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Do you read the Hebrew Mishpacha”
No, do you? Is it not supposed to be that what we get here is the English translation?
oomis: Sure it is assur to go to the secular courts even if it “involves secular laws”. Besides, halacha tells us who should have custody, halacha tells us how to split the assets, and it is prohibited according to halacha to use non-Jewish laws on these matters instead of basing the decision on how Jewish law/halacha rules on these matters. “
When there are issues of abusive relationships, the secular courts WILL be involved, whether the yidden involved want them to or not. Dina d’malchusah dina. But I understand what you and others have said.
It is not assur to go to the secular courts when the fight involves secular laws. The Beis Din does not enforce who gets custody of the kids, or visitation rights. That is determined by the secular judge. We all have to answer to the law of the land.
Yichusdik, I am so sorry for your tzaar, but I am really impressed with the maturity of how you handled this. Your kids will be the primary beneficiaries of your seicheldig and responsible behavior.
Pink, I am sure you want more than just someone who is not disrespectful of women. Granted that is important, but there are other things that are equally important. Is he a good person, can he provide for you, is he mature enough to be able to handle the inevitable ups and downs in a relationship? Will he make a good father someday, is he a responsible person? How does he get along with his parents and siblings? Etc. etc.
I am still confused. What caused the ban l’chatchilah? I have never seen anything offensive in Mishpacha.
MDD, with all due respect to you, the Torah specifically says that if a man finds something unseemly in his wife, (and the Gemarah goes so far as to say even if she burns his meals), he should give her a sefer kritut, a GET. That most certainly is a mitzvas asei.
It is not a mitzvah to WANT to divorce, but once that marriage is emotionally and physically over, it is a mitzvah to give her a Get, so she is free to marry someone else if she so desires. E.g. al pi Torah, it is an aveirah to withhhold it, and a man who does so is intransigent and a rasha, even if he is a “nice guy.” He may feel he has very solid reasons for doing so, but that is for a court fight, NOT a GET fight. IMO, men who look for reasons to withhold a GET, even from the most obnoxious, disgusting, shrew of a wife, are doing it out of revenge. It certainly is not consistent with Torah observance. The fact that a woman may in some circumstances demand a GET has not made it easier for women to get one from the husbands who really don’t care about what the Torah actually mandates in these circumstances. Many men are also having problems with women who refuse to accept and use the kids as leverage. That is sad and tragic, but the GET should not be a tool in this. Go to the secular courts and fight for your rights, but give a GET when one is supposed to be given.
I read Mishpacha, and I would love to know where they are off the Jewish track.
The issue is not of whether or not there is another side to the story. It is a mitzvah to give a Get when a marriage is over, and a man who deliberately withholds it is oveir on a Mitzvas Asei. To withhold it to blackmail his wife is even worse.If he suspects she is molesting the kids, or cheating on him, or doing any of a number of bad things, let him take her to civil court and fight for custody. But one thing should not preclude the other. IMO.
And thank you Oomis for the example regarding your son on dates. This will open my eyes more to acknowledging the effort that boys put when it comes to planning the date, and so much more. “
Photogenic, I appreciate your acknowledgment of this, but somehow I sense that you are probably already doing the right thing.
Yiddishe Kup, that was a very good moshol, and made a truly salient point.
Wolf, you would pick arsenic. But would it be with or without old lace. (10 points for someone who gets the obscure reference of the day)
I get the points. It’s one of my favorite movies. “
I did, too. It goes even better with Cary Grant.
Thank you, the.nurse.
Seriously? I don’t believe it.
She may have to send her kids to another Yeshivah that will be more willing to work with her. I have been there (in terms of my husband and I not being able to afford the tuition), so I know how painful it is for ANY parent. Kal V’chomer for a single mother trying to what’s best for her kids. Her ex has a legal obligation al pi halacha to give his kids a Torah education, as well as additional secular obligations to provide child support. So I wish her hatzlacha in putting legal pressure on him to do the right thing.
Sam, while you are right about it not helping to make someone feel better by pointing out worse things that happen, the thread is called wedding HORROR stories. Getting a dress soiled and spraining an ankle are awful, to be sure, but not horrifying incidents at a wedding. Things happen like that all the time, we learn to laugh, get over it (as I am sure Cinderella did), and hope the next time is better. There is little recovery however, from the truly horrifying things that can happen, as was pointed out. May that soiled dress and bad ankle be mamesh the worst thing that Cinderella experiences in life.
My son has been in the dating parsha for a couple of years. Across the board, the number one complaint (maybe the only complaint I have ever heard him express about any girl he has dated) is their failure to express a simple thank you. He does not believe in going to lounges, and puts a great deal of thought into planning a date where they can get something to eat and be able to talk and get to know each other. He tries to arrange for interesting activities, and is very solicitous of their having a pleasant time. One of the girls with whom he was set up was the ONLY one to express her appreciation for his obvious thoughtfulness. Though it ultimately did not work out for hashkafic reasons, he liked her very much for showing this middah.
