Always_Ask_Questions

My impression from posters here was that some club exist there for some time. But the letter posted above days that it is in litigation and doesn’t exist. Maybe difference is between grad school and undergrad yeshiva. It would help if people explain the facts before doing general statements.

Right, as when R Yohanan was missing Resh Lakish as hevrusa and rejected another one who was not asking kashiyos but just confirming what R Yohanan was saying.

If I am not mistaking him for someone, R Ovadia used to have erva issues when he & family lived in Mitzraim in one room. His wife would nurse under the table or something, so that not to interrupt his learning.

Rebe> to learn from your students you must teach them

isn’t it peshita? They are called “your students” because you teach them!?

Jackk,
so this seems to be a case of low self-esteem. You expect that others do not respect your opinions and, thus, you can post nonsense. You would do better by treating your words with more self-respect.

I do see that average Biden approval grew rapidly in the last month from the bottom 37% back to 42% that he had back in Nov 2021. Seems that student loan giveaway bought some votes. There are 2 more months, so need $2T more to give away.

This thread reminds me of several blind wise men describing an elephant. It seems that most people here, including me, never studied there or know many who did. so, discussion is based on news items or on rumors what gedolim said/thought about it. Maybe, someone can find an actual YU-er and interview him/her?

I can easily see, and some people here mention this also, that the answer may depend on who we are talking about. Maybe R Kotler’s students do not need YU, some others might need Landers. But possibly those who go to modern day schools and public schools are already trained enough to survive that. I know of one family where kids went to a modern school and when they planned to go to YU, their classmates looked down at them as they all were going to Ivies.

according to Marvin Schick, 2012 blog>
As I was standing outside the home of Rav Shneuer Kotler during shiva on a brutally hot early July night in Lakewood, a car pulled up and two men got out. They opened the back door and virtually carried Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik into the house. He was extremely frail and in declining health. I went inside and heard him say to Rav Malkiel Kotler, “I was a friend of your grandfather, I was a friend of your father and, im yirtzeh Hashem, I will be your friend.”
…
It is known that Rav Aharon did not have a favorable view of Yeshiva University. I was told that in his 1930s fundraising trip here, he gave shiurim at Yeshiva and was not happy about what he saw.
…
shortly after the Second World War a serious effort was made by officials at Torah Vodaath and Chaim Berlin to establish a joint university-level academic program that would take place in a yeshiva setting, the intent being to deter their students from attending Brooklyn College in the evening after the mandatory two sedarim in the Beth Medrash. When Rav Aharon heard of this initiative, he immediately instructed that it be abandoned and it was abandoned.

During the fervid 1953 battle over the draft of girls into military service in Israel, Rav Aharon reached out to Rav Soloveitchik, hoping that he would come out publicly against Ben-Gurion’s decree. There was a meeting at Rav Mendel Zaks’ apartment in Manhattan. Rabbi Dov Ber Weinberger drove Rav Aharon to the meeting and he was witness to what happened. …
After more than a half hour of futile effort to get Rav Soloveitchik to publicly oppose gius banos, Rav Aharon came up with the following brilliancy, of course in Yiddish. He said, Bostoner Rav, imagine that instead of the three of us discussing this issue, there were another three who were judging the appropriateness of drafting girls into military service. Instead of the Bostoner Rav, there was your zeyde, Reb Chaim. Instead of the Radiner Rosh Yeshiva, there was your father-in-law, the Chafetz Chaim. Instead of me, there was my father-in-law, Rav Iser Zalman Meltzer. Bostoner Rav, what would your zeyde have said? This masterstroke did not result in a shift in Rav Soloveitchik’s position. He got up and said that he had to leave, “Kletsker Rosh Yeshiva and Radiner Rosh Yeshiva, a gutten tag” and left.

in 1954 or 1955, Rav Aharon reached out again to him and enlisted him in efforts to raise funds for Chinuch Atzmai. The high point came at the first Chinuch Atzmai dinner where Rav Soloveitchik made the most remarkable speech I have ever heard. After explaining why though he is a Mizrachist he is helping Chinuch Atzmai, Rav Soloveitchik spoke warmly about Stephen Klein, Chinuch Atzmai’s chairman and the president of Barton’s Candy. He then lavished praise on Rav Aharon, comparing him in elaborate language, first to the Vilna Gaon, then to Rav Akiva Eger and finally to his zeide, Rav Chaim. I was standing directly behind Rav Aharon as Rav Soloveitchik spoke and as each of these comparisons were made, Rav Aharon tugged at Rav Soloveitchik’s jacket with one hand and implored him to stop and with the other hand he pounded on the table and intoned repeatedly, “Das iz nisht emes, das iz nisht emes.” As I looked more closely at Rav Aharon, I saw that he was crying.

