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There are many things they did not have in the Alter Heim. Freedom of religion, girls learning in Yeshivah, secular education for all, world-wide dissemination of Torah for all people who wanted to learn, etc…
No one can deny that GIANTS of Torah came from there, but life there was not idyllic, and more Torah is learned by MORE people on a regular basis nowadays, than ever was in the Alter Heim.
IS there a way to say it in Hebrew? “
THAT is THE HEBREW. Mechutanim is Hebrew for the parents of the chosson or kallah. It comes from the shoresh OF CHOSSON, Ches,Suf, Nun. We see it in the Torah by Yisro Chosein (father-in-law of) Moshe. Mother-in-law is probably choh-sen-ess. The mechutan (grammatically formed in Binyan Pu-al, which is the passive form of Binyan Pea-el and pronounced with a sefardic tuf,not suf) is the parent of one of the parties to the chasunah. Plural is mechutanim. The Yiddish pronunciation for that Hebrew word is “machetonim.” Kind of like saying Mishpoocha, for the original Hebrew “Mishpacha.”
How about when you bend down to play with the Aineklach Bli Ayin Hora,and can’t get up because the knees don’t work”
Have you been looking in my window again??????
MII, that was my talent also (singing), and now I do that primarily for my aineklach, for whom I also make up songs, and stories (used to write quite a bit). My big talent these days is being a Bubby. Best part of my life.
It has to be only if we allow it to be that way. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
“A piece of chazir is a piece of chazir. It is an Orthodox website — the Laws of the Torah do not change. Even if it reflects badly on your relatives.”
But a piece of chazir was NEVER muttar by ANYONE’S standards. EVER. And kindly do not tell me what reflects on my relatives.
“And about kiruv, I am Ba’al Teshuva”
I married a B”T, and your last statement explains a lot about your previous posts. Do you think because you are a B”T that you know how to be mekareiv others? That’s like saying I can shecht meat because I love to eat it. Both statements “could” potentially be factual, but not based on the first half of each statement.
The song by Bette Midler IS The Wind Beneath My Wings.
Beautiful, beautiful lyrucs, to a beautiful melody about timeless and enduring friendship.
My mother’s mother, who was widowed at an early age, and raised two daughters, then helped to raise ALL her aineklach from both daughters (we being the lucky ones for the last thirty years of her life), was one of my three heroes, who had the most impact on who I am today. My parents were the other two. Not a day goes by that I do not miss them with all my heart. I was very blessed to have them.
There is a difference between D’Oraisa and D’rabbonon. The chiyuv is not the same, the onesh for being oveir on each is not the same, and the permissibility to suspend the latter is less strict than the former (in an emergency that is not pikuach nefesh).
Likewise, the chumros of our rabbonim, though we must observe what they tell us to do, are still not the halacha m’Sinai, but rather are gedarim that we follow to preserve the halacha m’Sinai. So there is a little wiggle room (as per our rabbonim) within some of those areas, as well (such cholov Yisroel).
Brooklyn yenta its true that u can also get attention by doing somwthing weird but usually a lady that is wearing a shmata on her head although she will get attention nobody will be attracted.”
Not necessarily true. There are women who wear the most outlandish hairstyles, nose rings, tattoos, and yes, shmattas on their head, and some weirdo will find them attractive. Just look at some of the couples who walk down the street of Manhattan.
oomis1105
you have a good point but you are completely wrong. If a lady would be covering her arm with a more attractive arm that would be the same problem as covering her hair with more attractive hair. Wearing nice clothes isnt using more attractive erva to cover the ervah “
Chayav inish : You have a good point, too, but you also may not be correct. Respectifully, you would be correct if SHAITLECH were considered to be erva (like the more attractive arm that you mention). But they are not. Hair, unlike a bare arm, is NOT intrinsically erva. It is only erva when it is the hair of a MARRIED woman and takes on that status. But a bare arm is always erva, even in an unmarried girl. So your point, while understood, is not really based on comparable information.