There is no excuse for the inability to be makir tov. It is NOT something that goes without saying, it has to be expressed. Hashem knows exactly what we are thinking 24/7, yet we start each morning off with MODEH ANI. It is a foundation of our character. If we cannot be makir tov to other people for the obvious things they do for us and of which we are fully aware, how can we properly be makir tov to Hakodosh Boruch Hu for the million and one things He does for us all the time, that we take for granted?
still pistachio
I heard from someone who has relatives in Beit Shemesh that there was in fact such a spitter. What is the difference? Do you think this has not happened before when it was NOT reported?
Silent One, this is a real tragedy. we often forget that men also suffer when a divorce becomes a reality, because we focus so much on the women. I am sorry for your pain and for the depression that played a role in causing it. I wish you happier times.
If you have peyos covering your ears during prayer, then the “Heavenly Ear” will not hear your tefillos. This is what i read in the cr on another thread. I could be wrong, though.
I could see that if you have your ears covered, that YOU might not hear the “Heavenly Voice” telling you not to talk during davening or some other warning, but to imply that HASHEM kivyachol will not hear YOU at ANY time, much less when YOUR ears are covered, sounds a little off, IMO. Is this in a Gemarah anywhere?
Or look for another place with no rock, or try to get through anyway, it will make you stronger if you succeed.
MP, you said it best.
I was at a wedding once where the father of the Kalla collpased at the Mitzvah Tantz and died of a heart attack on the spot!”
This happened to a former neighbor of mine. Her father was niftar suddenly right after the chuppah. It unfortunately does happen R”L, and there are worse things, like the bride and groom who were killed in a car crash driving to their reception (held in a different place from the ceremony).
Worse yet was the Kallah in E”Y who was killed by a homicide bomber the day before her wedding was to take place (was her name Nava Appelbaum O”H?)as she sat with her father at a cafe having some quality father-daughter time.
Kind of puts the messed up dress issue in perspective. Sorry you injured your ankle, though. My husband did that at our son’s wedding. Refuah shelaima.
When that spitter is of the caliber of a Pinchas ben Elazar Hakohein, Yehoshua bin Nun, or any of the Chashmonaim, we’ll talk again. Until then, he is a real bulvan and deserves to be tossed in jail for assault on a minor female child.
On the other hand, regarding what I wrote, I was rethinking this over, and realized that you’d be sending an indirect message to them that you want to get closer and welcome a part of them into a part of your lives”
I have given gifts to MANY people to whom I have no reason or wish to be closer in other than a professional way(my kids’ teachers or rebbeim, my mailman, the wait staff whom I tip, etc.) Gift does not = welcome into my personal life. It is ALWAYS a good policy to be on cordial terms with one’s neighbors, and that does not mean you must have them over for dinner.
Remember the story from the Holocaust of the frum yid whose life was saved because he always said good morning to his German (Nazi) neighbor. When that neighbor was sending people to the right or to the left, the yid recognized him and say good morning to him as he had always done. The nazi sent him to life and not to the gas chamber.
But she would be if she saw a Rebbetzin engage in this nivalah.”
And your proof that this is a “nevalah?”
This question was a general one, having nothing to do with Shabbos speicifically. The bottom line is that jeans are more appropriate for some types of casual activities and work situations, and suit pants are more appropriate for other types of activities and work situations, We should not be negatively judging people altogether, but especially not to judge their frumkeit based on whether or not they choose to wear denim clothing. That is very elitist, IMO. And to imply or state outright that someone who does wear such material somehow needs to do teshuvah or is not worthy to ever be a rov, is beyond absurd. With the cost of jeans way higher than most of the “elegant” things I purchase to wear, it is foolish to think of them as cheap clothing.
It is a made up holiday, so they do not feel left out of the seasonal spirit. If it causes them to be more menschlech, go for it!
Both Midwesterner and Toi have the proper quotes to which I was referring. Eats, Shoots, and Leaves IS a book which illustrates the point well, and Toi’s sentence is the one about which I was thinking.
Oomis – the opposite; if we stand to gain then it’s not chinam. Otherwise it is. “
We stand to gain? By showing we are normal, decent people? We are not falsely flattering them by giving a small gift on the occasion of their baby’s birth. Especially if other neighbors were to give gifts, we would look really cheap, which feeds right into the negative stereotype the world has of Jews. Since we must live with our neighbors, it behooves us to behave in a neighborly way. That includes giving small gifts on occasion.
