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147- R’ Willig holds that one should not daven with a minyan if it’s a tartei desasrei problem. The question is, which tefilah do you daven beyechidus?
avhaben- I don’t know about yeshivah, but in terms of work, R’ Schachter says that since the din is you have to go a mil (which is 18 minutes) out of your way for a minyan, which is essentially 36 minutes if you count both ways, that means halachically you are required to incur up to a 36 minute loss for minyan. More than that you aren’t required to do.
Just because a segulah works, doesn’t make it muttar. Most segulas are superstitions which are assur. Segulahs are supposed to function as reminders that G-d runs the world, and chizzuk to daven. If one believes segulahs are magic it is most likely assur under lo senachashu.
“And as far as utilities and protection and street paving, etc, the Chareidim lived without it in EY prior to the Zionists and never asked for it.”
I think the Gemara says that the halacha is is that if someone goes onto your property without you asking for it, and does a benefit for you, then you have to pay him for it. So even though in our case the Charedim did not ask for it, you cannot argue that they don’t benefit from it, so they are are chayav at the very least to show hakaras hatov to the ones who gave it to them.
There is definitely an obligation to daven with a minyan as the Gemara says that one has to go out of his way 1 mil to get a minyan. The question is, and if I may use a mashal, if tefilah is a cake, is davening with a minyan one of the ingredients or is it the icing? Is it an essential component or not? A nafka mina would be is one allowed to go on vacation if he knows he won’t be able to get a minyan. This is a machlokes among the poskim- I think R’ Shlomo Zalman says no but I think Ishei Yisroel brings down shitos who argue.
R’ Herschel Shachter shlita from YU holds it is icing on the cake and R’ Aharon Lichtenstein shlita once said that was young he would miss minyan once in a while in order to help his wife with their young children. R’ Immanuel Feldman shlita, fromer Rav in Atlanta, would sometimes daven Maariv by himself because since the minyan would always wait for him, it put pressure on him and hurt his kavanah. So, once in a while he would daven by himself so he could talk to G-d without any distractions.
But I think all would agree, that if there is no valid reason, one is not allowed to miss minyan. No one would say that he can daven in his house whenever he feels like it.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Yom Haatzmaus falls out every year when we are mourning those who died for not treating others with respect. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this year Yom Hatzamaus fell out in the week we read the parshah for the punishment for loshon hara. The amount of disgusting disrespect and near-hate that is going towards our fellow Jews who are Zionists, whether religious or not-yet-religious, seems to imply that we have not learned the lesson of the death of the Talmidim of R’ Akiva.
derszoger- So, I guess your point is that since many of the early Zionists did bad things, that dooms the entire Zionist movement to failure from the start. And therefore, we can, no, we must ignore all of the good that has come out of it, all of the Jews that were able to make aliyah, all of the yeshivos that were able to be founded and funded, all the Torah and Tefilah that is now flourishing in Eretz Yisroel as never before and criticize and degrade as much of it as we can?
dersooger- you cant have your cake an eat it too. The 1929 riots probably had more to do with Jews making aliyah then with their ideological opposition to Zionism. So you want to blame the Zionists for inciting the Arabs, but not give them any credit for Jews moving to EY.
What probably happened is Zionsim inspired more and more Jews to move to EY. That also upset and incited the Arabs. So the Zionists took it upon themselves to protect the Jews in EY (both the ones who they inspired to come and shared their ideology and those that didn’t).
derszoger- until Britain made a quote and stopped legal immigration. The medinah however made it much easier to move to the country. No quotas and Law of Return. No other foreign government would have had anything like that. Thanks medinah!
Health- I understand that most of the government officials don’t thank Hashem publicly. First of all they are probably not frum, and they wren’t raised that way. They are tinokos shenishbu and they probably aren’t so responsible for those actions. It’s more likely our responsibility to help them see the light. And also, why can’t you be a little dan lekaf zechus? They probably do thank Hashem privately, and while we know it’s a wonderful thing to do so publicly as well, maybe they just feel uncomfortable doing so.
Either way, this is all irrelevant. The fact is, is that since hakamas hamedinah there are more Jews, Torah, and Tefilah in E”Y since probably the end of Bayis Sheini. Derech Hateva tells you that it is because of the medinah, which means in reality that it was Hashem using the medinah as a messenger. I’m not sure why so many people want to think that the Torah and Tefilah and everything good that came since 1948 is in spite of the medinah. That doesn’t make any logical sense.
Assuming that Hashem was using the medina as a messenger to deliver all of these wonderful things to Klal Yisroel, doesn’t it make sense to show the medinah hakaras hatov? Doesn’t it make sense to show Hashem hakaras hatov for giving us the medinah and everything good that comes with it? It just seems like bad midos to try and look for every little bad thing the medinah has done just so we can ignore the good and pretend that we don’t have a responsibility of hakaras hatov.