Sorry.
Well, if this is a question for you, what are you doing here?
A woman’s body (and a man’s too, for that matter) are erva. But when they are clothed, they are not. Should both men and women not wear attractive clothing, nice suits, pretty dresses? The store sin Boro Park are extremely pricey. I can’t afford to shop there (and it doesn’t bother me, as I am not label-conscious). But maybe it should be assur to wear nice clothing, too, because it covers the reva of the body, just as the pretty shaitel covers the erva of a married woman’s (and ONLY a married woman’s) hair.
If the purpose of the hair covering is to make her look less attractive to all men but her own husband, then all the people arguing about the fancy sheitlach would be correct. But if the purpose of covering the hair, is the same as the purpose of wearing a dress or a suit, which is to cover up the erva of the body, then it should not matter to anyone what the sheitel looks like. It’s sole purpose is to provide a cover for something which may only be seen by her own husband (or other women). We amke many assumptions about hair covering, but what if the only reason is because when a woman gets married the status of her hair changes? Period.
The anesthesia is the wprst of it; the endoscopy itself is a short procedure and if under anesthesia, the baby will not be aware of it at all. For anyone who is older and having this done, it really is no big deal at all. One second you are getting an IV, the VERY NEXT SECOND (as far as you will be concerned), the procedure is already over. You will have no recollection of time passing, though ti will probably take about 20 minutes or so.
While we are on the subject, if you have not yet had a colonoscopy and are 50 or more years old, or if you are younger and there is a family history of a problem, PLEASE arrange to have this test done ASAP. It really is nothing with nothing, and the test itself can save lives. The prep the day before is nowhere near as awful as I always envisioned it.
ROB – coming from you, I feel complimented.
I think that when it comes to this issue, that people (primarily those who are of the present generation of young people, who have been brought up with a different hashkafic mindset than the older members of the CR) will be unable to see the other side of the coin. That’s fine. But it also underscores why nowadays kiruv is so difficult and why it should only be handled by open-minded, secure, frum people who can help people find their religious way, without making them feel that they are “terrible” because they lived another way.
There is no such thing as “Tznius-dig by the accepted standards of TODAY.” There is only Tznius-dig by the standards of the Torah and Chazal”
So do you think the Rabbonim of that time did not know about those standards then? Regardless of what you think, for those years, most non-chassidish frum women dressed a little differently than they do today, and I guarantee you every one of them would faint if she thought you were calling her immodest. When you call someone untzniusdig, you are making an extremely megative judgment about her character. Those women were nashim tzidkonios, most of them, and no one should be maligning them because they wore short sleeves or yes, even pants. There is a big difference between not dressed according to understood and accepted standards, and outright being untzniusdig. It seems to be a very difficult concept for some of you to chaap, though.
And I personally hold by the standard that expects a long enough skirt and sleeves and covered hair at all times, even in my house, btw when I am alone. But my mother O”H, one of the MOST eidel and balabatish frum women I have ever known, did not dress that way, until the last few years of her life. Very few frum women who grew up during WWII in the USA did. You impugn several generations of outstanding women, and it is not the right thing to do, as a Monday morning quarterback.
It does prevent chatzitzah, true, but I think nowadays it has more to do with ensuring that the wife keeps her head fully covered at all times, because it would be an embarrassment for her to be seen with a shaved head.
In-laws is the only real expression that comes close, but I usually say to people who would not understand “machetonim,” my children’s in-laws. (For some of us the word “outlaws” will suffice – not myself, of course.)
No there is no concrete proof, as such. There is emunah that what they said was Divinely inspired. But as was pointed out there are shivim panim laTorah and two meforshim who are diametrically opposed to each other cannot both be correct, if one says black and the other says white. The idea is what lessons we learn from their peirushim, not whether or not those peirushim are the absolute emes, because their is an emesdigkeit in their meaning, if not a factual accuracy. So it doesn’t matter to me whether Odom and Chava ate an esrog, a piece of wheat, a grape, or whatever the Eitz Hadaas was, as is argued amongst the meforshim. What matters is the global truth that Man can be given everything under the sun by the R”SHO, so what possible reason could he have for taking the one and only thing that is forbidden to him? Why is the Yetzer Hara that strong ?
