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Wow, to hear such words from one who purports to be Jewish and Shomer Mitzvos!!!
Your blaming of Israel for all the problems of the Middle East makes you a Malshin. Your proposal to take millions of Jews who enjoy some sovereignty and submit them to the sovereignty of any non Jewish state makes you a Moser.
Perhaps we are Mehuyav to tear kriah upon such words, just like they tore kriah on the words of Ravshaka.
Fortunately such Chutzpa against the Jewish People does not flow in my shul or in any shul in my city.
Such Chutzpa against the Jewish People is in effect chutzpa against He who chose the Jewish people.
Blaming Israel for all the problems of the Middle East is the Blood Libel of the 21th Century.
Certainly harisus nearim harisus.
Anyone calling for harisus today is in the category of nearim.
There are those in this thread that are energized by a desire to fulfill a verse they read twice a day.
On the other hand there are those who are energized by extreme Chumros. They want a Judaism with such a high bar that only the most dedicated and pure will be able to pass.
The underlying concept of the “Shalosh Shevuos” was that accepting the realities of power and being good citizens was a key to survival for the Torah community in the last 2500 years.
Now it has become a fine tuned tool for demonizing Zionism and Israel by the new Anti-Zionist religion. The Anti-Zionists are much more interested in bashing Israel than in being good citizens.
I am sure that the Ayatollahs in Iran are willing to pay good money to these Anti-Zionists to continue to spew their hate. Health’s writings alone in this coffee room are probably worth a few hundred thousand dollars to the Ayatollahs.
I do not know where the truth lies here.
But I do know that Tznius Glasses would sell much better than Tzniut Glasses.
“almost e/o here is drunk with the Zionist booze”
Maybe we are the sober ones and you are drunk on Anti-Zionism.
The Anti-Zionists have elevated “Zionism” to some form of evil far beyond the traditional view of Amalek, and more akin to the devil in some other religions.
The Islamic fanatics are murderous because of their own inherent evil. How dare you blame the Zionists for the deliberate evil of the Islamic fanatics. Are you going to defend these murderers in the Heavenly Court? If yes, then we have have Samael the Sar of Esav in the YWN Coffeeroom.
Health, you sound like the prosecuting angel against those who live there.
“kochi ve’otzem yadi” From last week’s Parsha:
The Torah mentions about such such thinking, but does not equate it with the worst sins as the Anti-Zionists do. The Torah follows and says that one must remember that G-d gave you the power. No negatives are mentioned.
Shortly afterwards the Torah uses actual negatives with regards to those who view themselves as righteous.
IT professionals generally have at least a Bachelor’s degree; and they are harder to find than people for the 10 jobs listed above. Hence, when they ask to take Shabbos off, their request is more likely to be granted. A large part of the pay for these 10 jobs listed above comes from their willingness to work weekends.
Flatbush Dude, most of those jobs you listed involve being willing and able to work on Shabbos. Trucks, airplanes and elevators operate on Shabbos here in the US. Most legal and accounting problems generally can wait for Monday morning.
We have just been thru a Tisha B’Av and someone is still using the screen name Csar. If you know anything about Jewish history in Russia and about the 25 years of forced conscription the word Csar means SHMAD.
“I’m talking people who haven’t got a clue what “vacation” means or what “bein hazmanim” stands for and where kids have never heard of the word “camp”. “
Wow, you are describing a place far more intense than the Slobodka Yeshiva in Europe. Moshe Rabeinu lasted in such a place for only 40 days.
“Being (even marginally) protected from the elements by them inherently counts as a benefit, even if it’s very hot out.”
The shirt and undershirt each provide better such protection than the 4 cornered garment. Wearing another layer when it is very hot is akin to eating when you are completely “stuffed” (Achilah Gasah).
No fulfillment of Afikomen on Pesach Seder night and no major violation of Yom Kippur
We are getting “off thread”.
In order to be Mechuyav (obligated) in the Mitzvah of Tzitzis you have to get some enjoyment from the 4 cornered beged (article of clothing) itself.
Sam2, the down side of this is that by dressing non doctors in the doctor’s white coat you destroy the symbol and status of the white coat. Hence, you may motivate some students, but damage the profession.
I recall in 1973, at Kol Torah a “Litvishe” yeshiva that I was informed that the Bal Shachris and Bal Mussaf were called to the front before Mincha.