I’m not denying the fact that there are issues with the Israeli government, but it’s no worse than any other secular government. In fact, it’s probably better. Because of the government (and yes, I know, really it’s because of Hashem using the government as a messenger), there is more Torah, Tefilah, and Jews in Eretz Yisroel since probably the fall of Beitar. This is something not to be taken lightly, and yet is by many “anti-Zionists.” Many people want the government of Israel to be “frum” or at least super pro religious, and when it doesn’t give the Torah learners of EY special benefits, they criticize the government as anti-frum. Again, obviously there are some issues (like the recent kol ishah controversy) but if you look at EY as a whole, things have never been better and we have the medinah (and Hashem) to thank.
And in terms of atchalta legeulas, I personally don’t know what that means. I mean, everything leads to the geulah, no? The Holocaust in some way was also probably atchalta legeulas. I don’t know what it means to say the medinah is or isn’t. But whatever it means, I have heard that 2 “signs” of atchalta legeulas is kibutz galuyos and the fact that the Land of Israel which is normally a barren wasteland, becomes incredibly fruitful. Both of these conditions have been fulfilled (if you consider the fact that such a high percentage of World Jewry live in EY [and that number keeps on growing] as a form of kibutz galuyos).
Sam2- out of curiosity, do you have any sources that this segulah is based on Christianity? Or are you assuming that since it is so similar to the Christian custom, it must have been based on that.
The source for the “segulah” of schlissel challah is that the Gemara in Ta’anis says that only HKBH has the “key” to parnassah. So some developed a minhag to bake a key into challah as a reminder that only Hashem has the key to provide for us parnassah (represented by the challah) and it should be inspiration to have more emunah, bitachon and daven harder. Anyone who thinks that baking a key into a challah somehow magically leads to parnassah violates the issur of lo senachashu.
Marriage is a three ring circus- engagement ring, wedding ring, suffering
I always assumed the rules were that to accept food stamps or welfare you have to be actively looking for work, and you have to prove to the government that you are trying but failing. If you aren’t even looking for work, then you don’t qualify for food stamps. If that’s the case, then kollel members on food stamps are most likely lying to the government and stealing which wouldn’t be okay. However, if the rules is that anyone under a certain income level can accept food stamps, even if they aren’t looking for work, then lichorah there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. It’s probably stupid for the government to just give out free money without putting pressure on those people to actually contribute to society, but it’s their choice to give out free money, what’s wrong with taking it?
From a piece by R’ Gil student-
1. Berachos 24a
Rav Yitzchak said: A tefach of a woman is nakedness (‘ervah).
For what? If you say for looking at it, Rav Sheshes said: Why did the Torah count outer ornaments with inner ornaments? To tell you that anyone who looks at the small finger of a woman is as if he looked at the obscene place. Rather, [Rav Yitzchak is talking about] one’s wife an kerias shema.
Rav Chisda said: The thigh of a woman is nakedness as it says (Isaiah 47:2) “expose a thigh to cross a river” and it says (ibid. 3) “your nakedness will be exposed and your embarrassment will be seen.”
Shmuel said: The voice of a woman is nakedness as it says (Song of Songs 2:14) “for your voice is sweet and your countenance comely.”
Rav Sheshes said: The hair of a woman is nakedness as it says (ibid. 4:1) “you hair is like a flock of goats.”
2. Kiddushin 70a
[Rav Nachman said to Rav Yehudah]: Would you like to send regards to Yalta [Rav Nachman’s wife]?
He [Rav Yehudah] said: Shmuel said: The voice of a woman is nakedness.
Come on, he’s not saying he’s a bigger authority than R’ Scheinberg. Sports has no inherent value, but sometimes it can be used as a mean towards an end like kiruv. For what R’ Scheinberg was doing in life, he had no need for sports, so it was his achrayus to remove it from his heart because there was no point. For someone in kiruv or even highschool (and younger) Rebbeim, it may have a constructive purpose.
I never saw the Chassam Sofer inside but I once heard a shiur about metzitzah bapeh and this Chassam Sofer was brought down. The way it was explained is that when the Chassam Sofer heard that it might be a sakanah, he said that metzitzah bapeh shouldn’t (or doesn’t have to- I forget which) be done because it was only instituted to protect against sakanah and was never an ikar part of the bris. But when he heard that the person who asked the question was actually a reform Jew who just wanted an opening to mock, denigrate, and eliminate this tradition which to him seemed archaic and backwards, he was chozer and said it must be done (I assume he meant unless you know for sure it’s a sakanah).
