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akuperma, the IDF protects in the manner of the hishtadlus that we are commanded to perform. As for the “whole idea of an army,” the name of this army belies what you say (“to have a war with the Yismaelim” [sic]). So does its conduct, which leans toward defensiveness even when something more offensive seems warranted. Finally, bodycount calculus is a cheap and usually a fallacious way to determine right and wrong in conflicts. In your case, it seems mistaken: Israel has lost around 25,000 r”l in all forms of Arab violence, and that sets the count at around 19 per year over your 1,300-year benchmark.
Avira, a quick swing with Google finds many gedolim identifying many enemies of the Jews as Amalek’s seed: the Xians, the Tsar, Kaiser Wilhelm, the Nazis…. Targeting the Palestinians collectively and preaching hands-on violence against them on Amalek’s seed grounds is something I’ve encountered only in Kahanism. As for Rav Chaim Brisker, it would be interesting to see a source in which he identifies Jews as Amalek’s seed and advocates direct violence against them.
And for Milhouse: the Army told him to prepare because the Army tells its reservists to prepare. By the way, Goldstein was killed when one of the Arabs threw a fire extinguisher at him when his (Goldstein’s) weapon jammed. No hatchets. Probably no weapons of any kind, because the hall where this happened was also used by Jews on a daily basis.
I am posting with an account that I asked the editors to delete. It’s hashgaha that they didn’t. I knew Goldstein rather well and he may have thought of me as a friend. Until he did what he did, my family and I joked about him, calling him “Dr. Kach” for his Kahanist fanaticism. Avira is spot-on. Goldstein snapped a month or so before the mass murder he committed; it was then that two dear friends of his died in his arms after being gunned down by Palestinian terrorists. As for Me’arat Hamachpela, its floor is made of flagstones, each probably as heavy as a person. No weapons can be stashed under them, let alone under thin rungs. No one in Goldstein’s position, as a captain in the IDF medical corps, could have exclusive knowledge of an impending massacre of Jews, to which the army refuses to respond. But someone with hard-core Kahanist views would regard a mass of Palestinian Arabs as targets for slaughter, because in Kahanist thought the seed of Amalek manifests anew in Israel’s enemies of each generation, in this case the Palestinians. And there’s no better time to observe the mitzva of obliterating the memory of Amalek than Purim. Allow me to anticipate another argument: that Goldstein had heard the Arabs chanting “slaughter the Jews” at the Me’ara the previous evening, where he had gone to hear the megillah. No. He heard the megillah in a small shul in Kiryat Arba, sitting with two of his sons about eight feet away from me.
Ifti and others, we are not joining their army because the gedolim instruct that it’s against the Torah. That is quite enough.
Dear Shadchen, Am Yisrael already answered this problem: husbands learn. Wives raise children. The kallo’s parents pay. No exceptions. No difference between metziyonim and others in any of this. It has worked for 3500 years.
Talmud said only the least of it. Try to play a sport without being over on most or all of the following:
Bittul zman
Bittul Torah
Taroves
Chukos hagoyim
Kemaase ha’emori
Chilul Hashem
…etc.etc.
oomis, the system is approved by the gedolim and if that isn’t enough to end the discussion, please also remember that “dating” is based on talking between genders, which everywhere else is assur. It is allowed in shidduchim only because it makes possible the mitzvah of pru urvu and the continuation of the Jewish people. Otherwise, where’s the heter for kosher yungerleit to go to hotel lobbies, sports places, restaurants etc?
Finally someone tells truth about these treif devices.
Popa, “Naftush” is an RZ troll who doesn’t like imposed observance because he doesn’t like observance, period. He’s been chased off the forum several times for it.
Takes one to know one.
Learning supports Jews. Serving in the treif army supports the medina and the chilonim. Working in the medinas economy does much the same. It’s not a matter for personal choice. Generations of gedolim are on record about it. I didn’t join their army and my children and all kosher children won’t either. Those who are tempted by the “adventure” and the promise of being allowed to work are giving into the yetzer r”l.
I heard it described as the goyim’s equivalent of “Torah be-lo bracha” lehavdil. It all has church inputs.
Lapid, if we won, then you lost. Start by shutting down your theaters and circuses. Tear down your stadiums. Cancel your culture budgets. Replace your malls with batei medresh and your parking lots with yeshiva dormitories. Restore the kollel stipends. Not willing? Then you don’t really believe that we won. Go back and enjoy your life for a few more years until demography catches up and then you’ll see who won.
It is all tainted with church origins and to know it well requires huge bittul Torah and bittul zman. The Mechaber had it right.
The very idea of Jews being inspired by goyish music, r”l. The mechaber had the right idea about music. Our mikdosh lies in ruins.
Exsoldier, waaah and the rest, the gedolim established the facts about the army as about all matters. There are other forums where opinions against the gedolim can be voiced r”l. This forum isn’t one of them.
OneOfMany, whatever you think I can’t stand in for your legendary “Joseph” but all commenters should “add something relevant to the subject at hand.” Here is something relevant about wearing IDF sweatshirts. As we sit here, that Cantonist organization is preparing to chap 3000 Jewish boys and some of us think it’s OK to wear its sweatshirt. That says all that needs to be said about “equal opportunity.”
How people dress does send a message. By wearing gray socks he’s saying that he’s willing to throw norms under a bus. The shadchan ought to straighten him out.
I asked a BT about sweatshirts and he told me that in high schools the best sports players give them to their “friends” who prance around in them to show off. This makes sweatshirts kli gever. They are not for a bas yisroel even when they are comfortable.
