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I agree with this. I would also expect a Chatholic Church type investigation into YU. I would not be shocked if R’ Norman Lamm will have to give up his pension and/or settle in a lawsuit.
The difference between that & the other case is that YU will probably cooperate, while the other sect has acted like the Mafia by threatening, attempting to bribe & denounced the victim, so that no one else dares speak up.
If we have so many rich Jews why do Yeshivos and organizations have such a hard time staying afloat?
When the yeshivos open the books, and are not so “exclusive”, then people will give more. Now they believe that the money is better spent on themselves than on others who don’t need it. Especially if the rich man’s child would never be accepted.
HaKatan/Joseph?:
whereas traditional orthodox tout absolute fidelity to halacha and daas Torah as their banner.
Just make sure to exclude those who do not have fidelity to Halacha (such as the Sect that has been in the news recently). They are even more to the left than MO, as they completely disregard Halachos. (I’ll leave it at that)
Or to Paraphrase yourself:
“The Cult, starting from Rabbi “saved by Kastner the Zionist”, on the other hand, touts backwardness as a reason to do things differently whereas traditional orthodox tout absolute fidelity to halacha and daas Torah as their banner. Though, again, the Yetzer Hara is happy to target everyone.”
I’m still just so mad about the whole thing, to maintain Omerta and prefer that the abuser continues abusing (to the point where bribes are offered & threats are made), rather than making a Cheshbon Hanefesh and fixing what is wrong.
Although I am quite Yeshivish and tend to disagree with many of the more MO posters here on various issues, I always understood that they had a different view than mine and could respect that. Especially when it came to the subject of child abuse.
It was therefore absolutely shocking to me how “pareve” some of the oh-so-vehement-anti-abuse posters were once the subject was YU.
I agree with this. I would also expect a Chatholic Church type investigation into YU. I would not be shocked if R’ Norman Lamm will have to give up his pension and/or settle in a lawsuit.
The difference between that & the other case is that YU will probably cooperate, while the other sect has acted like the Mafia by threatening, attempting to bribe & denounced the victim, so that no one else dares speak up.
A .22? What, in case a squirrel comes attacking?
It would have been about as helpful against this guy as a spitball.
Second this. Spitting would probably be more effective than a .22. Besides, a pistol (especially a lady’s pistol) in general is useless in this sort of situation. A 12 gauge loaded with double-aught should do it, or a nice Mosin-Nagant with a telescopic sight (of course, the principal would need to be trained in its use) for longer distances or hostage situations.
But don’t you just love the guys who say, “Not to mention . . .” and then they go right away and mention it!
🙂
+1 as well. We can only hope as this issue becomes more open, that people & children will know what to avoid.
When a terrible person gets convicted of a crime, yes, I will be happy.
I’m not happy. I wish that it would have never been committed.
Similar to what Beruriah said regarding Ganavim.
I’m not sure you want to vilify a community. L”H of a tzibur is a grave, severe sin. (Now you have to make a mass mailing begging mechila.. “Hello this is a recording on behalf of gavra_at_work, I beg your mechila, press 1 to be mochel..)
I thought about it before I submitted, and respectfully disagree. If they believe their Shittos are correct, then Kol HaKavod to them. However, they can’t make the claim that they are “authentic Yiddishkeit”. Those who are machshiv Limud HaTorah (not who your great uncle or grandfather was) are the real torch carriers of the Ribbono Shel Olam. Those who try to add things other than Torah as “mitzvos” (such as the Denier number of stockings) have added to Yiddishkeit what Hashem has not asked.
However, you are correct that certain comments made by a certain “great nephew” have gotten me livid. When he apologizes to whom he slandered in public, I will do the same (even though I believe there is no Halachic reason for me to do so).
To my observation, it seems the reverse is true. At least to me it seems that the Yeshivish Olam is always being attacked. (Could be wrong)
However I’m so against to mud slinging and bashing. How I wish it would stop.
Also, because the posters here claiming to be Yeshivish are giving actually Yeshivish people IRL a bad name.
These have to be read together. The “Normal” Yeshivish (such as our Gedolim, and people who are Ovdei Hashem) are not criticized. It is those who “overlook” Halacha who are, especially when someone tried to promote such anti-halacha activity.
Boruch Dayan Emes.
interestingly enough, this hutra bi’tizbura business w/ regard to the menorah is suspect- if you look at the gemara in yuma, it brings ribuyim or learns out all things that have it. the menorah wasnt a korban. whats pshat in the kasha mitchila??
Do I know you? I was about to mention the same. There seems to be no reason why you can’t light with Tamei Oil!
