oomis

WHOA. Shouldn’t be here. I can adamantly oppose ANY non-halachic practice that I choose to. I may not be “anybody” at all, but that does not take away my bechirah chafshis. The Gedolim who practiced thus, took a foreign language (just as much as English is), and adopted it as the vernacular for Eastern European Jewry. That no longer makes Yiddish more choshuv than ANY language spoken by the majority of Jews in a large geographical area.

Most Jews in the USA, which is larger than Europe, if I am not grossly mistaken (which I could be – I was never good at geography), virtually ALL speak English, and most Yeshivahs that are not die-hard “teitchers,” learn in English/Aramaic. Most shiurim for adult males are given in English,except for the actual reading of the text. So by that very same logic English is at least as choshuv as Yiddish, which was only spoken for a few centuries (which btw, is as long as English has been spoken here, too).

Yes, the Gedolim are all tovim mimeni, but that does not mean that Yiddish is proper for naming a Jewish child, any more than French or Spanish would be (and there are many Western European Jews who cannot and never could speak a word of Yiddish – do you believe none of them learned Torah or never conversed in their own languages?). Stop being such a chauvinist. I have every right to my opinion, and you were very rude.

Pascha, never let ANYONE tell you what you know to be right for yourself. If the shadchan ONLY sees you with a “learning boy” then find another shadchan. Im ein kemach ein Torah. I commend you for your practicality. There are plenty of earners who make real time for learning as well. What on earth is wrong with us that this question is even an issue?

“If an Torah-observant person chooses not to join in, he should not have to make an excuse to less-observant people, if he’s not stopping anyone else from dancing. “

I happen to agree. And though this is OT, I feel the same way about Yiddishe mamas forcing guests (or event heir children) to eat when they are no longer hungry.

Dr. Pepper, you made some VERY salient points, which I had not considered. It is not that anyone wants to discriminate, it is that the nature of how even the nicest, middos-filled non-frum people comport themselves in terms of physical tznius, means that we can no longer assume that a BT is not a mamzer, or chalal, or even Jewish. It is so sad that we have to be so careful, but we do, for the sake of our future generations. If two Jews marry and divorce civilly only, then the wife remarries and has a child, that child is a mamzer. If a girl had an “active” life before marriage, then became frum, she might not realize she cannot marry a kohein. So many issues, and all of them seem so unfair to the person who genuinely wants to live a Torah life. And that is why our actions have such a profound impact on our kids.

Everything has to be done with seichel. The way I prepare my blech is as follows:

First the flames are turned as low as possible, one upper right and the other lower left sides. Then I put a perforated 1/2 in thick “simmer ring” over each burner, whether it is on or off. These rings are perforated metal discs that essentially distribute the heat of the burner so as to turn any pot over it into a double boiler. I put my blech over that, with tinfoil covering it, and the pots go on top of that, or over an upside down pan.The simmer rings allow the burned off gases to escape from under the blech. In 33 years B”H and bli ayin hara, I have never had a fire or carbon monoxide detector go off. Putting a metal blech directly over the burners with nothing intervening, might cause the blech to be so close to the fire that it can cause a buildup of carbon monoxide underneath. My blech and the rings underneath are raised, so there is good ventilation.

I never gave any of our children secular names. Loshon Kodosh is Loshon Kodosh. it is for that reason that I would likewise not give them Yiddish names, or use the name Alexander. If it is not L”K, it is not a Jewish name, but merely the name of some transliteration of a word from another language. “Hirsh” is “Tzvi” so why is anyone naming a child Hirsh (and why did the very first person to use Yiddish for a name, do so, rather than the Hebrew)?

This is a personal issue with me, because I adamantly oppose this practice. Only L”K (possible exception Aramaic) is truly authentic for Jewish names. Otherwise, why did Bnei Yisroel get such merit for not changing their names to the local vernacular in Egypt? Yiddish, just because it was a unifying language for Jews in Europe, is primarily German and a bissel Hebrew thrown in.

Now, ENGLISH is the great unifier, with more Torah being learned (thanks to Mr. Art Scroll), than ever before ANYWHERE. So maybe instead of Mendel ben Leibish, someone should name his child Matthew ben Lawrence. If you want to argue the point that great Rabbonim were named Yiddish names (the Kotzker for example), so for whom was HE named, and why, all the way back, did someone choose to use Yiddish rather than Hebrew? No one has ever given me an answer to this that makes any sense.

I’m surprised that no one has said they feel incomplete without a partner in life. “

That is basically what my first sentence was saying. When Hashem separated Man and Woman from each other, initially He created them together zochor u’nekaiva in one. Marriage, both spiritually and phsyically is a reuniting, a completion of that which has become incomplete.

