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ujmParticipant
Dr. Pepper, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the issue.
To take your example, suppose the husband summons his wife to Beis Din for the purpose of initiating Gett proceedings against her. But, unlike what you suggested, she accepts the subpoena and appears in Beis Din. Her husband begins proceedings by stating he came to give his wife a divorce. He lists a litany of complaints ranging from the she doesn’t prepare meals in a timely manner, doesn’t take care of the children well, is often unfriendly to him, doesn’t keep up the household properly, etc. She responds that she disagrees with his assessment, and believes the marriage is viable and whatever imperfections correctable. He says he tried working with her for years on all these issues but not much changed.
They are at a standstill. He demands to divorce. She responds in Beis Din that she wishes the marriage to continue and as per Cherem Rabbeinu Gershom she hereby invokes her right to decline to accept the Gett her husband wishes to present to her.
My contention in the above scenario is that, given the circumstances as presented, she prevails. It is her right to to remain married to his despite his wish otherwise. And he remains obligated to continue supporting her, living with her and providing her with onah and all her conjugal rights. I maintain that this is the clear and unambiguous Halachic result and that he is not able to receive a Heter Meah Rabbonim in this case. If anyone would like to contend otherwise let them present clear Halachic arguments against this obvious Halachic conclusion.
As an endnote, the same result would be true in reverse, and Halachicly even more powerfully (since in that situation it is a pure Torah Law rather than a post-Chazal rabbinic decree), with the spouses roles in the above scenario reversed, with the wife seeking a divorce but the husband seeking to continue the marriage.
ujmParticipantSo here’s a Halachic question based on the above conversation:
One of the major provisions of Cherem Rabbeinu Gershom is that a husband cannot divorce his wife unless his wife wants to get divorced. Rabbeinu Gershom decreed that if a wife wishes to remain married, then the husband has no choice but to remain married to her. (Much as the husband has that equivalent right directly under Torah Law; whereas if he desires to remain married to his wife, then his wife is not entitled to a divorce even if she wants one.)
Of course in both sets of circumstances there are exceptions to the rule, and a spouse may be entitled to a divorce even if the other spouse doesn’t want to divorce. (Except by Sephardim and other non-Ashkenazim the husband, presumably, can divorce his wife against her will [since only Ashkenazim are subject to CRG.]) But, by default, barring extenuating circumstances where there is a clearly defined and proven Halachic justification for an involuntary divorce, the spouse desiring to maintain and continue the marriage prevails over the spouse desiring to divorce.
So my question, given the above, is when in fact is a husband entitled to a Heter Meah Rabbonim based on the fact that his wife declined to accept the divorce he wanted to give her? Rabbeinu Gershom specifically gave the wife the right to decide to refuse to accept a divorce from her husband.
ujmParticipantSo-called Neo-Chasidus is the movement started and led by Rabbi Moshe Weinberger of Yeshiva University, in his Woodmere congregation.
ujmParticipantmentsch1: Thank you for sharing. Your point is when stronger than motcha11 as your saying the 100 signatories to a Heter Meah Rabbonim don’t even need Smicha.
ujmParticipantCheck Craigslist.
ujmParticipantmotchah11: If 100 Kollel Yungerleit are sufficient to compose a valid Heter Meah Rabbonim, it would seem rather easily obtainable by (hypothetically, to take one of any number of possibilities) getting 98 Kollel Yungerleit in BMG (NJ) to sign alongside a Kollel Yungerman from Torah Vodass (NY) and a Kollel Yungerman from the Baltimore Kollel (MD). Even if only 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 asked to sign agreed to, it could be put together relatively quickly by asking several hundred Yungerleit to sign (all under one Kollel roof) until you reach the requisite one hundred.
ujmParticipantSpeak to Human Resources at Agri Star.
ujmParticipantAAQ: German Jewry had a greater drop out rate (to Reform, secularism and Christianity) than Eastern European Jewry.
ujmParticipantAccording to the Mechaber in Shulchan Aruch, the Cherem automatically was set to expire in the Hebrew year 5000 (around 1240 CE, as gadolha pointed out). When I was a child I also heard the 1000 year (after it started) expiration timeframe, but I’m not sure where that comes from.
July 2, 2022 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm in reply to: The solution to the shidduch crisis in one easy step! #2102460ujmParticipantAAQ: you didn’t have to ruin the joke.
ujmParticipantUnder CRG, what is the minimum number of countries a Heter Meah Rabbonim requires signatories from? Is one signatory from a country sufficient to count that as one of the minimum number of countries? What is considered a “country”, in reference to the requirements for a HMR, to be counted as one of the minimum number thereof (i.e. would the US and Canada be counted as two towards it; or would even two different States within the US be counted as two separate “countries” for this purpose?)
Is any person with Smicha (even if not a pulpit rabbi) qualified to be one of the hundred signatories (otherwise what are the qualifications to be a signatory)? And what are the qualifications where a HMR can be issued altogether?
July 1, 2022 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm in reply to: The solution to the shidduch crisis in one easy step! #2102436ujmParticipantWolf: Are you trying to tell us that one wife is half the punishment?
ujmParticipantHaving State Legislatures change the electoral college vote is not only completely legal but is their constitutional right.
ujmParticipanthuju: You need updated lessons in energy geopolitics. Yes, American supplies of both oil and gas very much DO impact the spot pricing on the international markets. The U.S. now holds more recoverable oil reserves than Saudi Arabia and Russia. You are still steeped in the oil mindset of 10+ years ago. America, especially since fracking, has taken the markets by storm. And the more America produces (something Democrats are keen on keeping America down on), the lower international prices will be.