Rav Eibshitz actually says regarding this something very difficult, that this is why Chanuka is the Yom Tov of Torah SheBaal Peh. Hashem was telling us through the Nes that the oil of the Menorah MUST be Tahor, even though there is no Remez in Torah SheBKsav for such a thing. Very difficult to understand.
If there are people in leadership positions especially on the right, especially whom you have serious issues with, this is not the forum to express those positions. Even if they are correct.
Its strange, because I thought the same thing, until I realized the truth. These sects are not to the “right”, but are really “left”. They disregard Offen Halachos of Zmanim. They don’t have any qualms in being Gonev Da’as Briyos (which is Assur Leculei Alma to anyone) or holding that Tax fraud is Muttar (as per his own testimony!!!), which is neged Offen Gemaros and Shulchan Aruch. Their shittos were created 200-300 years ago, while ours of Halacha & Limud HaTorah have been around for thousands of years!
They are the “leftists” who have their own agenda to change Yiddishkeit from our true Mesora all the way back to Moshe Rabbainu!!
And you want to know the scary part? They (so far) have been succeding. Bezras Hahaem this will be a setback to their anti-Torah ideas, and their sect leader, who helps us understand how it could be that:
?? ??????????? ???-???????? ?????, ???? ????????? ????? ?????: ???? ????????? ?????? ????? ???-???????, ????????? ??????–????, ???????? ??????. ?? ???? ?????????, ????????; ???????, ????????? ????????????, ?????? ?????????, ????.
P.S. The Vilna Gaon agreed with me.
The famous “holier than thou attitude..”, “dina d’malchuta..”, “gemutlichkeit..”. Or find any sensational dirt.
Lets not throw out Shmuel (the Amora) just because some people misunderstand what Dina Dimalchusa (not d’malchuta) means and its effect on Halacha. Dina Dimalchusa is Halacha, and as the Gemorah says many times, it is Assur to cheat on taxes (levied by the kingdom or country) because of it.
Because the other “opinions” are wrong. It isn’t like both sides are right, different minhagim, different approach, etc. We honestly believe the other practices are objectively wrong and an incorrect and invalid approach to yiddishkeit.
And that is true for the “right wing” as well, such as those sects who support abusers.
There is no reason to think he would go lure people from the streets and therefore needs to be put away for life. To make that jump is Keneged any Daas Torah.
That’s right, because he killed with an AK47 doesn’t mean if you give him a revolver instead of a loaded AK47 that he won’t shoot it.
If you want to trust your life to that, you really are a Chosid Shoite.
Health, kindly address why you think Weberman didnt have any interest in keeping Hilchos Yichud if he was so stringent on other Halachos, and why you think Satmar was ok with this?
Since her stockings were less than 90 Denier, she has a Din Goy. Yichud with a Goy is only a Takana of Hillel, who was an obvious Tzioni (since he traveled to Israel from Bavel), and the V’Yoel Moshe was M’vatel all Tzionish Takanas.
Pashut.
Were there any Hasidic Jews on the jury, or in the jury pool?
Chassidic Jews wouldn’t be caught dead in a jury pool. They would insist on a “religious objection”, so that they don’t have to associste with Goyim on the jury.
Besides, you would say “chassidic”. Who are you quoting?
With all due respect, I must raise strong objection to refer to animals as “family members”.
Only because they are furry. Your “family members” would probably have scales, before you gobble them up 🙂
I just actually follow Torah priniciples, not like others that it’s just mouth exercise!
To quote myself:
Chossid Shoite!!! He at the very least has the Din of a Safek Roidef, and everyone is mechuyav to be mefarsem the fact. Haven’t you heard of Gedaliah Ben Achikam?
Don’t get all “frum” trying to go kneged Halacha.
I can’t understand what you are thinking.
Look through Jewish history and you will find countless stories of great men who were imprisoned falsely by the goyish government after a trumped up show trial just as this case was.
I’ll comment to the Troll because this is a critical and showing point.
Satmar and the other “sects” (cults may be a better term) still believe that they are living a version of 19th century Europe. Goyim are only good for cheating them out of their money, but the Goyim are always looking for ways to hurt the Jews (specificly these sects. Other Jews aren’t real “Yidden”, their stockings aren’t thick enough!). It is an “Us vs. Them” mentality, which then justifies any illegal action. After all, “They” are out to get us.
