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all the chofetz chaim yeshivos & kollelim are going in the end many more are going
mb10 & baltimore maven – i too am a maven and follow this closely
most of the yungeleit in out of town kollelim are very young & didnt come with 5 kids , and the handful of these kollelim have hardly grown there is no growing treend. detroit , chicago…they had open houses and recruiting…with hardly any success so who is it for … someone who/ or his wife doesnt like ny , or a deep need to feel counted. no one goes just for ” the hefty gelt”, baltimore is a bit diff than the others its closer and of course baltimore is an ir ve’am beyisroel but baltimore has almost nothing to do with the kollel & the kollel has almost nothing to do with baltimore its like a bungalow colony- as an example they dont even daven steadily at the 2 chassidsh shuls in baltimore ( ofcourse everyone is polite & helpful) but its a dif derech..to say it nicely they tolerate each other .secondly baltimore success is only because of the one tzadik who holds out the whole fort
finally as far as kicking the can down the road.. in todays world a yid cannot enter the workforce at 35 when you need a 100 plus to start years ago you had some goyim & a shmatte factory or diamonds..things have changed , dont take my word ask the yungeleit that are there if u should do it & put your own negios on the side ain chochom kbaal nisayonmb10- if you are chassidish, and family growing its time to move on to next stage of life not move out tand kick the can down the road… the out of town kollel model is generally not sustainable for many reasons , these kollelim with the best of intentions need to run 20 ads to get one guy to move out there, chicago offers green cards …
out of town communities are wonderful for those that are there already, but why would you leave NY where you have yiddishkeit & convience times 50..
as far as cost of living “if ” you are chjassidish and belong to a kehilla financialy its not cheaper to be out of town
even baltimore who has a nadvan carrying the financial burden almost fell apart during covid and is not clear what the long term …no inverse exists , i am chassidish & work in the litvish world; there is absolutely no excess of boys in the chassidsh world; there are 2 additional factors that may give you that perception
1. RED LIGHTS! the chassidish are very makpid on not skipping so 50% of the time u see a “older” chassidish boy or girl its because they waiting for a sibling to move
2. ” STILLWELL AVE. the chassidish boys system ends abruptly at about 19 , u need to get off the train there is almost no framework after that… so if the boy doesnt go for whatever reason he needs to create a schedule & life for himself .. the girl on the other hand has a life , job …maybe school..so she joins a shiur or 2 on emuna and starts soaring while he tries to keep himself out of trouble and joins yeled vyalda gym at night, resulting a ruchnius GAP THATS WIDENING WITH TIME.. much more to say got to workeveryone knows the questions, look around u will see the struggles no one with sechel thinks that the gedolim have the answers or power to change .. hashem has not granted them that level of ruach hakodesh & they themselves say it often …rather the questions are asked to shed some light and a bit of direction ad sheyovoh eliyahu
go over to any big rosh yeshiva and ask him … he will say zorich iyun godol… i can answer for a yochid what you should try to do in your situation but i dont have the power to make major changesburst your bubble, ofcourse a billion can do many mitzvos , however DONT THINK that a billion can solve any of the big challenges facing klal yisroel today? before you jump let me explain..
did you here of stimulus checks, PPP, child care credit checks, food boxes.. increase in snap.. when you add that up the frum world in the tristate got well OVER A BILLION dollars and we are in the same hole ( ofcourse on an individual basis it was a help) but you get my point .. hope you winsimple; parents have 20 + years of real life experience , hopefully are not distracted by minor flaws..
shidduchim is a learning curve ..paert of the process is hoping for … and than slowly being more open and accepting .. as u are of yourself despite your weaknesses..
of course parents need to know their child & avoid their own agendas…
IN EACH SHIDDUCH AT LEAST 6 PEOPLE NEED TO AGREE so its a miracle when anyone gets engageddina demalchusa is far less than blanket ” dinei momonus” if all monetary law would follow governing law than choshen mishpat & beis din are basicly by the wayside . business halacha is so diff than legal..