“Oomis, it says so in Yeshaya Perek Gimmel,”

Thanks vey much, I will try to look it up ASAP. And to the person who basically called me an Apikorus…boy, do you not know me.

“I find it highly disturbing that you demand a source in nevuah for everything. The Gemora clearly states why Hashem destroyed the Bais Hamikdash – why isn’t that good enough for you? Do you not believe the Gemora?”

Why do you find it so disturbing that when a comment is made such as why the churban happened for a reason other than what I was taught my entire life (and it sounds like a comment made by someone who does not like women too much), that I would ask for a verifiable written source that I can ask my Rov about?

Does the Gemarah al Pi Hashem state the cosmetics issue as the reason, or was it the opinion of an Amora? There is a difference between saying Hashem said so, and a flesh and blood person THINKING it so. If you do not see the difference between the two concepts, there mamesh can be no honest dialogue here with you. I merely want to know if these are Hashem’s actual Words to us.

Don’t you think it is relevant, when 50% of the Jewish population is being accused that their actions of putting on makeup are so heinous so as to warrant the destruction of the Holy Temple? Don’t you also think that if this is in fact true (and I take your word for it that it is in the Gemarah, just like the story of Kimchis, btw, which is not halacha), that with ALL the tznius things that girls are being taught in BY, that they might have wanted to impress this notion on the girls, as well, so as to prevent them from using excessive cosmetics and bringing about more tzoros upon us? Please.

Instead of people reacting hysterically, why don’t they try being a little objective, and understanding what the question is, instead of accusing people of being chutzpahdig, apikorsim, ignorant, whatever it is that they think them to be, just because they ask a simple question. If I were not a frum woman, this would have possibly totally turned me off. If you are going to make statements that put women in a really bad light, then you SHOULD have the sources at hand that prove these are Hashem’s words. Amoraim and Tanaim disagree with each other all throughout the Gemarah.

I think it is to reunite the two halves of mankind that Hashem created at Briyas Haolam. I also believe that marriage is the ultimate chessed that Hashem does for us, and that husband and wife do for each other, with the purpose in mind of building a loving Torah-filled bayis ne’eman and hopefully bring continuity to klal Yisroel through having children, who in turn will do the same.

Kapusta, your post puts me in mind of why I am so glad we have an eruv. My feeling is that there are Jews all over who are not shomrei Torah u’mitzvos. Maybe they are mechallelei Shabbos every week. But if there is an eruv in their city, at least they are committing one less aveira, even if it is unwittingly.

“Huh? Who’s doing that? Care to name even one instance of this happening?”

Excuse me, have you even been reading the posts in the CR? Virtually every five minutes someone else is blaming women’s lack of tznius for every evil that befalls klal Yisroel. We were even quoted the Gemarah that women’s excessive use of cosmetics (and not only, as I was taught all my life, sinas chinam) was responsible for the CHURBAN.

MW13 would like me to take this issue up with Hashem. Did Hashem say it was because of women’s excessive cosmetics that He was destroying the B”HM? If so, show me the EXACT source that says ther nevuah that these were HIS words and not conjecture on the part of someone who felt women wore too much makeup, and please direct me to all the miforshim on the subject, and I will not say another word.

“1. Why ISN’T it permissible to attend the simcha? Just avoid the sanctuary, which is where we’re forbidden to go, not necessarily the simcha room. I know of many Orthodox couples who in years past got married in conservative shuls. It was commonplace up until the ’90’s “

Realistically, it is only a “Conservative Sanctuary” when men and women are physically davening together in it. At a chasunah, that is highly unlikely to happen, and it really is no different from any other shul in that moment. Is it assur to daven in a Conservative Shul when there are NO women present?

i just like playing devil’s advocate. 🙂

And you do it SO well!!!! 🙂

Lipstick really is not the issue for me – it’s mroe a case of men (and maybe it was only one man, I don’t know Gemarah)whose opinion it is that women wear too much makeup. But to say the Beis Hamikdash was DESTROYED and we went into exile for that – well, I cannot accept that. If you want to say that women were not tzniusdig,there are many women who wear NO makeup at all who are extremely untzniusdig (ever hear of Woodstock???). I believe with all my heart that the RS”O wants us to follow His laws, to bring about a tikkun olam. I believe that so many of those laws specify actions between Man and Man, because those actions (and not which chassidishe shechitah you follow, or whether or not you wear a black hat, or if women wear cosmetics)are the ones which affect whether or not we are worthy to see Bayis Shlishi.