Contrast that with the “Yeshivish” Olam (by that I mean the Gedolim like the Noveminsker, Rav Dovid Feinstein, and Rav Shmuel, as well as Rav Yaakov, Rav Moshe & Rav Ruderman in the previous generation) who work with the US goverment as a “Medinah shel Chessed”, and specificly (although they do fight for Yidden) DO NOT believe that the government is out to get Yidden.
Case in point, take a look at R’ Avi Shafran’s recent articles, which have heaped praise on Pres. Obama for his stance towards our brothers in Eretz Yisroel. Now imagine one of the sect leaders saying such a thing, it would (and could) never happen.
As a final thought here, if the Goyim only exist to cheat & rob, then it explains why tax and benefits fraud are muttar.
Halocho is covering knees, elbows, neckline (to whatever degree your Rav holds necessary). After that, it’s all subjective. Sure, women can wear clothes that conform with the letter of halocho and are nevertheless totally inappropriate, but that cannot be defined in any real way. So using terms such as long hanging hair or wobbly high heels is not particularly helpful to the discussion. You are attempting to define the indefinable, and, however hard you try, that just isn’t going to happen.
Halacha also includes Tova’as B’shuk / Vered. See Kesubos 72B. We all agree that there is no one answer as per what that includes, but we can also agree that it means dressing like a Zona. What a Zona dresses like can be up for discussion.
Until a person is found guilty IN A BEIS DIN AL PI EIDIM there is NO HETTER whatsoever to publicize his name and to presume that he is guilty,
Chossid Shoite!!! He at the very least has the Din of a Safek Roidef, and everyone is mechuyav to be mefarsem the fact. Haven’t you heard of Gedaliah Ben Achikam?
Don’t get all “frum” trying to go kneged Halacha.
You are as naive about Satmer as the unknown media who have absolutely have no idea what Chassidus or Satmer is all about!
So educate us. I could hear some good things about Satmar right now (besides for the usual “Bikur Cholim ladies”).
A lady should evaluate whether her clothing is sending an inappropriate message to a man that is not her husband. No I can’t predict the thoughts of every man, but I can know if I am dressed in a provocative way or an understated way or somewhere in the middle. In all cases the clothing is covering the parts required by halacha and is not tight, but for example long hanging hair, swinging in and out of her face, very high wobbly heels, heavy makeup are very likely to send an inappropriate message.
That is the message, the inappropriate message that I am speaking about.
What I mean by empowering, is instead of dicatating to others don’t wear this and this and that, focus on YOUR OWN IMPROVEMENT AND SENSTIVITY. People feel good about themselves when they look within themselves and have chosen on their own to improve instead of because others are criticizing them.
This is worth repeating. Ladies should not look like they are “available”. Simple as that (and yes, you cen be dressed “Tznius” even according to R’ Falk and still look “available”. It is a message being sent via clothing.)
I’ll agrre with everyone else, especially Wolf.
Still nothing. Forget it.
Then it should be easy to prove his innocence, as at all sessions (which he agrees he did have) there was an additional male (Yichud is with 2 females as well). I await the proof.
(Sorry for the misspeak)
There are no witnesses to any supposed infringement of yihud.
Then it should be easy to prove his innocence, as at all sessions (which he agrees he did have) there was an additional female (Yichud is with 2 males as well). I await the proof.
Is that enough of a reason to besmirch a person? Because of “usually”?
Chazal/Dovid Hamelech were Mesaken guidelines in to avoid situations such as in this trial (i.e. Hilchos YICHUD!). If this person chose not to follow Chazal, that is good reason to say “when there is smoke, there is fire”.
I’m going to take the opposite side.
I have heard from many, including B’shem Rabbi Mordechai Finkelman, that the absolute most critical part of dating for a guy is to make sure that he is attracted to the girl. In fact, it is a Gemorah (begining of the second perek of Keddushin), that the man must see the woman to marry her, to make sure that he is attracted.
That means, that the man SHOULD think on a date if he will appreciate all aspects of being married to this woman (V’Hamavin Yovin). If he will not, then he should drop her immediately.
P.S. Women should really do the same, but since physicality is less significant for women in most cases, it is less critical.
P.P.S. IMHO, part of the “divorce crisis” is the lack of attraction that occurs after the first 6 months, or after the first child. It really does solve most “couple” problems when you have a partner who you want to be with (also not from me, but from respected Rabbonim. I could quote the actual line, but the Mods would toss me for good (and rightfully so)).
The “A” doesn’t go to WTC. Only the “E” ends at the WTC.
You can walk underground from the Chambers St. stop – first to the 2&3 station @ Park Place and then onto the “E” station at WTC.
What I’ve done is gotten out at the Fulton St. Station (make sure you’re at the far west side) and walked a block above ground west to the WTC.