Speaking to Hashem from the heart.
Accepting the nisayon (have had quite a few, not the least of which was losing both my parents within a few months of each other, unexpectedly).
Resolving not to let it defeat me.
Trying to be a better person, to be worthy of the help I am asking from Hashem.
And eating Hershey’s chocolate is never a shas hadchak.”
Speak for yourself 😉
To see the marriages of great-grandchildren, the grandchildren of all my children, as a nechama to me for the fact that my own parents did not live to see the marriage of even one grandchild, when their greatest joy in life was those aineklach. I would feel like Hashem was giving me my parents’ portion of nachas that they never got to experience while still alive.
One woman I know who uncovered her hair with a heter from her rov, was a divorcee looking to remarry. She now IS remarried.
No one is disparaging previous generations,”
Well yeah, they kinda did. And however we view tznius today, the previous generation may have done certain things differently, but IMO it is wrong to say they were not tzniusdig. They were not tzniusdig by the accepted standards of TODAY. Previous generations interpreted tznius by a different yardstick and considered themselves to be frum, modest people. I really do not understand why this is such a hard concept to understand. People also did not eat glatt kosher several decades ago. Meat was either kosher or not kosher. Glatt came in with the influx of various groups. Is it better to eat glatt, from the standpoint of kashrus? Of course. But does that mean our relatives fifty years ago ate treif? Not by the standards that were acceptable to most fru, Yidden then.
Anyway, it is clear we cannot reach a meeting of minds on this issue. As we live in this day and age, and most of us seem to follow what is presently the accepted standard for tzniusdig clothing, I think it matters little what people did before this. And oh yes, I would wear a jeans skirt. It’s only a type of material, and holds up much better than my other clothing when I am running around doing errands, cleaning house, or just getting on the floor with my grandchildren,etc.
Put yourself in thier shoes and then talk! Realize what a hard time these people must be going thru. “
Please — they are not collecting for themselves most of the time? Many of us also are going through hard times, these days. I have to be selctive in my choice of tzedakas to support.
Re: the Do Not Call List – if it is a business (not a tzedaka or political call), then they are breaking the law, and you can tell them that and inform them that of they call again you will take legal action against their company.
OK, my husband could not afford a diamond, but he wanted me to have “the ring” and with my haskama we got an inexpensive CZ.I already was about to marry “the real diamond” anyway. I never told anyone it was a diamond, and as no one asked me, I never told them it was NOT a diamond, either. It was a modest-sized stone, and I loved it. On our tenth anniversary my husband bought me a diamond enternity band. Not because I requested it, but because he wanted me to have it. As long as no one is trying to fool anyone, I see no reason why iot has to be a real diamond, if it is not affordable. But is there not an inyan that a kiddushin ring would cause the chuppah to be invalid if the bride thought it was worth more than it actually was?
I am fairly certain the Avos did not wear suits when they herded their sheep. Oh wait – Brooks Brothers wasn’t invented yet.
If true, the boy and his parents could be guilty of gneivas daas.
SPATE? “
I think you mean spat, but most people say “spit” even in the past tense.
To find a rhyme with purple”
You wanted to rhyme this with “purple”?
I’d normally help out much more,
But my grandson just gave a nice burp-el
And spit up all over the floor.
Once a woman gets married, she must always cover her hair, even if she C”V gets divorced. “
That is not necessarily the halacha. I am acquainted with many women who were given the heter to take off the head covering after their divorce, so that men would realize they were available again for marriage. They were otherwise very frum women who always wore a shaitel. Some women feel uncomfrotable with the idea, so they would not do it. But it is not for us to judge either way, especially if they have a p’sak that permits it.