The majority of the Torah community have accepted reality of the Jewish State and are trying to work within the system as good citizens. Being good citizens and accepting realities have been keys to survival of the Torah community for the last 2500 years. On the present issue, I fully expect a negotiated solution that both meet the needs of the community and state will be reached.
Choppy, from your comments it appears that you do not accept the reality of a Jewish State. For you and the Torah community it is best that you relocate to some place that you accept the realities of power. Otherwise the whole Torah community gets “painted” with suspicion of disloyalty; and in turn their negotiating position is weakened.
“and consider it a punishment
It is – B’zeias apecha tochal lechem is a curse.
they certainly do not look positively upon it as a a mitzva asseh in the same vain as they do putting on Tfillin”
The need to wear clothing was another consequence Adam’s sin.
Perhaps with every piece of clothing we put on we should sigh, “Oy because of Adam’s sin I have to put on this item. Oy, Oy, Oy.”
“is in the same category as murder.”
wrong:
The prescribed penalty is not the only dimension in which sins are categorized.
With Murder there is a much greater obligation for Bais Din to prevent and investigate. The Mitzvah of “Egla Arufa” teaches this.
With Murder there is a penalty of Exile (until the High priest dies) for non intentional violations. With other sins a sacrifice of a lamb or kid will suffice.
ZeesKite, you have stirred up the right wing regulars.
One has taken a screen name which was the title of some of the worst oppressors of Jews in history.
The other has spewed standard right wing kefira which may constitute Blasphemy for which one is obligated to tear Kri-a.
Back to your point, historically the Torah Way has been to be good citizens and fly the flag of the country on its Independence Day. The Ponovez Yeshiva did so when it was in Europe and does so in Israel. The Nut Kases come out and protest each year like clockwork.
Do Black Hats require any special Kavana’s (spiritual intentions) when being made?
This question needs to be directed to backhatwannabe who is posting on a related thread.
If yes, then do these intentions need to be in French for the Hats to be sold in Montreal?
If the only men in the world available to your daughters were the sons of Moshe Rabeinu and the sons of Korach….
“via our parents’ obligation to support Torah”
“others have parents who cannot meet their obligation (I don’t speak of those who refuse to meet it, they have to answer to Hashem).”
WOW. You have created a hard and fast obligation on parents to support their married children in Kollel as long as possible. How much mesiras nefesh does this fixed obligation require?
I want to create an obligation on zealous right wingers who have been told by their Daas Torah to leave Kollel and go to work to do so without complaining or murmuring.
This is consistent with the Hashkafa of the Right Wing that any mumuring against Daas Torah is a great sin.
Those who learn in Kollel and recognize that they are unusually fortunate to have the needed support and are Makir Tov to all their benefactors will enhance Kavod HaTorah.
“and as one who was also forced out I refuse to join with anyone who makes light of it.”
Loyal Jew, your are complaining about a Torah mandated obligation to support your family.
“I personally will know enough Torah to be confident to go into the world in around 40-50 years!”
Can your wife whom the Torah commands you to support wait that long?
Baaaa.
It is the Beged that smells of sheep, not the tzitzes.
No one wears tzitzes. You obtain a beged (article of clothes) with at least 4 corners with intent to wear in a manner that one normally wears clothing and to derive the pleasure of wearing such beged. This creates the obligation of tzitzes (when worn normally and for pleasure) which are then attached to the beged.
As far as I a know, all tzitzes actually used nowadays are of wool.
When I got a new Talis, I remember it initially smelled of sheep.
New suits also have this smell.
The problem with Fire and Brimstone is that it causes the student to contemplate what is beyond this world.
The Gemara in Chagiga warns against doing so.
4 great Torah Scholars in the time of the Mishnah did enter “beyond the curtain”.
One committed suicide, one went crazy, one became a heretic and one emerged unscathed (Rabbi Akiba).
25% success and 75% failure rates.
Not every mussar sefer is appropriate for general audiences.
There are plenty other ways to teach accountability and fear of sin without Fire and Brimstone.
The sections of Rebuke in the Torah focus on consequences in this world.
Dante was the biggest advocate of lecturing Fire and Brimstone to the masses.
The new generation has to be taught to be respectful and also that Shabbos is to be enjoyed.
“In the debate over sefirah, for example, the ikar has become how to determine exactly what is and isn’t music.”
For those in the “Loyal Jew” camp, no handling of metal utensils is allowed during the sefirah, and earplugs must be worn when going outside.