According to R’ Schachter, the issur of lo sinachashu is attributing significance to something which doesn’t make sense logically, like if a deer goes to the right it must mean that I should do this. By this logic, most segulos would fall into this problem. They usually have good sources, but have been abused. For example- the segulah of shlissel challah (a key in the challah) which is a “segulah” for parnassah. It began because there’s a Gemara that says that one of the “keys” which Hashem and only Hashem has is the key to parnassah (I think this is in the beginning of Tanis). So the minhag began to put a key in challah to remind us that the key to bread/parnassah belongs to Hashem and we have to have bitachon in Him. When the shlissel challah became a “get rich quick” scheme, and now many people think that somehow magically a key in a challah leads to money, this would be the issur of lo senachashu.
I meant R’ Tendler
If there were people who believed it was un-tzniyus to wear seatbelts, I would imagine there would be some Rabbanim who wouldn’t simply say “eilu va’eilu” but try and actively stop other Jews from doing something that’s dangerous and could lead to loss of life.
Simialrly, I completely understand R’ Twersky who is not content with saying “let them do metzitzah bapeh” because he believes it’s a sakanah and therefore is doing what he can to protect the health and lives of babies.
There actually is a major controversy whether we can be mechalel Shabbos for metzitzah nowadays. We aren’t mechalel Shabbos to heat up the water for the baby because even though the Gemara says we should, the sakanah no longer exists. There are poskim who say that since according to the Gemara metzitzah is also for a sakanah that we no longer believe exists then one is not allowed to be mechalel Shabbos for it.
stuck- Gemara and S”A only say metitzah. To the best of my knowledged it never specifies by mouth. For all I know, doing it with a tube is just as good and is probably safer.
And it is a big machlokes whether Chazal knew science or not. I’m not saying one way or another, but there are Gedolim on both sides of the issue. If I’m not mistaken, the Gemara says we have to wash the baby with hot water after the bris because of sakanah (or something along those line) which we don’t practice anymore because it’s no longer a sakanah. Whatever you say either nishtaneh hateva or they were basing themselves on medical science that has been disproven, we don’t practice the science in the Gemara. Therefore, metzizah, which may have been done orally in the time of the Gemara, might be dangerous nowadays.
yitzchokm- it has nothing to do with modernizing. It has to do with that metzitzah bapeh might be more dangerous than metzitzah bakli (which is equally archaic yet no one wants to stop that), and since there is no source that metzitzah has to be done with peh, there is no reason not to do it the safer way.
“because we are now “enlightened” and understand and now know better then our forefathers?” some could argue that Chazal, the Rishonim, and early Achronim (the forefathers I assume you mean) were not as advanced in science and medicine as we are (I’m assuming they would have had no problem smoking as many of our gedolim in previous generations did before it was medically proven to be dangerous) and were unaware of the potential dangers in metzitzah bapeh.
yitzchokm- you should learn more about the Modern Orthodox movement before being motzi laaz. Don’t worry, you still have 6 months until Yom Kippur to ask mechilah.
What is the source for metzitzah bapeh? The Gemara only says metzitzah. Other than tradition, why isn’t metztzah bakli good enough to fulfill the mandate of metzitzah? Is it possible that the only reason metzitzah bapeh was practiced was because there was no kli good enough, but if you had a kli that could get the same results, then it would be just as good as metzitzah bapeh (and possibly better if it carries less health risks)?
1. I don’t know which “most poskim” you are referring to, but the S”A is not among that group.
2. Don’t count Rishonim on your list of poskim.
3. You lose credibility when one of the “poskim” on your list who agrees with the Ran, is the Ran.
4. If the government of Israel is a “malchus shel risha’a”, so would every other government in the world. They are no worse to the Charedim then anyone else, and they are probably better because they give more money to them than any other government would.
1. I don’t know which “most poskim” you are referring to, but the S”A is not among that group.
2. Don’t count Rishonim on your list of poskim.
3. You lose credibility when one of the “poskim” on your list who agrees with the Ran, is the Ran.
4. If the government of Israel is a “malchus shel risha’a”, so would every other government in the world. They are no worse to the Charedim then anyone else, and they are probably better because they give more money to them than any other government would.
For the record- people who bash MO don’t really understand it. The MO’s that aren’t shomrei halachah, aren’t really MO- they just claim to be. The difference between MO and Yeshvish is how much involvement in the secular world is ideal. Please don’t take the people who aren’t tzniyus, who don’t follow halacha and don’t learn Torah as Representative of MO.
Chazal say that HKBH took BY out of Egypt through the Yam Suf on 12 different paths. Chazal also say that the walls separating them were see through. One has to be able to understand that there are multiple paths to G-d, and we must be able to see each other and accept each other.