Oomis, I read your outrageous post again. ” Some would not consider them tsniusdig…”. The Torah standards, the Halocha do not change!! According to you, it is shayach to wear a bathing suit in front of men and still be a tsanua — this beyond anything! “
Clearly you misunderstood everything I posted. According to ME is not the issue. I don’t do it. But I tried to make the point that not everything is black and white and there is a concept of tznius that is NOT about the skirt length. We follow certain rules now that fifty years ago were not followed by mainstream frum people. Would you argue that if one’s mother did not cover her hair that she was not a tzniusdig person at that time? If you say yes to that, then we have no place where we can dialogue about this issue.
Girls can be very tzniusdig in their behavior, yet dress in a way that you might find offensive. Their understanding of the concept of tznius in clothing is not consistent with the halacha as most of us follow it now. Though you are correct that the Torah does not change, our understanding of it sometimes does vary somewhat from rov to rov, from societal group to societal group, and from neighborhood to neighborhood. There are some people who believe that women MUST wear seamed stockings, or a hat on top of a shaitel. There are men who would not be seen in a hat other than a black one, or in a colored shirt. Are those who dress differently from them, untzniusdig? They believe that what they are doing is the only right thing to do.
Many people here are trashing some girls’ TOTAL tznius, based on only one aspect of their tznius. BTW, mdd, what people did 40 years ago was not “terrible,” as you say (that’s a really judgmental word against people who remained frum in extremely difficult times). By TODAY’S standards, it may have been less strict, but not terible by any means. A lot of things were done in those days that rabbonim do not accept today, i.e. using baby carriages in a place where there is no eruv. It is not a case of TERRIBLE. It is that we understand things in a different way than we did then. We know more about kashrus, about physics, the way the human body functions, and we also have moved more to the right in recent decades, so that which was the norm a long time ago, no longer is.
You truly misunderstood every point I was making. I don;t know if you are a child of the 1950s, but if you were, you would have “gotten” what I was saying.
My dad was shorter than my mom. It didn’t hurt them any. Thatbeing said, there is short and there is short. My daughter is 5’2″. She is simply not comfortable with a guy who is shorter than 5’7″ or so. She lieks to wear high heelsand feels awkward when she is at eye level talking to her date. She HAS gone out with several guys who were around her height, and she really felt awkward with them. You cannot fault someone for what is or is not attractive.
When you speak about the weight issue, a little overweight is not the same as someone who is obese. The problem also is that our society has determined that a girl is not attractive unless she is nearly emaciated. if you would look at old movies with Marilyn Monroe,Jane Russell, Sophia Loren etc. women who were undeniably attractive, none of them was a skinny mini. Lucille Ball who was a beautiful woman, was an admitted Size 12-14. If she were a young frum woman today, do you think based on today’s standards she would be redt any shidduchim?
So guys seem to have truly unrealistic values regarding weight and size. Girls who are a size 0-2 are probably not much fun to take out for a meal, anyway. The bottom line (no pun intended) is that we have to be less concerned with numbers, and more concerned with the total package. Some girls who could stand to lose a little weight, can make awfully amazing wives and mothers. And that skinny girl can get fat, too.
Kol hakavod, to EstherH. That shows class.
There are different levels of tznius, and also there are different ways people interpret the concept. I know some incredibly tzniusdig young ladies who wear skirts that are slightly shorter than most of us would think of as being so. You would never hear L”H from their lips, or see them behave in a way that is immodest. I have conversely seen girls with skirts several inches below the knees, collars up to their chins, sleeves down to the wrists, whose personaly sense of propriety is very unladylike and in my opinion not tzniusdig. Forty years ago, frum girls who were considered to be modest, wore shorter skirts than even today. They wore pants, they wore shorts with sleeveless shirts, they wore bathing suits and went mixed swimming.
They were yeshivah girls, they were respectful to their elders, they did chessed for others, they were not loud or ostentatious. But by today’s measure, they would not be considered by many people in the CR to have been tzniusdig, and yet internally they were extremely so.