chillul hashem is a whole sep. issue which is also very ,limited , if the ny post ran any of these headlines would you consider it a chillul hashem
1. orthodox camp forbids 12 yr old girls from eating or drinking for 25 hrs in 90 degree heat
2. grand rabbi prohibits uncle to hug niece at her graduation
3. mazel tov , newborn mom ” daddy dont touch”always ask.. you mixed up the memra the requirement was “TOCHO K’ BARO- meaning the inside should be AS GOOD as the outside.. rav miller explains that baro ” the exterior” always looked more pious than the inside and rabban gamliel wanted only metzuyanim thru & thru. yet the other tanna held that the chitzonius is meorer es hapnimiyos and even if you need a lot of work on the inside .. look the part be part of the yeshiva world anyway.. and that will help
in the early 60’s the satmar rav was invited to yeshiva torah vodaas in willy and although the bochurim looked very american & not yeshivish , the rebbe was so impressed with the sincerity & ” americaner temimus” , that he gave a brocho to rav mendelovitz that the bochurims “baro should be as good as their tocho”difficulty getting in, has little to do w/ top or bottom – rather its simple supply & demand (which fluctuates as in mi yishofel umi yorum)
most bochurim decide where to go based on the “OILAM” – if they culturally fit in with all the nuances , whos the rosh is #2 …lastly there are yeshivos where the rosh yeshiva wanted to teach talmidim but with a limited financial burden , so they kept the yeshiva small in an old shul building… so its hard to get in because the facility is simple & small yet if he had a gevir buy him a big building he can double and it wouldnt be hard anymoreimagine calling a big lawyer lewin, brafman, dershowitz and saying a i have a legal question for you , what would be his answer?
yet you can call or go over to any big posek and ask your halacha shaaloh for free bekovod ubesever panim.. with no feealways ask.. give the check anonymously to his wife & it wont change your relationship , figure what yom tov cost you and match it ( if u can)
how is your chavrusa financially , if he learns with you and could use the money- than do something that means something ( if you are in the position maybe 1800 for yom tov )
dont worry about his indebtedness to you – unfortunately 1800 will barely get one kid into camp for HALF A SUMMER!as with all big questions ” it depends” there are so many variables & factors that affect the answer
whats your ” market value” ( ugly term , but it is a market of sorts , & there are value markers)
how perceptive are you on dates..
bothers you very much, how many blanks are filled in on that question
whom you ask info from & whom u just didnt call & missed is also min hashomayim
you will hopefully KNOW your spouse within 5 years of marraige
marriage is like krias yam suf in that it needs tefila, hishtadlus but the sea doesnt split UNTIL YOU JUMP ( a leap of faith)lets wait for some more facts , there are big pieces missing in the story . we are not too welcoming , a commenter mentions the russians.. when was the last time the avg frum family had a russian for a shabbos … its been years . one of the reasons the shabbos project changed its tune to focus on the ” frum family feeling shabbos” is because most non religious people have no interest in coming to flatbush even if invited
we have plenty of opinions here in the coffee room on anything & everything
but BP27 is correct we need background info to help u?you sound like a ben torah and then you write something puzzling! “I have never ever heard of any individual or yeshiva that practices this method. Are there any heteirim? Cholkim? the first line answers your question? and the language heterim & cholkim? if no one you know is learning this way, what does that infer?
the teretz is , until kollel you basicly follow sidrei hayeshiva with some personal shinuim allowed ( an extra hr for chumash or halacha..) if thats not working for you ask a senior mashgiach for hadracha
IN KOLLEL you can do whatever works for you – the torah is so big grab whatever speaks to your neshomohgreat question;
there are two types of uses , viewers & comment posters
only ywn can really answer those stats
but my hunch is very small number , 90% of comments are by the same 30 posters , also the actual number & length of comments even on hot topics is minimal. that is based on comparing this coffee room to the yiddish one called ivelt where u can see the number of views & comments many topics have 1000’s of comments and 100, k views . i am amazed at the detail & knowledge as a recent example the petira of rav dr twerzky z”l had 8 long pages of comments , pics , documents..`. maybe its a positive thing that the american yeshiva world is working & learning instead of wasting timeits simple- ads dont get seforim to yeshiva bochurim .
step 1. print a sample pamphlet with a few pieces on the perokim currently being learned in the yeshivos gedolos
2. there are sign distributers that drop pamphlets like toras avigdor, alim letrufa, peninim.. rav biderman..etc..