Time to drill in Alaska’s ANWR arctic. And build Keystone. As Republicans attempted to accomplish well over a decade ago (ANWR multiple decades ago), but faced Democrat impediments.
ujmParticipantRav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L denounced college in a Teshuva, and in a famous speech delivered to his students, published under the title “The Counsel of the Wicked” (Vaad LeHaromas Keren HaTorah, New York, 1978). There he reiterates that everyone has an obligation to become great in Torah, we should not care so much about Cadillacs (yes, this was said in the “olden days”), and that learning Torah is what we should be pursuing, not secular stuff. He says in America you do not need college to make a parnassa, and we should be willing to live on little, not a lot, for the sake of Torah, and that R. Nehuray’s statement of abandoning all skills in favor of Torah applies all that more today that we live in a country where you can make a parnassa without college, with no miracles needed.
As an aside, the standard of livelihood required is bare minimum. “Kach hi darkah shel torah – pas b’melach tochal etc.” – Bread, salt and water – if you have that, you have parnasah.
There is a tape available in many Seforim stores called “The prohibition to learn in Colleges” (Yiddish), which contains addresses by Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L and Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L condemning college.
ujmParticipantThe Rambam writes that a “working person” is someone who learns 8 hours a day and works 3 hours A day. Not works 9am to 5pm.
ujmParticipantAnd bbPress for the Coffee Room.
ujmParticipantPass the popcorn, please.
ujmParticipantThe Satmar Rebbe, among a number of other Gedolei Yisroel, refused to allow himself to be photographed.
ujmParticipantmoishala: President Trump, just like ever American, had every right constitutionally under the First Amendment, guarantees of free speech to lead a public demonstration, protest and rally at the Capitol.
June 28, 2022 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm in reply to: The yeshiva world coffee room and its illustrious history #2101114ujmParticipantIt all started in the Summer of 2008.
ujmParticipantHar Sinai
ujmParticipantRetirement is one of the leading causes of death. Raising the age of (or, better, eliminating) retirement is one of the most unheralded methods to increase life expectancy.
ujmParticipantDofi: We Jews ARE the natives of ALL parts of Eretz Yisroel, despite you so-called “Palestinians” claims to be the natives.
edit
ujmParticipantfunny
June 24, 2022 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm in reply to: Supreme Court Rules – States Can Ban Abortion #2100155ujmParticipantAAQ: The question is whether the increasing population in red states are coming from blue state voters, diluting the red state voting base.
ujmParticipantSouthern Lebanon and Jordan are both parts of Eretz Yisroel with inexpensive housing.
June 24, 2022 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm in reply to: Supreme Court Rules – States Can Ban Abortion #2100117ujmParticipantReb Eliezer, rape and incest is no more an excuse for abortion than if she became pregnant as a result of her immorality.
June 24, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm in reply to: Supreme Court Rules – States Can Ban Abortion #2100077ujmParticipantIn 13 States abortion is illegal effective today. Anyone commiting an abortion in those states will find themselves imprisoned.
ujmParticipantAre you willing to move to the other side of the Green Line?
June 24, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm in reply to: Supreme Court Rules – States Can Ban Abortion #2100036June 24, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm in reply to: Supreme Court Rules – States Can Ban Abortion #2100016ujmParticipantBaruch Hashem!
ujmParticipantubiq, Mein Teire Talmid, as you know I’ve been following you’re divrei chochma here for many years. And I must say, this comment of yours I shepped more nachos from than any before.
ujmParticipantShould I get a Glock 19 or a Glock 43?
Anyone with experience please share your feedback and reviews of the different competitive options that are best.
ujmParticipantWhen I was a kid, I walked to school uphill both ways in the snow, with no shoes or jacket.
ujmParticipantI provided the first hand shidduch story, as related directly by the protagonist himself.
ujmParticipantAAQ: He was far from being a boki in Torah.
ujmParticipantRonald has no chance against Donald in the Republican primary, if it comes to that. And he knows it.
ujmParticipantObama never stopped politicking after he left office.
DeSantis would make an excellent President.
ujmParticipantParenting style in the US was also like that until about 40 years ago.
In any event, in the US Yidden parent very differently than American goyim. And even within frum communities you’ll find vastly different parenting styles between Williamsburg compared to Lakewood compared to Five Towns.
ujmParticipant14 is nearly 20?
ujmParticipantThe coffee room started in 2008.
ujmParticipantIf you’re going to give the analysis greater weight given his vastly greater intellectual understanding of the underlying science, then you’ll need to put Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking way ahead of him
ujmParticipantTendler met his wife in the New York Public Library. He then kept coming back there to meet her. He himself explained this in an interview published in the YU Commentator. By time Rav Moshe got wind of it, he didn’t have too much influence over who she chose to marry.
ujmParticipantThe Moetzes itself chooses which new Rabbonim to invite into it. It isn’t the lay board making any such decisions.
ujmParticipantIs there a reason anyone took the OP seriously?
ujmParticipantTendler has a demonstrated history of lying about his father in law’s positions. Even during his lifetime.
ujmParticipantThe main upside to a recession is that there is a virtually direct historical precedent that the party in power during a recession always loses the following election.
ujmParticipantObama stopped Keystone 10 years ago. If he hadn’t it would have been online today.
ujmParticipantDemocrats have also blocked drilling gas in Alaska’s ANWR arctic.
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