Yes, we have certain hashkafic absolutes, but we also have to remember that tznius is not only measured in inches. It is measured in actions. Maybe some of the girls who were described, do not fit the mold that some would like. That does not automatically make them untzniusdig, even if their mode of dress might be considered that way by many.
Go get a tube ( a syringe actually) of roach bait gel. (Most supermarkets, drug stores or Home Depots have it).
This will ATTRACT the roaches to it, since they see it as food.
Put out little dabs or lines of it where you saw the roaches.
The roaches take the bait back to where the mishpacha is hiding and it kills them all. It may take a few days, but it works!”
We didn’t have this available when I needed it 25 years ago. The roaches crawl along the walls, so if you put Boric Acid along those wall edges, they WILL go into it, bring it back to the nest and share it with the other roaches. It is only dangerous if INGESTED. Merely touching it does not hurt you (l’havdil kind of like the Eitz Hadaas).
I think there is a big difference between being a little murky on details that describe you, versus deliberately presenting yourself fraudulently as something which you absolutely are not.
Eating up the leftovers. It’s a dirty job, but SOMEONE’S gotta do it!
My very trusting parents, O”H, were conned by a very clever young man, who used his acquaintanceship with my brother, to talk them out of a few hundred dolalrs. His story was extremely smooth and convincing. I ,yself was worried about his situation, based on what we were told. But he was a liar, through and through.
When you have to reject a person/idea,HOW DO YOU DO IT? “
Rejecting an idea is very easy. You can say to the person, “That’s a very interesting idea/perspective/way of looking at things. Thank you for mentioning it. I will certainly give it some thought.” Then you do what you want.
I think we should call this movie “The War of the Words.”
We’re gonna ask little Mrs Kallah to brush dilligent each month?”
Nope, her husband will.
Why do we call it yayin nesech”
Yayin nesech literally means wine that is poured (by non-Jews onto the altars of their particular avoda zara). As there is little in the way of true A”Z these days (though there are arguments that can be made for the existence of A”Z in many cultures), the wine touched by non-Jews is referred to as Stam Yeinam (simply their wine), and it i still assur to drink, even if never involved in A”Z ritual, because drinking wine with non-Jews leads to socialization with them in such a way as can lead to possible intermarriage.
It depends on the mental illness. Someone suffering from depression is not the same as someone who is psychotic or a sociopath. I think people worry about the potential stigma affecting shidduchim, more than anything else.
If this is a one family house, it doesn’t necessarily follow the same rules as an apartment building must conform to. I had a roach problem in my (then) apartment on the top floor of a two family house) about 25 years ago. my landlords did not bring in an exterminator, and it is most probable that the roach problem originated in their apartment. They used to keep paper shopping bags from the local supermarket, and I believe the egss were in those bags, and hatched. They also painted their apartment, so everything came up to us. I had never had a roach problem prior to this.
In any event, I put out about a dozen roach motels all over the place, and also sprinkled Boric Acid along the walls, especially in the kitchen and bathroom (please note: if you have small kids, BA is toxic). The problem disappeared within a week, but I couldn’t function in my apartment,as I was so grossed out. I totally empathize with you.
What Aries and Eclipse said…
SJS, if what you wrote about is what broke up their marriage, they had a lot more to fix than what they were eating. Nobody should marry, even the first time, without discussing such mundane things. And how money is spent is NOT mundane.
Oomis,
Mazel Tov, may you have much nachas! “
Thanks so much. B”H I do!!!!!
Bed-Stuy — SERIOUSLY?????????
Second marriages can work quite well (I am so happy for you, Always Here). I would suggest to divorced people contemplating a second marriage, to have some counseling individually and as a couple, prior to taking the big step, and try to understand what went wrong the first time around.
I say address the elephant in the room and talk about it directly.
Two years is a long enough time in which a person may have grown in many ways, especially if they were very young the first time around (like age 20). People mature and change, so maybe the things that were an issue the first time, might no longer be a problem, especially if someone suggests a re-date.