most yeshiva bochurim barely make it to a seforim store you would do better with the many kollelima few points ;
no decent yid wants “families going to orlando” to have problems ,
a famous line but true ” its not about the money”
yes frum parents work very hard & have a right to spend money the way they wish ( within very broad parameters) although its not a blank heter to blow …$$
the majority of frum yidden would not go to orlando for pesach EVEN FOR FREE
here are a few reasons why?
yom tov is supposed to be ” hecher” , its a time to be focused on ruchnius each on their level – sure there is good food , new clothing,..this is not the proper time on the calender- you need to go , pick a weekend in the winter
ZMAN CHEIRUSANU- we are blessed with a shefa yet we are far from free.. its very difficult to feel cheirus in orlando
cleaning & preparing for pesach are exercises that are so therapeutic & cleansing for your families neshama – this is not deep kaballa , this is basic 9 when your goyta vacuums & “you sell the house ” you are missing an opportunity & your kids lose out as well ,
davening in a SHUL- the olam , the singing , the tzura of a mikdash me’at & A RAV to say a few words is very diff. than sitting around a tent or living room with a small siddur
there are circumstances for individual families to go but overall its not jealousey rather a disappointment in the yeridas hadoryour question sounds fishy , because you are not walking cross town , u gave a 1.5 mile radius. if you were sincere you would say near m & coney as an example
if its a shaas hadchak on rare occasion or you are farshlepped and cant get to mincha on time even once a week3 things to do first
1. speak to a bunch of similar style frum families that made aliya , and ask them ?
2. speak to at least 2 rabonim who know this specific line in the anglo / isreal neighborhoods
3. look in the mirror , whats motivating you to take such a drastic step ? & why NOW?Put out one sample shtikel in shuls that speaks more than ads. There are companies that drop these things in 500 shuls every friday
flatbush part 2- some of the above comments make it sound like flatbush is disintegrating thats a huge exaggeration – flatbush is & will continue to be an ir veem beyisroel
now 2 more cultural changes that had a profound affect
coming to your inlaws/ parents for shabbos & yomtov- married children coming home for yom tov was a nachas for younger siblings , parents & “THE SHUL” – the couples found a room in the house little ones doubled up & made it work , THAT CHANGED ! couples dont want to come to anything less than a suite with…. so now you have shuls that have a decent olam on shabbos but yomtov attendance drops & so does the ruach.2. connection, OR LACK OF – if one is not connected to a rov , yeshiva , shul , chavrusa.. than i can make kabolas shabbos , carlebach style in a living room on the block, yomtov chanuka in florida , shavuos in the country.. & sukkos by an uncle in toms river
boropark is a whole diff story its because the kehilos are bursting at the seems with 1000 new couples a year , each chassidishe kehiila has a exact tally of births , boys , girls .. shidduchim- and a team that looks for properties & plans for growth if you were to get a behind the scenes peak at some of these high level meetings you would be blown away (its not near 10% leaving & its basically a certain segment of specific kehillos – for an in depth analysis go on to the ivelt website for the thread by neighborhoodthere are dozens of rabbeim tzadikkim similar to reb dovid trenk, whether they work with metzuyanim & their particular challenges or those who need alot of motivation even for the basics .
what is worthy of discussion is that despite the miracles rav trenk performed in the old adelphia days , when he came to lakewood , even with the financial support of so many former talmidim ..sadly his yeshiva couldn’t attract even a minyan of bochurim .the question is WHY? he didnt change “he loved them “. the teretz is , the type of bochur changed the “new weak bochur ” is so much lower than the old weak bochur that attended adelphia , secondly rav trenk zatzl magic worked because it was in the framework of rav shain – the rav trenk menu on its own as a main dish wasn’t sustainable- yehi zichro boruch bgan eden – the solution is way more complex than “just love them”. many of these boys have parents who love them much more than i love my own kids…veheshiv lev avos al bonim
between the lines it seems you want to discuss the changes in brooklyn specifically flatbush .