I was just a curious observer of this discussion. That President was not liberal and the speaker was close enough to a Nazi – Farrakhan. I am not trying to argue this or that position, just pointing out that there are different approaches here from the American perspective.

As to Landers college, I think it is great that we are having more different learning institutions. Jewish tradition is to have teachers competing for students.

But please stop counting which school has more Torah learning, this is just unseemly in general, and especially in current circumstances. We have 4 mln American Jews on the way to total assimilation. If some of them can find a place where they can learn according to their level, B’H.

Avram> So this is another example of illegal activity,
> What we are debating is the idea of taking benefits that one is legally entitled to, but you feel is avoidable

good, so we have a lot we agree on. I presume you include all cases where someone works for cash, etc. As you see from the shaila I posted, not everyone is cler on this. In the related discussion, I saw someone mentioning that apparently IRS would not take Israeli yeshiva letter as a proof of income in Israel, but would take from any other business. Apparently, this is based on their experience ..

But let’s analyze the remaining disagreements. Here are some examples, let me know what you think:

1) cases where legal requirements are light and avoidable. I think this would be when recipient of aid is required/expected to look for a job. I don’t know whether they ask, but it might be possible to show 5 letters you mailed last week to satisfy inspectors. I don’t think one needs a BA to get a job, I am sure anyone capable of learning a blatt of gemora can do some productive job.

2) where legal requirements are complicated and rarely enforced. This is what Trump’s accountant just pleaded to – T was “donating” money to his einekle school in lieu of tuition, if I understand it correctly. Another would be when school does not pay salary and teachers do not pay tuition. Not saying it is wrong, but it is not clear for a layman whether this is ok also.

3) where there are no legal requirements, like recent food giveaways. I don’t really know what other benefits are given that do not expect people to look for a job.

in my views, somewhere down the list, it may be OK to take, especially if you have a halachic authority that overrides the references I gave above (nobody brought those to the contrary so far, I’d love to see those), but surely a baal middos should avoid all. Again, presuming he is not actually in need.

Syag > I know you have claimed you homeschool, which of course is truancy and neglect

And if I were neglecting the kids, it would be really good if you were reminding me about that and annoying me. It would be so easy to ignore my problems – who cares about some Yid somewhere. But I am sure, people here would not hesitate to bring up things that they think I do wrong, hopefully with good arguments that will convince me to be better, as we are all orevim ze mize.

So, to answer this question: my state legally allows homeschooling, requiring parents to file a study plan with them (which I think most people ignore). I am, though, not doing that. My school-age kids are in a public online school, were in private Jewish online before and in non-modern Jewish schools before that. Average family GPA is above 4.0, so B’H, they are not in total neglect. Those in college also do fine so far. This is just so that you don’t worry, I hope this is not ayn hara, as we do not know each other personally.

Boruch dayan haemes. Let your family continue in the path of your bubbe and all your illustrious family that we were zoche to learn about from CTL.

Here is one related teshuva I found:
Question: Someone wishes to make aliya to Eretz Yisrael (to fulfill the mitzvah of settling the land of Israel) but has financial difficulties, and is only able to come if he does not inform the United States Government about his income, which many people do regularly, is it permitted for him to do so or not?

Response: I heard from HaGaon Y.S. Elyashiv shlita that it is certainly prohibited to do so (which prohibited because of dina d’malchusa) and it is prohibited even if he will never be able to make aliya to Eretz Yisrael afterwards.

Syag > who does so to those levels in regard to other people’s spending.

Syag, first we are not discussing spending, we are discussing taking. 2nd, yes, I am not taking that type of money myself. I once took welfare funds for 2 months when I needed them, and then took the first appropriate job I found. It did not occur to me to continue telling the office that I can’t find a job.

Avram > If necessary, my local rav would most likely look to the Igros Moshe for that type of shaila. And bringing Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L for an American shaila is not going psak shopping.

Sure! I am just saying that in a personal subject like that, I would not dare look up Igros Moshe myself. What if then I find out that someone else is more machmir, or more meikil. Or maybe I should stop looking after IM as it looks meikel enough. Just saying, this is where you want to depend on a local Rav (and follow local minhag anyway). Not arguing on IM or anything.

jackk, beautiful vort. Made me think – to what degree this holds. Remembering halakha is less critical our days when you can look it up (does not mean that you should not keep things in your head, but not to the degree of being upset at learning something later in life). Understanding becomes more important. I think in our days, many have the opposite problem: “learning” many things as a kid so well that he does not review it again from a more mature standpoint

We also see a lot of retirements that started earlier during covid and still continue. It is understandable that those close to retirement chose to shift a couple of years earlier than risk daily exposure. Still, some of them might be hesitant at 60, but might have worked till 80 otherwise. Lots of people contemplate retirement every year but still continue. A possible contributing factor is decrease in private practices as government regulation forced them to sell to big hospitals, and a need to spend most of the time typing in the computer instead of looking at the patient.

huju, adaraba, anything that is worth saying once, is worth saying twice

spot on> There are many avenues Hashem may take for the Geulah. It need not come about through the state.