People on this forum may disagree with me, as is their right, but sof kol sof, the B”HM was destroyed PRIMARILY because of people’s unmenschlech interactions with each other. And for all the men who want to lay the tragedies of the world at the feet of women, perhaps they should look at themselves as well, and see who it is in the vast majority, who is cheating each other in business, cheating on their taxes. Probably not the women. OK, my rant is done. For now. 🙂

“For one example, one of my in-laws, A”H, once got annoyed with me, in the middle of the year of Avaylus for one of my parents, A”H, because I wouldn’t attend the in-law’s non-Frum sibling’s 70th birthday party with music and mixed dancing in the basement of a Reform temple. “

This happened to me, too, and it was very awkward, to say the least, but we explained to the best of our ability why I could not go with my husband.

Even more difficult was the time I invited a very close family member of my husband to our home for a special dinner, and he went on and on on how stupid we were not to even TRY lobster, as it was SO good. I told him that even if my religious beliefs did not forbid it, I would never put something that looks like a giant cockroach in my mouth, but that it made no difference, it was forbidden by Jewish law. Period. I never invited him over again, btw.

“I also believe that Rabbeinu Gershom himself put an expiration date on the Cherem. Either it was the year 5,000 or 1,000 years from the date he implemented it. In either case, it would have passed already. “

Correct.

“if he had gone into EY, then he would have built the BHMK and it couldn’t have been destroyed (or am I confusing this with “

I learned that, too. And on that note, Everyone have a good kvitel.

“The Gemorah in Shabbos 62b says that a reason for the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash was women used excessive cosmetics,”

And here I was thinking all these years that is was because of sinas chinam! Or were Kamtza and Bar Kamtza women…?

My HELPFUL answer about this question is to layer your makeup very carefully before yom tov, put concealer on, then, makeup foundation, then powder to set it. For eyes, use a cream-based shadow, then powder in the same color over it (a couple of layers, and use a neutral shade), then there is a lash-tint by Revlon (I think) that stays on a couple of days, and liner should be layered on a few times. The first night will look overly-done maybe, but it will wear away. And if you CAN sleep face up (I can’t), it will stay on longer. Blush should also be cream, then blush powder and loose powder over all. For lips, use a good lipliner to actually color in your lips, then a long-lasting liptint or CoverGirl Outlast type lip color over that, followed by lipstick. Try to eat carefully. Best to use as neutral a color as looks good on you.

All of this preferably should be decided between the future machetonim BEFORE the engagement, in fact it might not be a bad idea if the shadchan can find out what each side is thinking along these lines, before the shidduch goes through.

We did 50-50 in both our weddings – one son and one daughter – at the machetonims’ suggestions, and so far it seems that the idea is accepted as such as the FLOP(S) idea. When we cheshboned it out, it came to approximately the same expenses whether we had split the costs or done FLOPS.

it used to be that the girl’s side paid exclusively for the hall, but that is no longer the only option.

“This is a very harsh statement, and it’s a gross generalization. I know plenty of frum people with non-frum family, and they get along quite well. My own in-laws, who are not frum, keep extra sets of kosher dishes in their basement cabinets for when we would visit. They never watched TV [publicly] when we stayed for Shabbat, nor did they travel anywhere or use the phone. *They* made the adjustments, and we managed quite well. “

Mameshtakeh, I don’t know how recently you joined the CR, but I have often posted about my in-laws int he past. They were AMAZING, wonderful people, with middos that the frummest of the frum would do well to emulate. BUT, when it came to certain inyanim, as I mentioned, i.e. the intermarriage of a close family member, whose wedding we would not attend, they would not accept our decision, and there was a terrible breach with several family members for a long time, until a close family member died. They wanted all the compromise to be on OUR part, but they wouldn’t respect OUR religious needs. That is very often the case when one side of the family is not frum. The frummies get called “religious fanatics” on a regular basis (we were, for not attending a JEWISH wedding in my husband’s family during the Nine Days (it was not my in-laws who called us that, but the mother of the bride had a few choice words for us).

My wonderful in-laws kept plastic goods (I would not have washed a dish in their sink) for us for whenever we came to visit. There was no question of being able to spend a Shabbos by them, though I am glad you were able to work that out with your in-laws. The system always works – until it doesn’t. For 15 years there was never a machlokess with us about anything, and then relative of my husband’s married a goy, and all the understanding flew out the window. These are real issues that need to be addressed and NOT dismissed as “harsh statements.” I have been there for 33 years and I know whereof I speak. And I am one of the LUCKY ones.

My in-laws were very supportive of my husband becoming frum,and were proud of him. But as I said, the frumkeit did not signify enough to my shver to be present at his grandson’s graduation when he was receiving a special choshuv Limudei Kodesh award, because his granddaughter was having a first birthday party, at which she was completely unaware that her grandfather was even there. My son, however, was acutely aware that his only living grandfather (my parents and mother-in-law had passed away before then) did not deem his Yeshivah graduation on par with a family birthday party. We got through those times, but I would not want my own children to face that type of situation, though I would not sof kol sof prevent them from marrying the children of B”T or even a B”T. I just know the pitfalls that are bound to arise (in spite of what you personally experienced, which is the rarity).