You may copy what you own to have more than one copy available, but you may not copy it in order to sell it to someone else without the express written permission of the person who owns the rights to it (and who would be foolish enough to give such permission, when they are trying to make a parnassah selling their music?).
I cannot recall the sentence, but there is actually a sentence that proves this idea. When not punctuated correctly, it means the exact opposite of what it intends to convey. If someone reacalls what this sentence might be, it is a terrific example of why good grammar and punctuation are not obsolete.
IMO no one should buy a Borsalino, davka because of its price. There are plenty of black hats around. It is no different from condemning some women for only wanting to wear designer clothing (and don’t say it is different, because it is part of the “levush” as there is absolutely no justification for levush that includes such an outrageously priced head covering, as being de regeur, when there are way less expensive hats that make a yeshivah bochur look equally yeshivish).
Says me – spot on!
ILTHL – my pleasure; we are all in this together.
I would point out that a good exercise workout probably does MORE for tznius, because it enables women OR men to get rid of their excess energy and channel it into a healthy activity.
Well, there are certain aveiros you can never do teshuva for. “
Yes, they are called yeihareig v’al ya’avor.
Presumably, that person believes that wearing jeans is one of those aveiros that you can’t do teshuva for.”
MORE to the point, that person believes that wearing jeans is an aveira for which one MUST do teshuvah.
That reminds me of a Henny Youngman joke. “My wife says to me, ‘I want you to take me somewhere I’ve never been before.’ So I took her to the kitchen.”
The guy who did the spitting, did something very untzniusdig, as well as disgusting. He could actually be accused of assault.
Maybe he meant too emotional or needy, giggly, or flighty. He didn’t say too feminine, he said girly.
It has nothing to do with giving a gift chinam. They had a baby, there is a reason to gift them. It is nice to acknowledge their joyous occasion. You are not trying to bribe them or buy their good graces. You are simply being a real mensch.
If they are good neighbors, BE a good neighbor. Would you buy it if they were Christians? it doesn’t have to be an expensive gift, just a little tchotchkeh.
You work together to build a bayis ne’eman b’Yisroel. It is not always easy, but you put in your maximum effort to see maximum rewards.
Thanks for the chizuk. It is not easy for me, as even when I was watching my weight NOT for diabetic reasons, by eating low-calorie and low-fat healthy foods, I was still eating a lot of fruit, controlled portions of pasta, etc. and I cannot eat much of that now because I have to watch my sugar count. SOOOOOO, I am primarily eating controlled amounts of low glycemic index complex carbs,i.e., sweet potato rather than white potato, brown rice, not white, whole wheat bread (I save my whole wheat consumption for challah on Shabbos, and get 100% whole wheat). These little changes have added up to a BIG change for me. I look better, feel better, the sugar is stablizing, and I can walk much better as well.
I am also drinking plenty of water, eating a lot of salads or steamed green vegetables and low-fat proteins, including plain fat-free Greek yogurt with some fresh blueberries or a little Splenda, chicken, and fish. When you cut down your food intake, after a few weeks, you really cannot eat the way you used to. The body doesn’t want as much food as it used to take in. I am satisfied with much less, and I no longer crave certain food items that were bad for me, like fried chicken or pizza. I really did not believe that would ever happen, but it did. B”H for that.
What helps the most is the support I get from my family and friends who constantly remind me how great I am doing. It gives me tremendous chizuk. I had to do something to prevent myself from succumbing to the various conditions that diabetes can cause. If anyone here is pre-diabetic, please take my words to heart, get checked out by your doctor, and proactively take steps to try to reverse the condition through diet changes and exercise (even just walking every day). Very often it can be done. I am hoping to reverse my actual Type 2 diabetes.
If a Rav did ever wear jeans in his life, then he shouldn’t be a Rav! “
That statement is just plain hyperbole. Do you really believe that?????? As to the “defense” that people do teshuvah – HUH???? One must do teshuvah because he wore JEANS???? Please!!!!
Considering how expensive some jeans are today, I would put them on par with most suit pants. 🙂
Seriously, I try not to judge people by what they are wearing, but sometimes you can’t help it, because what they wear is not appropriate to the time or place, and one hopesd and expects that a frum person will show seichel and sensitivity. Jeans are great on a picnic (just as I believe it is inappropriate to wear suit pants on such an occasion), but they don’t belong on Shabbos at Shul or at a simcha, unless it’s at a BBQ. I don’t think that people who wear jeans, though, are not frum. Neither is every guy who wears suit pants frum, either.
Well-said, Middle Path.
OK RB, whatever you say. When you argue simply for the sake of arguing, and the point you are trying to make is pointLESS (and I suspect you actually DO see that, but you just like to yank our chains), it’s best when the other party stops feeding into it. This is me, stopping. Chag sameach.