I totally agree, and I am also not comfortable with people publicly davening with words asserting certain status. How do they know?! On the other hand, the hope and aspiration are entirely understandable and it is not natural to ignore such a tremendous change in Jewish life as a whole country populated by Jews in EY. Just go stand near (not under) Arc of Titus in Rome to see IVDAEA CAPTA written there and laugh at dead Romans (like R Shapiro z’L did in 1967 on the way back from 6-day war).

Avira > for a man to marry a wan from a less well-to-do background.

oi vei. To the intended point: girls would exchange dresses by Tu B’Av, but to a degree – king’s daughter with Kohen Gadol’s … same here – “less well to do” … So, a guy with 10 shoe stores should marry someone with 2 shoe stores.

Now, you can ask – if every man marries “less well to do”, what is gonna happen with smartest/richest girls and poorest boys?! A possible answer is – this advise is addressed to the top layer of Talmidei Chachamim (who learn this Gemora). Now, it is a biological fact that male species have more variability than female. Ie. there are more super-smart men and super-stupid men, super-angry and super-calm … [you may find this observation to explain a lot of things in life …] So, the top level of T’Ch need to go a little lower, but a below-average men will probably get wives that are smarter than them. May be a punishment to both.

I think this meets definition of a monopoly. Not all industries are easy for competition, but less and less so. We used to have phone monopoly. At&t produced wonderful phones that attached beautifully to the wall and always worked. Nobody wants them anymore somehow/ Do you think if AT&T stayed a monopoly we would have phones in the pockets, sending pictures and messages around, for better or worse? Similar problems are in defense. In all cases, if you focus on market solutions, you can always find some ideas to try, and from experience, there is “nothing to lose”. For example, there is an idea of having insurance work across state lines. Who can be against it? (except the monopolists).

Avria, Zushy, I am not questioning any stories, all I am saying that the pilot story is questioned because some of Teimeni Jews ended with a tragedy. This is like saying that Netziv was wrong protesting Russian infiltration of the Volozhin yeshiva because Russian revolution would soon sweep away both the Czar and the yeshivos. “Oh, you know Talmidei Chachamim who survived and went to other countries?! So, you don’t care about all those Jews who were killed in Russia” This is clearly a silly argument because you can point to all yeshivos that came out of Volozhin derech, but as you don’t know many Teimenims and they all one big news-story for you. They are way above just a reason for your pity and attack weapon against your enemy. Follow Menachem Begin who when visiting Sephardim refugees, instead of pitying them (affirmative action style), appealed to their higher side – you are the people who came from Rambam, etc.

> Do you have any idea how insulting your statements are to the survivors of spiritual murder

the question is based on a premise that a Jew saved from Yemen had surely went to gehinom, effort wasted. I am saying this premise is wrong, I am not making fun of anyone. a de raba, he is treating people as abstract material for the political stories. Would you similarly say that it was not worth liberating Jews from Nazi camps or demonstrating for Soviet Jews because a sizeable number of those assimilated when freed?

No wonder Mordecai lost his Sanhedrin rank after getting involved in politics. Making sholom between Israel and several of it’s enemies is not enough zechut to allow for some other disagreements?! This is not good enough even if double standard is your only one

This discussion raises a question. It is considered a mitzvah in this country to minimize taxes paid, take all possible deductions, hopefully stopping before gray area… This is not same as using services for poor, hope you are, but let me know.

These items are comingling more and more, and on purpose. Clinton initiated “credits” that exceed taxes paid which others called disguised welfare, while proponents counted against payroll taxes paid elsewhere… By now, you get so many transfer payments that it is hard to track. For example, what is taking a loan to get a degree and then enrolling into Obama’s low payment program that was just enhanced and get loans cancelled. Is this kosher, or only because everyone is doing it. As little girl retorted to r Yehoshua regarding a shortcut through a field, gazlanim like you made it

There were different nonJews, some would be motivated by proselytizing, others for saving lives … There are hard cases,.. one of my relatives left her blonde son with a neighbor, telling her that if something happens with the boy she’ll report the neighbors Jewish husband …. The boy survived