholem about. And, yes, even with that decision should that goy have ten children no one else has any right whatsoever to complain. And on that same token, any Jew, Chasidish, Yeshivish or Litvish, has that same right to choose a lower earning parnassa to trade off for more family time, more Torah time, more educational pursuits or whatever else he rationals his decision on what career and incoming earning potential he decides.

If the government doesn’t want to give welfare to families with “too many children” who pursued a career in a lower earning bracket, the state legislature can disqualify such families from snap and Medicaid. But should they ever have the chutzpah to propose such legislation, the African-American community will riot in America’s cities, since that would bankrupt all their welfare queens, who are the real and most numerous beneficiaries of the entitlement programs, rather than any demographic of Jews.

Shimon: A far better idea would be for you to put your head in a Gemora, for once.

Additionally, Monroe and Orange County are rural New York areas that are not majority Orthodox Jewish. So taking the rural county figures and comparing them to national figures is not comparing Orthodox Jews to others. Those figures you cite bear no relevance to this discussion.

The government isn’t the answer; the government is the problem.

They qualify for food stamps and Medicaid despite earning high incomes because their large family sizes, with so many children k”h, means they technically qualify for government entitlement benefits since they are legally deemed “impoverished” based on family size, despite a large income.

Zushy: The Zionist government admits hundreds of thousands of Russian goyim, Ethiopian goyim and other goyim. Many many of them undergo a fake Zionist “geirus”, after which they never keep a single Shabbos and never intended to, thus remaining goyim but now permitted by the Zionist rabbis to marry real Jews.

My response is that I have one garbage can that everything goes into. I’ve never recycled.

Yseribus: You’re mistaken. We’re talking about that MO OTD rate of those who grew up keeping Shabbos and Kashrus and later, while teenagers and young adults, stopped keeping Shabbos and Kashrus.

Read the articles I referenced above in previous comments.

Yseribus: Then you’re a twit. The MO have an OTD rate of somewhere between 33% and 50%. Read the articles I referenced above written by Modern Orthodox Jews (Avi Ciment, Rabbi Avrohom Gordimer as well as by MO Rabbi Steven Pruzsnsky.) They all openly admit huge percentages of children and adults in MO families are giving up keeping Shabbos and Kashrus.

Froggie: They’ll easily sit on the jury a homeless vagrant whose day job outside the court is taste testing various alcoholic beverages. After all, that’s the American ideal of sitting a jury representing every aspect of the American population, without discrimination.

That picture doesn’t look like him (even considering aging.)

Also read the underlying three part articles of “The Modern Orthodox Conundrum” by Avi Ciment.

When making the above statement to the judge, say it with the greatest sincerity and earnestness and ask the judge to please select you for the jury, because you’ll be able to convince your fellow jurors of the correctness of your abilities, and thereby quickly conclude jury deliberations within a day, so everyone can wrap up the case as expeditiously as possible, saving the court time and resources.

The article entitled “Modern Orthodoxy’s Moral Failure”, authored by Ben Shapiro and published on December 12, 2022 in the Jewish Press is well worth a read by everyone.

It’s extremely easy to get out of jury duty, legally and penalty-free, for anyone so inclined One easy example is during questing tell the judge you’ll be able to ascertain the defendants guilt/liability as soon as you take your first look at his face, because you know that you are gifted to be able to read it from just his looks.

“I always mention Shabbos

Works almost every time”

CA: What did you do when it didn’t work?

What would you have done had one or more of the parties been Jewish?

DaMoshe: When you say “tzniusly”, how are you defining that term? A skirt that covers the knees when standing erect but not all other times? If above the knees is exposed when walking, running, bending, going up/down stairs, walking in a mild wind, getting into/out of a car, etc., does that still qualify as tznius in the community you speak of? Does a baseball cap covering “most” of the hair qualify?

How does he bill himself as the Jewish Sean Hannity? And what does it mean to be the Jewish Sean Hannity?