The worst texting addicts lose their ability to speak and listen and sink into the status of Cheresh.
You are all arguing about people who are long dead. What we have now are Sephardic Charedim, Dati-im and a huge number of Jews in Israel who were raised with very little religion. The language needed to reach out to them is Hebrew, not Yiddish.
Color pictures would be useful.
Perhaps not all the hats were black and shirts white???
Hebrew is the unifying language between Ashkenazim and Sephardim. My best understanding is that the the vast majority of Charedei Torah teaching in Israel (or Eretz Yisroel) is in Hebrew.
“Is it permitted, or is it like eating Matzoh before the Seder?”
This question is only relavent to nashim who do not have the daily obligation to learn.
Throughout history every technological advance has created spiritual opportunities and challenges. Even the shoes we wear.
Periods in time where technological advance ground to a halt such as during the “dark age” (1500 to 500 years ago), have not been the best of times for us as Jews.
Abraham and Issac got into disputes with the Philistines because of the Philistines’ objection to Abraham’s technological advance of water wells.
“HaKatan has the brocha of a mesorah that long predates zionism”
Zionism has 3000+ years of history. About 100 years ago some stripped G-d out of Zionism. In reaction to that Anti-Zionism was created.
“Most people bend the rules when playing Monopoly.”
Better Chinuch (education) against Gezel (theft and dishonesty) is not to do so.
“is anyone here seriously arguing that it’s OK to participate in goyish sports?”
Worse is arguing in a mixed blog (men & women) in a non Jewish language. Most sports are single sex with a minimal use of non Jewish language while playing.
“Standing for the sirens in EY might be another example.”
If you cannot stand respectfully when the siren blows, you should not wear any forms of clothing that may have non Jewish origins.
“I think Moshiach would have come if they hadn’t made the Medina.”
Bold assertions regarding Moshiah are very damaging.
Statements like this create an IRON WALL between many Jews and their Father in Heaven.
“Well, I think all Yidden would be there already with Moshiach, if not for the creation of the Medina.”
This is a very bold presumption.
Only a Tested Navi (prophet) can make such a statement.
“according to where the oilem is holding today, it’s assur not only because of what it might lead to but in and of itself. It’s not a chumra but rather the main consideration in any public event and sometimes even in our homes”
According to you, the “oilem” is empowered to write new torah at will and need not to connect it to something in the original Torah.
Who is this “oilem”? Do 10 powerful Kanoim constitute an “oilem”?
“and sometimes even in our homes”
That means women in the kitchen for Shabbos meals.
zahavasdad and derszoger,
Shammai’s view is being mis-represented.
He was dealing with a potential convert whom he saw as having unreasonable expectations. For someone who wants everything taught on “one foot” the 7 Noachide commandments could be his best path to spiritual growth.
Once someone is already Jewish, both Shammai and Hillel would agree that a much different approach is needed.
HaKatan, Loyal Jew, msseeker, derszoger, ymb and Health,
Which day or days will you be wearing the potato sacks this year, Thursday or Friday or both?
ZeesKite, as much as you would like to show your disdain for Zionism, wearing potato sacks is not proper for women.
“Shabbos guitar?”
Done already. The Maccabeats have figured out how to simulate musical instruments with their voices.
She is studying her husband”s Shas.
Not every Shas Yid is male.
“The heter-hunting in this thread isn’t pas.”
Correct, after listening to music one does not have to bench.
“A heter is needed so that you don’t have to walk out of a public place if someone turns on music.”
Wrong, there are always earplugs.
Loyal Jew, you are taking the original “slight mourning” and practically want to ban exercise that is too similar to dancing.
Wow! This is too much for the entire Jewish nation.
But the more spiritually attuned can always do more than just “slight” mourning. Tikkun Chatzos is a time honored practice for the more motivated.
From time to time some of the 10 Meraglim gain access to this coffeeroom.
Is really all the Torah is to you?
Generally the Torah way of life even with restrictions is with Simcha. Shabbos and Yom Tov become part of life and are not viewed as mesiras nefesh, but actually joyful times.
Those who say “it is hard to be a yid”, discourage their kids from keeping Torah and Mitzvos.
When one comes to a Rabbi with a problem about the restrictions on music during the Sefira or 3 weeks, there is usually some deep reason he or she needs the music. In the present day mood disorder problems are very common.
“where divorce rates among religious jewsish couples is skyrocketing”
Other factors such as financial issues and unemployed husbands may be playing a role.