Smoking is just as assur as eating fish and meat together (if not more). Sakanah chamira mei’isura,
Is a person a rasha? Depends on his intention. If his intention is because he thinks this tradition is archaic and disgusting, then I would lean more towards yes. If the reason is because he believes it’s a sakanah and that any mohel could inadvertently harm the baby, then no.
On a side note, what is the source for metzitzah bapeh? The Gemara only says metzitzah. Other than tradition, why isn’t metztzah bakli good enough to fulfill the mandate of metzitzah?
Hershi- still didn’t answer my question. Why do they receive sechar for doing something that leads to tiflus?
hershi- so according to the S”A (and I don’t think anyone argues on the S”A) the women receive schar for engaging in something that leads to tiflus?
I still don’t understand why people are arguing this. The S”A is clear- women receive schar for learning. How could this be a bad thing? Why would one receive schar for doing the wrong thing? Why do we assume that any woman who wants to learn Torah is doing it for feminist reasons? What happened to dan lekaf zechus? If a woman has spare time, learning Torah is the best way to spend that time (as long as it’s not coming at the expense of Torah she is chayav in, and as long as it’s not for lo lishmah/feminist reasons).
By willingly, I mean lishmah.
Sushe- S”A actually says that women receive schar for learning Torah but a father who teaches it to his daughter it’s as if he taught her tifuls. As I have mentioned before, if the S”A was against women learning Torah, then they wouldn’t receive a reward for learning it. S”A probably means it’s tifuls if you force it on a woman who is not receptive to it. But if she’s doing it willingly, then it’s not tiflus, but deserving of reward.
tzaddiq- for millenia blacks, women, the mentally and physically disabled, and others were mistreated. Does that mean that it’s innately moral and ethical to discriminate against those people?
Besalel- You say good, but say better. Tuition should be on the tzibur (at least the tzibur that attends that school). Tuition should not be a bill but a tax. It should be percentage of your income no matter how much you make, there is no dollar amount for tuition. The more your income, the more you pay in tuition.
GAW- +1
Too many people abuse local yeshivos by taking scholarships. I heard a story of someone with a $150,000 a year salary applying for scholarship because “why not?” Other stories of people lying about vacations and summer homes to schools so that they can take scholarships. Tuition is a bill like anything else and needs to paid in full. Yeshivos happen to want everyone to get a Torah education (as opposed to the electric company who couldn’t care less if you get electricity if you don’t pay in full) so they offer scholarships. Too many people take what they don’t need and the yeshivos suffer.
A wife’s consent is not enough for a husband to learn in kollel, one must take into account the children. How do you know they are okay living in poverty-like conditions for the sake of Torah? Who said they are okay with their mother working full time and not spending time at home for the sake of Torah?
The status quo for every Jew should be to move to Eretz Yisroel unless there is a compelling reason to stay in Chutz LaAretz, and not the other way around
All Ashkenazim (including Israelis) should at least learn and daven (if not speak) with havara Ashkenazis (when speaking Hebrew or Aramaic).
All Jews (including the Ashkenazic Yeshivish) should at least learn and daven (if not speak) with the emphasis on the correct syllables (when speaking any language especially Hebrew and Aramaic).
And I don’t think schools should be teaching talmidim to speak Hebrew with “oy” instead of “oh” because (to the best of my knowledge) that’s not correct according to any havarah.
People need to refer to President Obama with more respect as he is our leader, even if we disagree with many of his policies.
Whether the establishment of Medinas Yisroel violated the 3 Shvuos is irrelevant. We have to have an attitude of hakaras hatov as the Medinah is the shaliach of HKBH which enables there to be more Torah and Jews in Eretz Yisroel since possibly the fall of Beitar.
ZK- I agree that ideally every person should be learning. However, it becomes a problem when there are people who don’t learn so seriously who are getting paid to learn. They are taking money from people who expect their money to go towards serious learners, and they are taking money away from people who are serious learners.
It’s also a problem when children expect parents and in laws to support them in learning, and when parents and in laws feel pressure to support their children in learning. Parents have a right to take their hard earned money and use it for themselves (and maybe even retire early to learn). If a child wants to sit and learn, they should be prepared to live on bread and water, and make sure your wife and kids are okay with that. Every penny given to them is a gift.
It’s a problem when guys sit and learn for a few years without thinking about a career, and then a few years down the line when they need money, they have no way to earn it.
It’s a problem when women (even willingly) are “forced” to work full time to support their families when the father is learning, when the real role of the mother is to raise their families. Better to have a full time working father and a full time mother wife or a part time working part time learning father and a part time working part time mother wife, then a full time learning husband and a full time working wife with no mother in the family.