here is what some people are noticing & the question is what to make of it
1. for many years flatbush expanded on every front , do u remember when nostrand was the cut off point ,now there is a whole town till flatbush avenue and beyond. yet it seems that many shuls have less people there on shabbos & yom tov than a decade ago
2. in the 90’s married yeshiva couples stayed in flatbush & raised the level of torah life for all , now it seems that rarely are couples staying local
3.some local mosdos that had waiting lists & 2 or 3 parallels are now barely filling up 2 classes ( others are still packed yet even those will tell u that each year a number of children relocate)so really this is all a domino effect of chinuch changes in the last 25 years when learning in ey for boys and girls became standard- automatically the big bochurim were not local, were not in yeshiva, not in shul shabbos.. than many began going back to e”y for a few years after marraige so u had few new couples local , which meant that the shul’s were missing the chizuk that yungeleit provide , and finally when they came back the couples were faced with a huge challenge of the yerida or perceived yerida of american gashmius. lakewood was THE CLOSEST seviva to e”y & more affordable , and if thats where the couples are thats where the nursery kg kids are, & if the einiklach are there thats where you go for yomtov……a study was done on most mosdos in brooklyn 6th grades how many kids in that class now & how many were in the same class when it started 7 years ago in preschool & the survey showed that the avg class lost just 1 kid per year but by the time you got to 6th grade thats 20%- so much more to say maybe tomm
there are 3 key differences – in the us they use a diff blend of winter wheat , eretz yisroel starts earlier in america the early stock goes to hotels , farther out of town , lastly the wood is diff
as far as the cost – for most families matzah is NOT the big pesach expense , in the next few weeks you will see that clothes, goyta, chol hamoed trips is way more – the average cost of matza for a family with 6 kids is 500-definitly not; there are many refrences to changing clothes for shaabos , in the zemiros before eishes chayil it says ” ki hechlafti simloisy.., it means that lets say shabbos morning you leave check your pockets from fri nt .. napkin… candy.. this is why bekishe pockets are all the way in the back
LEYZER? its none of my business but you posted , do u mean your kids are staying inside the whole purim ,like not giving shalach manos on the block or do u mean home for the seuda?
let us help you ,are you looking for more names?
a few thoughts;
1. the question is way way bigger than any human mind can grasp.
2. there are numerous variables , contradicting data, so many ramifications to each change that we cant begin to process
3. finally most countries in the world have no incentive to be earth friendly so u could be cleaning the ocean from this end & china is pouring a billion barrels of sewege from the other
4. do the right thing every day we all have so many areas to improve, to use life and leave this to the ani reishis veani achris –it depends a bit on what eng font and the point size , its never going to be too smooth even artscroll struggles with that , the obvious thing would be to use a font similar to artscroll as im sure theyve been thru this
find a sefer that you like what you see & match it upthere are a number of good heimish phone books , but they are not online for a number of reasons , depending on your need there are a number of mail houses that do big mailings by neighborhood…
if u post what you are looking for maybe can be of helpheres what happened
1. at the time of the big expose & shaaloh.. the e”y poskim felt it was asur or close enough to takroves
2. the american poskim were divided most followed e”y in principal but also felt that ” by splitting hairs ” there was a yesh al mi lismoch and since the facts from diff sources were contradicting some kind of a safek remained
3. the chassidishe kehilos ( skver, satmar…) were never too comfortable with current shaitels , they felt they were too good , attractive… similar to hair.. so they viewed this shalloh as a siman min hashamayim to upgrade their tznius level to synthetic & shorter
4. the sefardy poskim always viewed a shaitel as a big bedieved and a tichel as lechatchila
5 rav belsky zatzl-a year after the shaaloh the RJJ halacha journal and others reviewd the facts & came out that rav belsky was correct on many of the points both as far as the hindu religion & the rambam..
6 there is a company with a hechsher for those wanting the human hair yet avoiding the shaloh some rabonim tried promoting it with a small measure of success. their message is that even if there is some tzad to be meikil yet by avoda zara the torah specificly uses the word ” harchek” distance yourself…What exactly is your question? What’s obvious is the average frum family needs a boatload of gelt to live with current standards,tuitions camps simchas…its also true that on the surface the show goes on and it seems ok. The billion dollar q is how, ? Can it be that the avg working person can bring home 6 figures…its a nes galuy
Can this be verified? In all fairness there are different attitudes to tthis heavy shaaloh , anecdotedly in ny despite no restrictions and high density very little serious cases among youth. However each mossad works with what their parent base can handle. In bp they would kill the admin for closing and out of ty pressure to
closebest for who? why not ask your sons rebbi – or contact an experienced rebbi in a toronto mosad
make a deal with your neighbor , each can buy one and swap if you really want both .