“Any FFB parent that is not interested in a Balei Teshuva boy/ girl for their child is nothing more than a snob! “

I think that statement is a little harsh. You cannot force anyone to accept a shidduch. Even when the parents are both frum BT, the homes they grew up in DO have an impact on them. I had wonderful in-laws, whom I loved dearly, and who loved me the same. But as soon as there was a conflict of a religious nature in the family, they sided with the irreligious relatives. They kept saying, why can we not understand THEIR point of view. To which I replied, WHY can YOU not understand OUR point of view the same way you want us to understand and accept YOURS? It NEVER works that way. The non-frum always expect the frum to make the adjustment.

As I said earlier, it is hard enough making marriage work when you do not have these pressures. Many people simply do not want their kids to have frei grandparents. And we cannot fault the people who feel that way. it is not so glatt an issue as some would like to think. And I have the right to say that – I live that life, and had to work VERY hard to make it work. When my father-in-law thought it was more important to go to his (frei) granddaughter’s first birthday party, rather than to my son’s graduation when he was getting an award for excellence in Limudei Kodesh, I understood that no one has the right to judge someone else’s feelings on this subject.

I married a BT, and I can tell you from my own experience, that you should not judge those who are leery. I wouldn;tt rade my husband for ANYONE, but there ARE problems inherent in the family dynamic, and some people feel that marriage under the best of circumstances is a challenge, so why add tension to the mix? When one side of the family is not frum, it creates a lot of stress when simchas come up. In the non-religious family, we had a situation where a close family member married a goy, and we were not forgiven for not attending the wedding. It took the death of a family member to heal the breach. It is also stressful that you can only visit one side for Shabbos and Yom Tov. The non-frum fo not “get” you and think you are always being a fanatic for simply keeping kosher. “Why CAN’T you eat with us at the diner? We’ll just have DAIRY!”

You would think that a generation away from that, people would not be so worried, when both baalei teshuvah’s kids are frum from birth. But even that is not “good enough” for some, because they have it drummed into them to marry the daughter of a talmid chochom, and the father of the boy does not want an am haaretz for a mechutan (not my words, and an unfair assumption for the boy’s father to make about the potential mechutan, though at times it is 100% true).

“I dont think so. Rude people will be rude whether they had cell phones or not. Lack of etiquette isnt an invention that came along with the cell phone. “

No, I respectfully disagree. The cellphone gives them a venue to be completely oblivious to the rest of the world around them.

To answer Health about the doctor who spoke in public – I did want to say something to him and I should have, but he was not getting off the phone, and I did not want his patient to be embarrassed to know that I had overheard the conversation. the doctor left the pizza place still talking on the phone.

WIY, c’mon – it was funny, and it wasn’t aimed at anyone IRL.

As to what goes on “out there,” at simchas, I doubt much of anything is going on except for people being m’sameach with the baalei simcha.

I remember that hurricane, though I thought it was moer like 20-25 years ago. It was erev yom tov, and we raced home from my parents (where we were staying for succos) during the eye of the hurricane when it was sunny and pleasant, to tape our windows. My dad O”H put their wooden succah together, and it stayed up beautifully. The rain and wind did no damage at all.

I love succos, but I do NOT love bees, wasps, hornets, yellow jackets, whatever they are. If they sting, I will kill them. it happens my husband is deathly allergic to bee/wasp venom. A sting will cause him to swell up, and two will potentially put him in the hospital. So I tale great pains every year top put up bee traps all over the yard, far from the succah, and one relatively close by, just in case some decide to come close to us as we are eating. Despite my best precautions, one year two or three wasps got into the succah. As we were all panicking, I was hitting at them with a plastic plate (managed to get two of them, that were just not flying out), and my husband stayed my hand and said, “Don’t kill an insect on Yom Tov!” I glared at him, and the very next instant he was badly stung by the one he prevented me from hitting. Fortunately, we had Benadryl, so he only experienced a very swollen hand (the same one he used to stop me), and a great deal of discomfort from the sting for the rest of the day.

Lest anyone think of me as a mechallel yom tov bug-killer, I spoke to the Rov about what happened, and he told me he would have done the same thing in those circumstances. You don’t mess with allergic reactions to insects – it’s sakanas nefashos. But, you better not MISS!

My really best succah story, though, is my first succos after becoming a Bubby, and realizing I had taken over my late parents’ tafkid, especially my mom’s, who made the best stuffed cabbage and pickled fish EVER!