It is mindless and dangerous to wear such a thing. Mindless because “Tzahal” is the ultimate in untznius r”l. Dangerous because people are watching and there is a shidduch crisis.
After generations of gedolim have spoken in once voice on this issue, I do not understand why it’s being debated. What happened to kechol asher yorucho?
A ben Torah shouldn’t go to these things without a heter from his rov. These events are full of lifnei ivver, exploiting the sad fact that shuffling papers or tapping a keyboard pays better than keeping Torah.
DerechHamelech, Naftush is either a troll or an RZ who’s committed (or ought to be). His belief is that the world isn’t a place to serve Hashem as the gedolim said but a New Age self-discovery seminar where exposing yourself to sakana helps you grow. So by avoiding sakana we’re not really keeping mitzvos, they’re just “keeping themselves.” Therefore, it’s good to serve in the army and be in other treif places. He argued this way a few months ago and got kicked off the forum for it.
mdd, people go to these things without asking. There was a “parnosso fair” not long ago in Beis Shemesh by an organization of “new chareidim” r”l and plenty of avreichim took the bait, at least in showing up.
Goyim live by Hashem’s natural laws. They have no shidduch crisis in the same way that wild animals don’t. Yidden are metzuveh to different laws.
Jewishness and mdd, hate has nothing to do with it. Material temptations are being dangled in front of avreichim from all directions and the magic word “parnosso” doesn’t remove the danger, even with a haskomo. Anyone who feels a need to attend these things needs a heter from his rov.
Ask your rav first. Some of these things are run by anti-kollel types for treif motives.
Assuming this happened at all, the way to stop it is the way we stopped the assault on in Emanuel a year or so ago: a mass turnout led by Gedolim against the provocation of sending soldiers to gawk at the zoo animals. Until this happens, it will be dealt with by the few “extremists” who truly care.
Many of you are missing the point. Of course there is no avoiding taxes if you have an official (on the books) job. I work and pay taxes. But these Mafteach people set up camp in a learning tzibur and entice avreichim with the bait of a bigger paycheck. This, at a time when the chilonim are threatening to take them into the army, and they also use the lure of future parnosso. Whether they mean it or not, it makes Mafteach a machshir in shmad r”l. That’s worth a protest.
They keep you going 18 hours a day and brainwash you subtly with Zionism and modernity. It’s not for frum people.
Avreichim learn in order to sustain the world, so those who encourage them to leave are menaces to the whole tzibur. Leaving kollel has to beni done privately with guidance from one’s rebbe and tough investigation of the in-laws, not in a “job fair” run by people who think parnosso comes from them, not from Hashem r”l. As for the Zionist economy, if you’re paying taxes then you’re supporting chillul Shabbos, tarbus ra’a and all the rest. That’s what “Mafteach” is encouraging and the protesters are 100% right.
“Learning and earning” don’t go together. The rule is to aim for a talmid chacham, which plainly rules out the “earning” part. As for the rest, the shadchan needs to talk with your father about doing his share.
$40,000 would support a Torah family for two years. Where’s the heter to spend it on a watch?
The Chofetz Chaim assured fiction because it koshers loshon hora. Enough said.
Without a shadchan, the public aspects of whether they should marry can’t be checked out. So yes, we should be wary of the children of such a marriage.
torah613, sustainable is as sustainable does. The purchase price of every car parked on our streets could support a kollel family for a year at least. The cost of insuring and running the car would do it for another year. And that’s only the beginning. The cost of the fancy furniture and the vacations and the designer clothes and the retirement funds and all the rest.
20 year olds marry and do just fine if the parents take care of their end. The trouble begins when parents withhold Torah support and encourage girls and boys to “earn.” There is no shidduch crisis among the others.
Again we’re falling for the “verdict” of a goyish court reported by goyish media. I agree that the acts alleged shouldn’t be done but the answer is to get back to our proper standards of tznius, yichud etc., not to put a yid in jail because the goyim say so.
Health, no one wants to be depressed but who paskened that it’s Ossur? Even if someone did, did he also say that we can throw aside tznius, yichud, negiya and geder arayot for the cause of not being depressed?
Ask the mechaber.
Since when is it OK to work for a public school?
Much of this is because too many boys don’t meet the females’ standards (wanting to “earn”) and too many females’ parents don’t meet the males’ standards (kollel support / dira). Fix these problems and most of the crisis will go away.
Sheetos aside, due to our war against feminism it is important for only men to light. So said my mara deasra.
WIY is right. In our times, the sheetos against music should be upheld.
All these posts ignore the fact that we are at war with the non-frum and the feminists. Even where heters exist, they weren’t meant for our time and should not be used. That goes for any contact with treif “shuls,” let alone selling them anything, and for allowing klei kodesh who aren’t men, touching a sefer Torah, shochtim etc.
Health, the whole notion of letting people become therapists began so that inlaws wouldn’t have to provide kollel support. From there we’ve reached the point where we go to therapists as if they were doctors. Who says the heter that we use to go to a doctor applies to therapists at all? And of the opposite gender, when we’re trying desperately to enforce tznius?
takah, the system wouldn’t collapse if the inlaws support the learning husband as required. That would solve the driving problem, the going to college problem, etc. But no, that would get in the way of “retirement,” vacations, and all the rest.
takah, I base it on the first rule of tznius: don’t show yourself off in public.
What heter can there be to do therapy with a person who you cannot say hello to in the street, who we should rather die than shake hands with?
We are forgetting that the idea of letting our girls learn to be therapists was so they could support their husbands in learning, not that they should be doing yichud and violating tznius with strange men r”l. Shame on those parents.