I’ll take your word for it. The map said they are near each other, and my way is still cheaper (which is the sole consideration that was posed). And Shanda about the PATH, huh? They take all that money and build a building no one wants.
By Foot.
If you insist on driving, then avoid the Verrazano Br. That is the expensive bridge.
If you really are looking for the “cheapest way”, I just did the research for you:
Take the Q10 from JFK to the A train at Lefferts Blvd (free transfer). (Cost: 2.25)
Then take that to the PATH @ WTC to Newark Penn station (Cost: 1.75)
From Newark Penn, take the #62 bus to Newark (Cost: 1.50)
Total Cost = 5.50
I don’t think you can beat that.
laron, I would agree with you, if not for my personal knowledge that this has been done in the past IN NYC due to overcrowding. If you are worried about unions, they would certainly perfer my solution than give money to non union workers in Yeshivos! There are provisions for paying overtime, and the unions (where the members would get a huge raise) would be thrilled to get all that money.
The state and the city would be forced into doing something radical.
As I have said before, they would simply split the school day into two sections of 8-1 & 1-6, and double the capacity (as was done when Yidden still sent to public school in the ’30s). The city would be thrilled if this would happen.
farrocks, what do they call their wives in such situations?
I was going to add, but this is a family site. I’ll just keep quiet.
Women should not be seen, heard, nor spoken about.
None the less, you are a sight for sore eyes! (Although Ittisa says she hears from you now & then).
Communities like Elizabeth, NJ do this to some extent. In Elizabeth, everything is under the JEC umbrella, headed by R’ Teitz shlita. The schools, shuls, etc. are all under one organization.
That would mean that all members of the shuls could attend the various schools (Whereas in Elizabeth, I imagine there is only one school). That is obviously not going to happen until Moshiach comes.
If there was a shadchanim crisis, then the market would react and more people would enter the business due to the additional pay offered.
There must be a sufficent quantity of shaddchanim, as this has not happened.
farrocks – as i mentioned earlier, i prefer that my tax money go to my brothers/sisters rather than others who just sit back on their lazy behinds.
An assumption that the two are not one and the same will probably turn out false.
Carry rolls of Quarters. There is a Rabbi Bender story about that as well.
That’s why the Frum Lady, is a tramp!
(To paraphrase Don Imus)
Tochacha should never be given in this day and age, as we don’t know how to give it without adding in our personal Negius, which makes the Tochacha an Avaira. Perhaps someone like the Chofetz Chaim could have given Tochacha, but (as can be seen here and elsewhere) not others.
Joe: Although everyone will agree that what is being done is incorrect, your suggestion will only hurt your cause. Ezehu Chacham HaRoeh Es Hanolad.
I would suggest a Kosher Mezzuza, and you go “help” them put it up properly so that the party can get a Mitzva. As we know, Mitzva Goreres Mitzva, so that could start the path.
Is Ittisa considering brandishing the area from the knee to the torso?
No. She was reviewing Hilchos Tznius and couldn’t find a source as per why sleeves ARE allowed, and if they are, why aren’t loose pants with a long blouse (like the Muslims wear). I had my ideas why, but wanted to get yours.
Bump.
Ittisa is asking me if I have a source why the area from the knee to the torso is any different then the area from the elbow to the shoulder. Anyone have anything off the top of their heads?
I have an issue with any website that allows “Jimmy Savile” as a screen name.
Period.
You should be embarrassed.
To quote Rabbi Slifkin:
1. It is heretical to believe that God possesses form.
2. Rashi was a Torah scholar of inconceivable greatness.
3. Hence Rashi could not have believed that God possesses
form.
Imagine a parent saying i will pay your rent but only if you live in a particular place? i will pay tuition but only in a certain school. i accept that this is not quite the same, but any parent who decides things for their grandchildren is overstepping her boundaries.
Oomis, and if the money was so that your child could live in Iran and/or go to Our Lady of Grace High, I think you would reconsider.
No one is responsible to support anyone. If someone decides out of the goodness of their heart, or in an attempt to direct their children/grandchildren on what they believe is the right path, to offer an incentive, the couple/parents are within rights to refuse such incentive. There is nothing wrong with it being offered.
In this case, the grandparent is allowed to buy shoes, but if the parents don’t like them, they can always resell them on E-bay.
Rashi could not understand how R’ Chisda could be happy if he had no sons. It seems like Rashi wasn’t the happiest about having only daughters.
Except that Bava Basra has Rashbam, not Rashi, from the third perek on, this would have been cute.