Daas yochid , the shana rishona gitin are the rigid people fighting over the principal. Bottom line extras is paid by whoever suggests it
a few points;
1. so the chossons parents are arguing over $ 350 – after the kallas side is paying an extra approx 5000 ?
2. and for what sushi & salami?? its true that people coming for kabolas panim need to eat something its supper time people drove in… but these are not the filing items like sesame chicken & rice…
3. context & flexibility; there are 2 general rules , different people spend money on diff. things because to”THEM” its important and worth it so for one mechutan sushi is more important than a lady photographer.. and to the other a nuttery station in NECESSARY – so whoever really wants it pays the extra & do it besimcha
rule 2 – which side has more money , if you do, be happy to be the “TZINOR” , thats your way of saying hodu lashem on the shiddduch , to start by helping the other tzad.
imagine choson kallah on the thursday phone call … my parents.. sushi, carving … 350$$$ – the satan has plenty of ways to shter a simcha…
to end w a short vort from the bobover ruv zatz”l. the gemora brings a proof that you can use money to make kiddushin & get married from the story of efron selling a burial plot to avrohom . the ruv explains that there was something unique about that transaction with a lesson to marriage and that is as follows . efron & avrohom walked away feeling they got the better end of the deal ; efron 400 silver pieces for an empty field what a deal ! and avrohom a mokom rau for the mearas hamachpela – a bargain . thats should be the attitude for each side to feel ,
as rav pam would say in yiddish “ver zogt az du darfst chapen der metzia by yenem, efsher darf yene chapen dee metzia by deer.dude – sometimes we are, and many times we’re not , although i do like myself , however considering what hashem has given me ( job , brains, wife…great yeshiva, rabbeim…i should be way way better by now .2 lines about emes -shayn is es nisht uber emes iz es yeh, & ” EMES HUT CHEIN” . so u are correct that as a whole each yochid is awesome . one quick vort in line with your statemenet . In hilchos aveilus the mechaber says that at a hesped ” yegazem ktzas” “meaning u should exaggerate a little” , it begs the question a levaya is a moment of emes when nothing else matters , exaggerate? this is not a dinner or a sheva brochos? answers the TA”Z – that our opinion of people around us is generally under rating them, in truth our fellow yidden are better than the way we size them up , so by exaggerating i am in actuality saying the truth – ah gut shabbos
i dont have one , but is it fair to say that most are pretty loyal housekeepers & care givers?
reply to the real 1-? after your question i reread my comment. its so clear , leaving kollel comes with mixed emotions , be it scraping dollars to buy milk , or the disappointment of not finding enough sipuk , & the real fear of what can i do to bring home parnassa … many times the wife wanted & hoped to be able to juggle it all & physically cant.. and feels guilty… but its NEVER time to hang up skates & fulfill kesuva as if to say recess is over enough games time to buckle down…
the point about friday night challos was to give hope & confidence that somehow you’ll survive & make it . And having food , shelter , lights…is called making itbekitzur:
1. when discussing hus./ wife ( kesheyno tehora) clearly asur the mechabers reason is ” shema yigah bo – accidental touch – so in line with that reasoning , the same would be by any woman even a cashier….
2. The shach adds ” afilu davar aruch” where minimal chance of accidental touch as a “lo ploog”.)
3. However the rashba & others hold ” davka” beish veishto where there is kiruv daas & familiarity is it asur BUT by ordinary people its ok .
4. By regular strangers the general minhag is to accept things being passed , however in an office where there is collaboration , working closely on projects… strong gedarim are nec. & not a chumra according to both lines of reason. The title of the siman in E”H is ” lehisrachek” meaning that for us yidden its not enough that ” we didnt chas veshalom ” do anything” hashem has set a way higher bar for his am hanivchar that hirhur is not ok